I never answered some points here. And if I may say so, some points need answering
Originally posted by ScreamPasteAs far as I can tell, they're stated to be "rock-like", which could cover a lot of materials. You also cannot assume that their bodies are completely made from stone (or stone-like materials) in the way that a stone statue would be. Running the numbers on an unknown quantity is still a large assumption, one that conservative estimates cannot account for.
This is why I round all my numbers down, so if I err I err on the conservative side. Gorons are stated to be made of stone...
Link is strong, I have no argument there, but I still don't see evidence for him matching Zero in physical strength. I'll give Zero's strength feats again if you wish.
Originally posted by ScreamPasteIs this preternatural skill an officially stated fact? It sounds like conjecture. As for Ganon, has he been constantly fighting for centuries at the time of TP? Zero has fought constantly and commanded Hunter Units for centuries.
Link's preternaturally skilled with all weapons, within minutes of getting the bow he can peg an inch thick pole at about a kilometer's distance. Then he proceeds to beat Ganon in a sword fight.
Originally posted by ScreamPasteAs you are probably aware, titanium is equal or stronger to low-grade steel alloys. Regardless, the use of titanium as an example for Zero was actually a mistake on my part. He's destroyed Titanium-X armor (stronger than titanium by a significant, but undisclosed amount) as well as other armored robots of equal or better durability.
As to Zero disintegrating titanium[which is structurally weaker than steel, just lighter.]vid plx?
As for the videos, the "Let's Play Mega Man X" series on youtube will have demonstrations of all of Zero's techniques and feats. Finding and posting them would take more time than I'm willing to give, however, I will point out exactly where you can find the feats in question:
Maverick Hunter X: Zero's first use of the Shin Messenko: At the end of Vile's game, Vile battles X and Zero. Zero uses his signature area attack for the first time during this battle.
Mega Man X2: Just before the final boss of the game, Zero uses the Messenko, destroys everything in the room, and later punches through four+ feet of solid metal with a single blow.
Mega Man X5: After the 8 Maverick stages and prior to the final stage, X and Zero have a confrontation. Zero again uses the Shin Messenko, sending shockwaves up from the floor with a single punch.
Those are the visuals. Now, Zero has officially been stated to be physically superior to Mega Man, who has himself lifted giant robots and a sizable section of Dr. Wily's fortress.
Now, can you point me to the general location of videos that might show off Link's strength?
Originally posted by ScreamPasteAnd Link = breakable too. More breakable than Zero. What is Link's best durability feat? Zero has ridden a nuclear missile with Omega as its warhead to ground zero and walked away from the blast. He's also walked away from two orbital re-entries sans functional ships. Explosions that would vaporize humans do not even phase him (first boss cutscene of Mega Man Zero).
Zero = breakable. The sword = unbreakable. Link = really feckin' strong. Sword+strong+Zero=broken Zero.
Originally posted by MooCowofJusticeI can tell you the techniques Zero has used without any upgrades. The thread-starter might have something different in mind, however:
I really don't care. A fair fight is what I ask.So please, somebody define me the standard Zero equipment?
Pretty please with sugar on top? 😮
Zero has used:
The Z-Saber
Z-Buster
Messenko
Shin Messenko
Heat Haze
Enkoukyaku
Soul Body
I wonder if the thread starter might define Zero and Link's arsenal for this fight? After all, the Master Sword isn't exactly Link's first sword in TP, yet several folks have made the assumption that he has it in this fight.
Originally posted by ScreamPasteNah, to deprive Link of the Master Sword would make this more uneven than it already is. 😉 I just wanted an official ruling on what was being considered standard.
They said standard, the sword is practicly part of Link, people will assume he has it in any debate because of that, they're hard to seperate in anyone's mental image of Link.Besides, you want him to fight a robot with a mundane sword? -.O;
Uneven? Psh, the only thing hindering Link is the fact that the OP hasn't stated what's standard 😛
If Link gets more than a sword this could get very fun to debate. I stand by unbreakable sword>robots.
If we agree that the Links have consistent physical attributes I can also prove he has supersonic reaction time. :]
Originally posted by ScreamPasteIf you insist, I'll bring up Zero's consistent use of near C reflexes. 😄
Uneven? Psh, the only thing hindering Link is the fact that the OP hasn't stated what's standard 😛
If Link gets more than a sword this could get very fun to debate. I stand by unbreakable sword>robots.If we agree that the Links have consistent physical attributes I can also prove he has supersonic reaction time. :]
Oh, and Z-Saber/Buster/Shin Messeno >> fleshy Link.
Originally posted by occultdestroyerI have to agree. Link's body isn't going to match Zero's in durability. And I've already made my case as to why Zero is physically stronger.
SAIZ U
Really, the only thing Link has going for him here is the Master Sword and that isn't enough without the durability for when Zero gets inside/behind Link's defenses or hits him with an area attack.
I'm still waiting on an official source stating that TP Link innately has hundreds of years worth of battle experience to equal Zero's. Making a bullseye and defeating Ganon is impressive, but doesn't give Link the rep to overwhelm Zero's resume.
Originally posted by Acrosurge
I have to agree. Link's body isn't going to match Zero's in durability. And I've already made my case as to why Zero is physically stronger.Really, the only thing Link has going for him here is the Master Sword and that isn't enough without the durability for when Zero gets inside/behind Link's defenses or hits him with an area attack.
I'm still waiting on an official source stating that TP Link innately has hundreds of years worth of battle experience to equal Zero's. Making a bullseye and defeating Ganon is impressive, but doesn't give Link the rep to overwhelm Zero's resume.
Link can break Zero, and last I checked the who is stronger debate was stalemated at best. Zero throws tanks, which are a quarter the weight of the Goron Link threw.
Link has that durability, we already covered that both Link and his stuff can take 'plasma' attacks, and has been fired at the ground from a sky-city at supersonic speed without injury. He's stopped a 200 ton object in motion without getting crushed or otherwise taking damage, then reversed it's momentum entirely. He can take physical abuse from Ganon, which, essentially, is 'nuff said.
And Zero getting inside his defenses? Zero's best bet is to stay away, the author doesn't seem to have given Link any ranged weapons. If he gets close he risks dismemberment, which I don't care if he can survive it, he loses once he's out an arm, cause the next one's going shortly thereafter.
Originally posted by ScreamPasteTanks? Zero's predecessor has moved giant, armored robots that dwarf TP's goron in size (X Crusher: MM6, SuperMechasaurus). He has lifted a portion of Skull Fortress from its foundation (a portion that surpasses the entire screen above and on either side). Zero has officially been stated to be stronger than this.
Link can break Zero, and last I checked the who is stronger debate was stalemated at best. Zero throws tanks, which are a quarter the weight of the Goron Link threw.
Originally posted by ScreamPasteWhen did we cover this? Link is hurt by fire. Plasma > Fire. Z-Buster > Plasma. And when has Link ridden a nuclear missile to its detonation and walked away? Zero > Link in invulnerability.
Link has that durability, we already covered that both Link and his stuff can take 'plasma' attacks
Originally posted by ScreamPasteSpecial conditions? Proof that the speed was supersonic? Can you direct me to a video or the portion of TP that this comes from?
and has been fired at the ground from a sky-city at supersonic speed without injury.
Originally posted by ScreamPasteI'd like to see the "200 ton object" example for myself. It sounds impressive. Can you point me to the part of TP in which this is featured? Still, even if the object was 200 tons, this is still less than what Zero's predecessor has lifted.
He's stopped a 200 ton object in motion without getting crushed or otherwise taking damage, then reversed it's momentum entirely. He can take physical abuse from Ganon, which, essentially, is 'nuff said.
Originally posted by ScreamPasteHow does Zero get dismembered? He is many decades more skilled than Link (Zero has fought for centuries), more durable, and faster. If for some reason Link block's a saber strike, Zero's Heat Haze duplicates will still get through.
And Zero getting inside his defenses? Zero's best bet is to stay away, the author doesn't seem to have given Link any ranged weapons. If he gets close he risks dismemberment, which I don't care if he can survive it, he loses once he's out an arm, cause the next one's going shortly thereafter.
And you still have given me no answer for Zero's Shin Messenko area attack. No offense, my friend, but we are not at a stalemate. You just seem to be ignoring most of my evidence. 🙂
Link can get behind his sheild, problem solved.
The more skilled thing is pure speculation on your part, as is the faster.
Durable maybe, the strength debate is at a stalemate, and I showed you the 200 ton object already.
If Link hits Zero, Zero's taking damage, and probably losing very shortly therafter. his best bet is to stay away.
Originally posted by ScreamPasteShin Messenko is an area attack. Unless the shield covers Link's whole body, it isn't going to protect him.
Link can get behind his sheild, problem solved.
Originally posted by ScreamPasteZero being more skilled as pure speculation? Zero has been fighting opponents constantly for centuries. This is officially stated. Can you provide an official statement that TP Link is that skilled?
The more skilled thing is pure speculation on your part, as is the faster.
Originally posted by ScreamPasteHumor me. Can you point me toward official footage of the 200 ton object? As I recall, your image was pretty pixelated. Regardless, Skull Fortress >> 200 ton object. We have an official statement saying Zero is stronger. That doesn't seem like much of a stalemate.
Durable maybe, the strength debate is at a stalemate, and I showed you the 200 ton object already.
Originally posted by ScreamPasteShortly thereafter? The Master Sword isn't an instant kill and it doesn't exactly have a stellar record against heavy armor, let alone the kind that can withstand nuclear missile explosions and drops from orbit. Heck, Darkhammer's armor turns the Master Sword aside. What makes you think a single strike would put Zero out of commission?
If Link hits Zero, Zero's taking damage, and probably losing very shortly therafter.
Shin Messenko is an area attack. Unless the shield covers Link's whole body, the shield isn't going to protect him.A sheild will deflect the attack around him, all he has to do is point the sheild at it's center.
Zero being more skilled as pure speculation? Zero has been fighting opponents constantly for centuries. This is officially stated. Can you provide an official statement that Link is that skilled?
You're confusing doing somethign for a long time with mastering something, which while it takes a long time to do, usually, doesn't happen just because you happen to spend a long time on it. So he did it for a long time, to claim he's more skilled than Link is speculation. Link can pick up any weapon and master it, a sword? It's nothing but an extension of him which he uses to deliver his wrath. 😛
Humor me. Can you point me toward official footage of the 200 ton object? As I recall, your image was pretty pixelated. Regardless, Skull Fortress >> 200 ton object. We have an official statement saying Zero is stronger. That doesn't seem like much of a stalemate.Youtube, type in "goron miniboss".
Throwing>Lifting, and it should be obvious that Link is a lot stronger than that feat shows, as he overpowers Ganondorf later on in the game.
Shortly thereafter? The Master Sword isn't an instant kill and it doesn't exactly have a stellar record against heavy armor, let alone the kind that can withstand nuclear missile explosions and drops from orbit. Heck, Darkhammer's armor turns it aside. What makes you think a single strike would put Zero out of commission?
My logic is that Link's strength behind an unbreakable object striking a breakable object will break the breakable object, especially considering the expression of PSI under that kind of force is much greater than Zero's armour has shown that it can take. One shot won't take Zero out, unless Link gets his head, but it's a lot harder to fight with one of your limbs gone/out of order, and the next hits will come very soon thereafter.
Originally posted by ScreamPasteThe attack generates enormous energy from multiple directions at once. It has no real center. How can the shield deflect incoming energy from multiple directions at once?
A sheild will deflect the attack around him, all he has to do is point the sheild at it's center.
Originally posted by ScreamPasteI'm sorry, my friend, but this is rubbish. The longer you use a skill, the better that skill becomes. Zero has been developing his fighting skills for centuries. This is officially stated. Now, where is your official statement that Link can master any weapon by picking it up and that this translates into Link automatically mastering all forms of fighting across the board?
You're confusing doing somethign for a long time with mastering something, which while it takes a long time to do, usually, doesn't happen just because you happen to spend a long time on it. So he did it for a long time, to claim he's more skilled than Link is speculation. Link can pick up any weapon and master it, a sword? It's nothing but an extension of him which he uses to deliver his wrath. 😛
Originally posted by ScreamPasteThanks. You're awesome! *watches video* Okay, so is this supposed to be the 200 ton object that Link halted and threw? No offense, but even if Dangoro was made from solid granite, he wouldn't weigh 200 tons. Not even close. I might buy 15 to 20 tons, which is a great strength feat for Link, but not 200 tons.
Youtube, type in "goron miniboss".
Originally posted by ScreamPasteBe careful, because it looks like you're accepting gameplay mechanics when it serves your position and discarding them when they don't fit.
Gameplay. If the enemies couldn't defend themselves there'd be no variety and the combat would be ridiculously easy, part of the fun in fighting big badass enemies is that they're badass. Ganon wore armour and the sword didn't seem to notice that, because Ganon defended himself with his sword, he was designed to play differently.
Originally posted by ScreamPasteAnd with that logic, you're assuming that Zero's armor will not turn the blade as did the armor worn by Darkhammer, Argorok, Armogohma and others. Are all those instances game mechanics too?
My logic is that Link's strength behind an unbreakable object striking a breakable object will break the breakable object, especially considering the expression of PSI under that kind of force is much greater than Zero's armour has shown that it can take. One shot won't take Zero out, unless Link gets his head, but it's a lot harder to fight with one of your limbs gone/out of order, and the next hits will come very soon thereafter.
All this, and you're assuming that Zero is too slow to counter or evade a sword stroke? Again, no offense, but that is an awful lot of assumptions.
Thanks. You're awesome! *watches video* Okay, so is this supposed to be the 200 ton object that Link halted and threw? No offense, but even if Dangoro was made from solid granite, he wouldn't weigh 200 tons. Not even close. I might buy 15 to 20 tons, which is a great strength feat for Link, but not 200 tons.I think you saw the wrong fight, the one on the magnetic disk floating in lava against the massive Goron in plate armour?
I mathed it in this thread, looks can be deceiving, but you can check my work for yourself.