Thor could not Defeat the Juggernaut. All right Thor makes juggy mad then they fight if thor some how nocks him out or kills him(not happening) but say if it were true. The cyrax the real Juggy lol alright would pound thor and bill with out Hulks help. Remember the Juggernaut(Cain marko) does not know all the Secrets of the cyrax and the real Juggernaut does lol.
Originally posted by KillAll
Juggernaut has shown to be able to dispatch thor within the pages of a single comic book. make it 2 books and you have brb and thor gone. hulk would help too so it wouldnt take quite that long... hmm, seems simple to me. now add in, that juggernaut is P'od and not just on a normal (hey i think i'll wonder off over here and smash a building) rampage, he could get rid of 1 or the other while hulk holds off the other.
The only time, Juggernaut or Thor, ever had a fair fight, Thor would have won if it was not for the 60 second rule.
In their first fight, Thor was severely weakened to the point, where he couldn't stop a cart and he still ended up winning. In their third fight, Juggernaut was amped.
When has Classic Juggernaut dispatched Classic Thor in a comic book?
Just wondering, as both two fights involved circumstance.
In their second fight, where they were both at optimum levels, guess what happened?
Thor, canceled out his invulnerability, and pounded him to near unconsciousness. He can do so again, but there isn't a 60 second time limit here. You said that if Juggernaut got mad, he would quickly dispatch either Thor or Beta Ray Thor. facepalm
That's just ridiculous.
Originally posted by The Red Light
Thor could not Defeat the Juggernaut. All right Thor makes juggy mad then they fight if thor some how nocks him out or kills him(not happening) but say if it were true. The cyrax the real Juggy lol alright would pound thor and bill with out Hulks help. Remember the Juggernaut(Cain marko) does not know all the Secrets of the cyrax and the real Juggernaut does lol.
First of all, who on Earth is the "Cyrax" and since when is he the real Juggernaut?
We are not using fan fiction here. Moving on to the actual comic book characters....
Thor can defeat the Juggernaut, and he can put him down.
Okay, I'm completely confused here.
Who the hell is the real Juggernaut, if he isn't Cain Marko?
Who the hell is "Cyrax"?
You're post doesn't even make sense...
Originally posted by The Red Light
You all have never read the comic when onslaught put cain marko into the Cyrax?
I don't recall there a character appearing by the name of Cyrax.
The only Cyrax I know is from Mortal Kombat.
Hold on, I'm going to go find my issues, and skim through it.
That arc was horribly handled, I hated reading it. I'll see if I missed it.
That Thor issue was PIS. I would think that if Cain can stay conscious with no flesh or organs, only bones and then heal, a few punches to the head could easily be taken care of by his healing factor. Cain also had alot of his power drained in that incident where he was left standing as a skeleton.
As mentioned by others, Cain was written as a mutant by that writer. He just didn't understand Juggernaut's character, nor that his shield is not the source of his invulnurability.
As for the 8th day arc, Cain didn't receive any power up. He was just more focused and had a much better understanding of his abilities and was able to draw on more power. An editor at the time of the 8th Day arc even said he didn't receive a power up.
Also, Onslaught put Cain into the gem of Cyttorak.
Originally posted by Ptr_Grifin
As for the 8th day arc, Cain didn't receive any power up. He was just more focused and had a much better understanding of his abilities and was able to draw on more power. An editor at the time of the 8th Day arc even said he didn't receive a power up.
Originally posted by Ptr_Grifin
That Thor issue was PIS. I would think that if Cain can stay conscious with no flesh or organs, only bones and then heal, a few punches to the head could easily be taken care of by his healing factor. Cain also had alot of his power drained in that incident where he was left standing as a skeleton.
I know what you are referring to as I have read it numerous times, but take into account Thor said he canceled all of the mystical power in the area. He didn't do all of it, but Thor has been known to over exaggerate, but who knows to what extent he did cancel the mystical energy in the area.
If he can cancel his famed invulnerability, then I wouldn't be surprised, if he was able to put Cain down.
Also just because you have a tremendous healing factor, does not mean you cannot be knocked out. Beings such as Hulk, Lobo prove so, and they have all been reduced to skeletons etc.
Originally posted by Ptr_Grifin
As mentioned by others, Cain was written as a mutant by that writer. He just didn't understand Juggernaut's character, nor that his shield is not the source of his invulnurability.
Mutant?
As I recall, it was clearly stated that the Juggernaut's power comes from Cytorrak and he was mystically empowered in that issue, also he was shown to be invulnerable without his Force Field in that arc.
Originally posted by Ptr_Grifin
As for the 8th day arc, Cain didn't receive any power up. He was just more focused and had a much better understanding of his abilities and was able to draw on more power. An editor at the time of the 8th Day arc even said he didn't receive a power up.
I don't know about the editor part, but Juggernaut was obviously amped in that comic. He was more powerful than ever before.
Thor clearly says, that he is more powerful than ever before, and as you can see, Juggernaut agrees. He says, something's making him that way etc.
Originally posted by Ptr_Grifin
Also, Onslaught put Cain into the gem of Cyttorak.
I know, but he said "Cyrax" and I was confused. I had thought I missed something.
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Also just because you have a tremendous healing factor, does not mean you cannot be knocked out. Beings such as Hulk, Lobo prove so, and they have all been reduced to skeletons etc.
Only difference is that Hulk couldn't stand as just a skeleton. Plus I don't think Hulk was completely reduced to just bones. He still had some meat, not much though.
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Mutant?As I recall, it was clearly stated that the Juggernaut's power comes from Cytorrak and he was mystically empowered in that issue, also he was shown to be invulnerable without his Force Field in that arc.
The same writer produce both Thor vs Juggernaut fights. In the first fight, Juggernaut was labeled a mutant twice.
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
I don't know about the editor part, but Juggernaut was obviously amped in that comic. He was more powerful than ever before.Thor clearly says, that he is more powerful than ever before, and as you can see, Juggernaut agrees. He says, something's making him that way etc.
I know, but he said "Cyrax" and I was confused. I had thought I missed something.
When Juggernaut said that, he most likely meant that something was making him more focused and as a result he was able to draw on more power.
The 8th Day arc is somewhat confusing. When Cain accessed the powers of Cyttorak it was supposed to set off a chain reaction. This reaction was supposed to "activate" the other relics and draw a suitable vessel for each. The way this was supposed to happen was inscriptions on the walls of the mountain that the gem. But when Cain found the gem the mountain was bombarded with mortar fire and the inscriptions were destroyed, postponing the 8th Day event.
It was later triggered when another relic was found. This put all of the avatars under some kind of trance, giving them full knowledge of their powers and a desire to want to complete their task, Cain included. Now with a better understanding of his power, he was able to access more of it.
wait people think thor can beat juggernaut despite the fact on panel he shrugged off the god blast like it wasn't shit? I'm drunk right now and even i realize that thor can't hurt thor without bfr'ing him. and didn't the last time thor bfr'd him juggs ended up taking over the planet he got teleported to? Thors power is far less than Cyttoraks.
Originally posted by Ptr_Grifin
Only difference is that Hulk couldn't stand as just a skeleton. Plus I don't think Hulk was completely reduced to just bones. He still had some meat, not much though.
He was crouching as I recall as a skeleton. He was also reduced to a skeleton just as Lobo was.
An amazing healing factor does not mean you cannot be knocked out. For the Juggernaut his durability made this seem unlikely, but Thor has the ability to remove that meaning, he can put Cain down. Not permanently but enough to be considered a win.
Originally posted by Ptr_Grifin
The same writer produce both Thor vs Juggernaut fights. In the first fight, Juggernaut was labeled a mutant twice.
Labeled as a mutant?
Is that a result of the New Warriors and/or Thor mistaking him for a mutant?
I'm at school so I don't have the issue available at the moment. Either way, the Juggernaut was correctly shown to draw from the power of Cytorrak in the second fight. He was shown to be empowered. Also the Juggernaut was shown to be invulnerable barring his Force Field in the first fight, as I recall since you are using the first fight.
Originally posted by Ptr_Grifin
When Juggernaut said that, he most likely meant that something was making him more focused and as a result he was able to draw on more power.
Thor said he was amped and the Juggernaut clearly agreed. The meaning seems rather clear.
What else is there to it?
Originally posted by Ptr_Grifin
The 8th Day arc is somewhat confusing. When Cain accessed the powers of Cyttorak it was supposed to set off a chain reaction. This reaction was supposed to "activate" the other relics and draw a suitable vessel for each. The way this was supposed to happen was inscriptions on the walls of the mountain that the gem. But when Cain found the gem the mountain was bombarded with mortar fire and the inscriptions were destroyed, postponing the 8th Day event.
The arc seemed clear enough to me. This statement does not change what was said in the comic book. You found confusing, which fortunately I did not, but whether it was confusing or not, does not change what was said.
Originally posted by Ptr_Grifin
It was later triggered when another relic was found. This put all of the avatars under some kind of trance, giving them full knowledge of their powers and a desire to want to complete their task, Cain included. Now with a better understanding of his power, he was able to access more of it.
Dude, Cain was amped. The 8th Day Juggernaut is superior to Classic Juggernaut. If we start using more powerful incarnations, I'll start with Thor with the Odin Force.
Soul suck or enchantment-breaking works. Team 1 can't fly, so it's easy for BRB and Thor to pick off whoever they want.
Originally posted by LDHZenkai
wait people think thor can beat juggernaut despite the fact on panel he shrugged off the god blast like it wasn't shit? I'm drunk right now and even i realize that thor can't hurt thor without bfr'ing him. and didn't the last time thor bfr'd him juggs ended up taking over the planet he got teleported to? Thors power is far less than Cyttoraks.
Shrugged it off? Is that why Cain was afraid and pushed back? And you know, sent away? When you shrug things off you're not forced into something. Learn how to differ. Exagerrating never helped anyone.
Originally posted by LDHZenkai
wait people think thor can beat juggernaut despite the fact on panel he shrugged off the god blast like it wasn't shit? I'm drunk right now and even i realize that thor can't hurt thor without bfr'ing him. and didn't the last time thor bfr'd him juggs ended up taking over the planet he got teleported to? Thors power is far less than Cyttoraks.
Shrugged off?
What's you're definition of shrugged off?
My certainly isn't, what Cain did to the God Blast. Besides Thor was severely weakened there, to the point he was only a shadow of his true self and that's obvious by the level of power the God Blast he used against Juggernaut was.
Thor's power doesn't have to be above Cytorrak's to beat Cain.
Either way, enchantment negation for the win!
Juggernaut was written as a mutant in one of the narrator bubbles.
I still don't believe he was amped. There was nothing to say he was amped by an outside force. He could have easily been drawing on more power himself. You can believe what you want, I don't care. But I'll take the words of the Marvel Editor over yours, and what you think is meant by the above scan.
8th Day Juggernaut is what he is intended to be. He knows how to use his power. Thor only said he was stronger, not amped by something else. Cain being focused and wanting something is what is making him stronger. There are other issues that show this as well.
Hulk wasn't left with just his skeleton either. He has some flesh left, albeit just a little.
Originally posted by Ptr_Grifin
Juggernaut was written as a mutant in one of the narrator bubbles.I still don't believe he was amped. There was nothing to say he was amped by an outside force. He could have easily been drawing on more power himself. You can believe what you want, I don't care. But I'll take the words of the Marvel Editor over yours, and what you think is meant by the above scan.
8th Day Juggernaut is what he is intended to be. He knows how to use his power. Thor only said he was stronger, not amped by something else. Cain being focused and wanting something is what is making him stronger. There are other issues that show this as well.
Hulk wasn't left with just his skeleton either. He has some flesh left, albeit just a little.
One of the narrator bubbles?
Well, at least they corrected that stupidity.
There is nothing to suggest he was amped?
Dude it's rather clear. Read the words.
I never said there was an outside force, and frankly I don't care how he was amped, just that he was. Whether Cytorrak gave him more access to his power or not, it doesn't matter.
It's clear that Juggernaut is more powerful during 8th Day than he is in his Classic incarnation. How anyone could argue otherwise is beyond me.
I mean, he knows himself better, than others would, and he knows he was amped. He even says, that he is a God "now". Indicating that he holds himself in higher regard in power than he did before. There are instances such as those, that prove he was above his Classic levels.
Thor said he was more powerful than ever and Juggernaut agreed. He clearly says, something is making him that way etc.
I have never seen Classic Juggernaut's wanting something amping himself significantly to the levels he showed here.
Using 8th Day Juggernaut as a comparison to how well Classic Juggernaut would do in a fight is just illogical. It's akin to using Rune King Thor. A more powerful incarnation.
You can't base what would happen in a fight, between Classic Thor and Classic Juggernaut on how the fight between Classic Thor and 8th Day Juggernaut went. That's all I'm saying.
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
It's clear that Juggernaut is more powerful during 8th Day than he is in his Classic incarnation. How anyone could argue otherwise is beyond me.I mean, he knows himself better, than others would, and he knows he was amped. He even says, that he is a God "now". Indicating that he holds himself in higher regard in power than he did before. There are instances such as those, that prove he was above his Classic levels.
Okay, we misunderstood each other here. I wasn't arguing that Juggernaut wasn't stronger. I agree he was stronger in that instance. I was trying to say that there was no amping by outside forces, only that Cain himself could do that. Something that hasn't happened again. I may not have typed my thoughts clearly enough, maybe still haven't gotten what I wanted to say across.
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
I have never seen Classic Juggernaut's wanting something amping himself significantly to the levels he showed here.Using 8th Day Juggernaut as a comparison to how well Classic Juggernaut would do in a fight is just illogical. It's akin to using Rune King Thor. A more powerful incarnation.
In a Juggernaut one shot, D'Spraye said he took "all" of Juggernaut's power. Yet he was surprised to see Juggernaut still standing. Juggernaut's rage was able to fuel him and grant him access to more power.
Using 8th Day Juggernaut and Rune King/Odin Force Thor are not the same. 8th Day Juggernaut was still drawing on more power he has access to. Also, he isn't an incarnation of Juggernaut. All this is, was just an instance where Juggernaut was able to reach those levels of power because of the situation.
Rune King/Odin Force Thor is different. Neither of those was Thor drawing on more of HIS power. That was power literally given to him by Odin, or power he acquired from the Runes.
Originally posted by Rage.Of.OlympusIf he can cancel his famed invulnerability, then I wouldn't be surprised, if he was able to put Cain down.
An amazing healing factor does not mean you cannot be knocked out. For the Juggernaut his durability made this seem unlikely, but Thor has the ability to remove that meaning, he can put Cain down. Not permanently but enough to be considered a win.
He put him down? When? Thor has never ko'd Cain, ever. Cain has 2 ko victories on him so you can't say he put Cain down at all.
