Originally posted by thadarknite84
If Someone can see with their own eyes and predict an opponents next move, through instincts. Is not the same as entering someone mind to see what their next move is. Instincts and TP are not the same.
Originally posted by jinzin
So then do we also strip away any advantages in strength and speed that any character ever has over another in a h2h foum fight?
No, because those are physical attributes. The nature of TP has nothing to do with her ability to fight. And I don't think punching and kicking, will develop TP. Meditation is a more reasonable way to gain such an ability. If this was a real fight, nothing would be taken away, TP, utility belt etc. But when you place two people in h2h only contest. only their physical attributes and fighting skills, should determine the winner. TP is not in the same category as strength, speed, and stamina. In this situation, taking away Elektra's TP is no different than taking away Cyclops's Optic blast.
Originally posted by jinzin
In any case you're missing the point. The thread starter
specified that this be a hand to hand contest, the stipulation of no TP was never implied.
No, I'm not missing the point at all. You are. And it does, when the thread starter saids h2h only. What don't you understand? It seems that you don't want this to be a fair fight. And when you say comments like, Elektra will use "TP" to her "advantage" in a "h2h contest", stanks of spite and unfairness.
Originally posted by jinzin
When her Tp comes from her use of Martial Arts abilities.. well. 😬It's like how Shang Chi can amp himself and Iron Fist can use energy blasts.. it's a result of their training.
But you're right it really doesn't matter seeing how Elektra's strong enough to punch through plated bullet proof armor while passing out from getting tazed, fast enough to block machine gun fire, and good enough to 3 shot Bullseye and 2 shot taskmaster without her TP.
Thats a nice feat of Electra punching through bullet proof armor, it doesn't outdue Bruce's striking feats but still impressive none the less.
What issue is that if you know??
Originally posted by thadarknite84
No, because those are physical attributes. The nature of TP has nothing to do with her ability to fight. And I don't think punching and kicking, will develop TP. Meditation is a more reasonable way to gain such an ability. If this was a real fight, nothing would be taken away, TP, utility belt etc. But when you place two people in h2h only contest. only their physical attributes and fighting skills, should determine the winner. TP is not in the same category as strength, speed, and stamina. In this situation, taking away Elektra's TP is no different than taking away Cyclops's Optic blast.
This is a real fight, It's a hand to hand contest and the only stipulation implied into this contest was that there are no sais and no bat belt.
There are no stipulations that says she doesn't get Tp, and your own rationale discredits yourself as she has received TP from using her "lifeforce better".
Ummm actually it's a lot different. Cyclop's optic blast is the result of a mutation and was not recieved through the honing of his skills, Elektras is.
Originally posted by thadarknite84Oh I get it just fine, you're a bat fanboy who will do anything and employ any double standard you can to make Batman and everyone associated with him better than they really are, including ignoring rules, your own rationale and facts.
No, I'm not missing the point at all. You are.
Originally posted by jinzin
Her ability is strictly riciprocated in her fighting ability. It plays into her fighting ability, the same way psylocke's does or Mr. X...
Wrong. Punching, kicking, blocking, and countering plays into someones fighting ability. Psylocke uses her powers to create weapons and to attack her opponent's mind.
Originally posted by jinzin
This is a real fight, It's a hand to hand contest and the only stipulation implied into this contest was that there are no sais and no bat belt.
Wrong. Because if this was a "real" fight, as in taking place in a comic book storyline that's canon. Batman would always have his utility belt with him at all times. This is a made up vs thread battle that "never" happened.
Originally posted by jinzin
Ummm actually it's a lot different. Cyclop's optic blast is the result of a mutation and was not recieved through the honing of his skills, Elektras is.
They're different from each other in nature. But both have nothing to do with someones "physical" ability to fight. So if Cyclops got his powers through training, it would be fair for him to use that ability in a h2h contest with some who has no other abilities other than their physical ability and skill to fight? No. Your justification doesn't work here.
Originally posted by jinzin
Oh I get it just fine, you're a bat fanboy who will do anything and employ any double standard you can to make Batman and everyone associated with him better than they really are, including ignoring rules, your own rationale and facts.
If I'm a batman fanboy, then I think that it's fair to call you a Batman hater. There is no double standard in a "fair" h2h contest. If so, then Batman weapons has just as much of a right to be permitted as Elektra's TP. Since Batman gained skills "through training", in how to use such weapons in a fight.
Originally posted by thadarknite84
Wrong. Punching, kicking, blocking, and countering plays into someones fighting ability. Psylocke uses her powers to create weapons and to attack her opponent's mind.
Originally posted by thadarknite84
Wrong. Because if this was a "real" fight, as in taking place in a comic book storyline that's canon. Batman would always have his utility belt with him at all times. This is a made up vs thread battle that "never" happened.
Originally posted by thadarknite84If he did, then yeah. Like Iron Fists eergy techniques or Shang Chi's chi amps. But the fact is that he didn't learn it through training so comparing it to Elektra's TP means nothing.
They're different from each other in nature. But both have nothing to do with someones "physical" ability to fight. So if Cyclops got his powers through training, it would be fair for him to use that ability in a h2h contest with some who has no other abilities other than their physical ability and skill to fight? No. Your justification doesn't work here.
It's like monks learning 1 strike death touch, you can't just strip that away from them in a h2h fight just because you don't like it, since that's the culmination of what they've trained for.
Originally posted by thadarknite84😂
If I'm a batman fanboy, then I think that it's fair to call you a Batman hater. There is no double standard in a "fair" h2h contest. If so, then Batman weapons has just as much of a right to be permitted as Elektra's TP. Since Batman gained skills "through training", in how to use such weapons in a fight.
You don't have the slightest clue who you're talking to do you?
Oh man, all i can say is, read the first 100 or so pages of the Spiderman vs. Batman thread.
Yeah but it ain't a weapons fight, it's a hand to hand fight. So his weapons training is meaningless here, unlike her TP which plays into h2h in how she'll perceive and react to attacks.
Originally posted by jinzin
When you're basig your punching kicking andblocking on what you're reading through TP then it plays into fighting ability. So no afraid you're wrong.
doh..... Do you understand the nature of TP and how it is used? She isn't using it to preform the act of punching or kicking. TP has nothing with preforming any physical action 😬
Originally posted by jinzin
Unless Elektra showed up while Bruce Wayne was at a charity event to kill him. Pfffft... you're ignoring the point. This thread stipulates a real fight, the only stipulations that were made were no sais, no Batbelt, I don't see anywhere where it says no chi, no TP.... Cause.. it doesn't.
She has never encounter Batman before or Bruce Wayne, to know such information to know that they're the same man.... 🤨.... You can't take away someone's life force, genius. They would no longer be able to live, let alone fight. And chi and TP are not the same. Every living human has chi. There is nothing unfair about it. What is unfair is h2h +TP vs h2h.
Originally posted by jinzin
If he did, then yeah. Like Iron Fists eergy techniques or Shang Chi's chi amps. But the fact is that he didn't learn it through training so comparing it to Elektra's TP means nothing.
IF and Shang-Chi have mastered the use of their own "life force". And again, TP and chi are nothing alike. Chi is use to increase ones natural physical abilities, strength, stamina, durability, healing etc. TP allows one to enter and read other peoples thoughts, comunitcate from far distances, and see into the pass or future etc. TP has nothing to do with Elektra's fighting ability other then giving her an "avantage", by invading Batman's thoughts. In order to predict what he's going do.
Originally posted by jinzin
Yeah but it ain't a weapons fight, it's a hand to hand fight. So his weapons training is meaningless here, unlike her TP which plays into h2h in how she'll perceive and react to attacks.
And it isn't a TP battle neither. If that was the case, Jean Grey, Psylocke, X-man, or Cable would be a better opponent for her. And weapons have a lot more to do with fighting (in their case, MA skills) than TP ever would.
Originally posted by thadarknite84Do you understand the difference of having an innate power and a learned ability?
doh..... Do you understand the nature of TP and how it is used? She isn't using it to preform the act of punching or kicking. TP has nothing with preforming any physical action 😬
Originally posted by thadarknite84
She has never encounter Batman before or Bruce Wayne, to know such information to know that they're the same man.... 🤨.... You can't take away someone's life force, genius. They would no longer be able to live, let alone fight. And chi and TP are not the same. Every living human has chi. There is nothing unfair about it. What is unfair is h2h +TP vs h2h.
You said that he'd never be caught without his belt. So I gave you a scenario where he would so you can get it through your that thick skull of yours. Who said anything about her knowing it was Batman? I said that Elektra would be going after Bruce Wayne. She takes out high profile targets, Bruce Wayne would definitely be high profile... Nice to see your reading comprehension ain't sohot though.
Okay you can't take away someone lifeforce. Like Batman's ability to manipulate chi right?
EXACTLY so you can't take away her TP.
Originally posted by thadarknite84
IF and Shang-Chi have mastered the use of their own "life force". And again, TP and chi are nothing alike. Chi is use to increase ones natural physical abilities, strength, stamina, durability, healing etc. TP allows one to enter and read other peoples thoughts, comunitcate from far distances, and see into the pass or future etc.
Ect includes TP in Elektra's case, through training and meditation she has heightened her awareness to the level of reading minds, making people dizzy, supplying mental illusions and then some.
Just because her training does not immediately equal a physical skill that doesn't mean it won't play into a physical matchup.
Originally posted by thadarknite84
TP has nothing to do with Elektra's fighting ability other then giving her an "avantage", by invading Batman's thoughts. In order to predict what he's going do.
Originally posted by thadarknite84Sorry but Batman got put into a fight with a character who has TP, don't sit there and whine, if you're going to blame someone blame the thread starter.
And it isn't a TP battle neither. If that was the case, Jean Grey, Psylocke, X-man, or Cable would be a better opponent for her. And weapons have a lot more to do with fighting (in their case, MA skills) than TP ever would.
Pfffft.. Shows how much you know about fighting; 90% of all fights are based on mentality, will power, and deception.. all of which has nothing to do with physical attributes or weapons mastery.
Again you're ignoring the most important thing here... THE THREAD STARTER NEVER STIPULATED THAT ELEKTRA DOESN'T GET HER TP... Stop whinning and get over it.
Originally posted by jinzin
Do you understand the difference of having an innate power and a learned ability?
Yes I do. But you clearly don't understand that her TP is not in anyway related to her ability to physical beat Batman in h2h. TP helps her enter his mind and that is not fighting, it's mind probing.
Originally posted by jinzin
You said that he'd never be caught without his belt. So I gave you a scenario where he would so you can get it through your that thick skull of yours. Who said anything about her knowing it was Batman? I said that Elektra would be going after Bruce Wayne. She takes out high profile targets, Bruce Wayne would definitely be high profile... Nice to see your reading comprehension ain't sohot though.
Well your scenario makes no sense. He's still Batman with or without the suit. And my comprehension is just fine. It's your scenario that's not so hot. She would still get her ass kick if she attempts to assassinate Bruce. He does have instincts of his own ya know.
Originally posted by jinzin
Ect includes TP in Elektra's case, through training and meditation she has heightened her awareness to the level of reading minds, making people dizzy, supplying mental illusions and then some.
yeah yeah, and all of that has something to do with her fighting ability, right 🙄 I got a question for you. If she is so good in h2h fighting, why would she need TP to beat Batman?
Originally posted by jinzin
So then it DOES come into play with her fighting ability.
All it DOES is help anticipate his oncoming attacks. If her fighting skills were truly better than Bats, she wouldn't need to relies on TP.
Originally posted by jinzin
Sorry but Batman got put into a fight with a character who has TP, don't sit there and whine, if you're going to blame someone blame the thread starter.
Well I no longer need to. He already took it away. I'm just arguing to
prove my point.
Originally posted by jinzin
Pfffft.. Shows how much you know about fighting; 90% of all fights are based on mentality, will power, and deception.. all of which has nothing to do with physical attributes or weapons mastery.
❌ ....... Mentality, as in how much you know and your understanding of how to use it. Will power, as in how strong you are mentally, physical, and spiritually to overcome great odds. And deception, as in ones ability to fake, lure, or deceive an opponent. Physical attributes does play a big role in fighting. Take someone like Daredevil and put him against someone like The Thing and see what happens. If someone is physical Superior, skill and all the above won't matter, like Slade is to Batman. So yeah my understanding of fighting is just fine, thank you. And Weapons are use for fighting, TP is generally not. Elektra using it as an advantage doesn't mean that it's apart of h2h skills.
Originally posted by jinzin
Again you're ignoring the most important thing here... THE THREAD STARTER NEVER STIPULATED THAT ELEKTRA DOESN'T GET HER TP... Stop whinning and get over it.
Originally posted by spidey-dude
[B]batman vs elektra hand to hand fight only/B]
"Hand 2 hand fight only" is self explanatory 😬
Originally posted by thadarknite84i dont consider using weapons in a fight proves somone is a better fighter than others unless they only use there bear hands.
Yes I do. But you clearly don't understand that her TP is not in anyway related to her ability to physical beat Batman in h2h. TP helps her enter his mind and that is not fighting, it's mind probing.Well your scenario makes no sense. He's still Batman with or without the suit. And my comprehension is just fine. It's your scenario that's not so hot. She would still get her ass kick if she attempts to assassinate Bruce. He does have instincts of his own ya know.
yeah yeah, and all of that has something to do with her fighting ability, right 🙄 I got a question for you. If she is so good in h2h fighting, why would she need TP to beat Batman?
All it DOES is help anticipate his oncoming attacks. If her fighting skills were truly better than Bats, she wouldn't need to relies on TP.
Well I no longer need to. He already took it away. I'm just arguing to
prove my point.❌ ....... Mentality, as in how much you know and your understanding of how to use it. Will power, as in how strong you are mentally, physical, and spiritually to overcome great odds. And deception, as in ones ability to fake, lure, or deceive an opponent. Physical attributes does play a big role in fighting. Take someone like Daredevil and put him against someone like The Thing and see what happens. If someone is physical Superior, skill and all the above won't matter, like Slade is to Batman. So yeah my understanding of fighting is just fine, thank you. And Weapons are use for fighting, TP is generally not. Elektra using it as an advantage doesn't mean that it's apart of h2h skills.
"Hand 2 hand fight only" is self explanatory 😬
Originally posted by jinzin
Sorry but Batman got put into a fight with a character who has TP, don't sit there and whine, if you're going to blame someone blame the thread starter.
Originally posted by thadarknite84
Well I no longer need to. He already took it away. I'm just arguing to
prove my point.
So I have already acknowledged that you took her TP away. That's what you failed to understand.
Originally posted by spidey-dude
i took off TP for her cause he doesnt have bat belt in this fight and your still bitching
You pointed out that on page 20, you've already took away TP. I was letting you know that I already knew that. I'm arguing with jinzin, because for some odd reason. He feels that TP = h2h skill, just because she trained get it. so you're wrong. And you should read everything before you make an assumption that I'm still "bitching", as you call it.