Gladiator vs WW Hulk (slugfest)

Originally posted by Enyalus
That's not right at all, considering that Hulk was punching him repeatedly after Gladiator was unconscious and weakened from the reactor, and still couldn't kill him before Hulk's pseudo-son stopped him.

I know you don't like it when people cry "PIS" over something, because its usually a copout, but in this case it fits. I mean, this takes place just several months after that lame DC vs. Marvel crossover, in which the fanvote went against Hulk and so he lost to Superman. So what does Marvel do to make the Hulk fanboys happy? Toss in a random appearance by the Imperial Guard and Gladiator, Marvel's Superman, in the Hulk's '97 annual just to "show" those same fans that Hulk can beat a Superman-esque character. Even ignoring the fact that it was PIS, there were a few noticeable things:

Hulk charges Glads from behind to no discernible effect. Gladiator's only blow of the fight knocks him clear off of him and out of that panel. Glads is uninjured and brushing off the dirt on his uniform. Hulk leap-dives at Glads, again from behind, and pounds him into the ground one more time. Again, Glads doesn't seem to be fazed by it, because the next thing we see, Glads has Hulk in a bear-hug and is flying him into orbit, with Hulk marveling at Kallark's durability. That's when Hulk thunderclaps his ears...and obviously, if you have super hearing, that's going to be a major b*tch. Even so, both falling from space and surviving re-entry, it looks like Glads is the first one to get up, and definitely the first to attack, using his HV to do so....Hulk's one impressive feat to me in this fight occurs here, where he walks through the HV while being torn apart by it and places his hand over Kallark's face, causing feedback and making Gladiator flash-fry his own brain to KO himself!

So, completely neglecting forum fight rules and them fighting at peak capacity, using all their abilities such as speed (which if Kallark had done, Hulk would've been toast), etc...let's take a look at things which could have gone differently if PIS hadn't affected that fight:

Gladiator could have chosen not to grab Hulk and take him into outer space. He could have thrown him into orbit. Or punched him into orbit. Or, here's an idea, taken more than 3 seconds to do so (Hulk explains how he had about 3 seconds to do something...this from someone who regularly flies at FTL speeds). Without that, no thunderclapping his ear, no damage to Kallark.

How about The Hulk's durability in his hand being dramatically better than The Hulk's durability in his chest region? I mean, Hulk's chest was being ripped open and Hulk admitted it was killing him. Yet, he can use his hand to block it at even a closer range (right up against Glads' eyes). Come again?

Glads having the ability to...I don't know...stop his heat vision when Hulk puts his hand over his face to avoid frying his own brain with feedback? I mean, I hadn't realized that Kallark had Cyclops' problem. He forgets to stop blasting Hulk. Really? Please.

Hulk both magically knowing that Gladiator has a weakness to radiation, and then knowing exactly what type of radiation it is. 😱 Wow, Hulk's got cosmic awareness, too!

And the final piece of evidence....the fight takes place in a Hulk book! Y'know, the same books where they have Hulk KOing Hyperion with one thunderclap and physically beating a 10x stronger than average Berserk Thor.

Yes. The Gladiator/Hulk fight was highly PIS. Not only that, but it didn't even conclusively prove that Hulk was physically superior to Gladiator, even with the PIS. Anyone who has the fight available, go back and read it, then look at my analysis...Gladiator gets one punch off in the whole fight, and that punch seems to affect Hulk far more than any single blow Hulk lands. Moreover, its Gladiator who KOs himself. Etc.

👆

Originally posted by Enyalus
That's not right at all, considering that Hulk was punching him repeatedly after Gladiator was unconscious and weakened from the reactor, and still couldn't kill him before Hulk's pseudo-son stopped him.

I know you don't like it when people cry "PIS" over something, because its usually a copout, but in this case it fits. I mean, this takes place just several months after that lame DC vs. Marvel crossover, in which the fanvote went against Hulk and so he lost to Superman. So what does Marvel do to make the Hulk fanboys happy? Toss in a random appearance by the Imperial Guard and Gladiator, Marvel's Superman, in the Hulk's '97 annual just to "show" those same fans that Hulk can beat a Superman-esque character. Even ignoring the fact that it was PIS, there were a few noticeable things:

Hulk charges Glads from behind to no discernible effect. Gladiator's only blow of the fight knocks him clear off of him and out of that panel. Glads is uninjured and brushing off the dirt on his uniform. Hulk leap-dives at Glads, again from behind, and pounds him into the ground one more time. Again, Glads doesn't seem to be fazed by it, because the next thing we see, Glads has Hulk in a bear-hug and is flying him into orbit, with Hulk marveling at Kallark's durability. That's when Hulk thunderclaps his ears...and obviously, if you have super hearing, that's going to be a major b*tch. Even so, both falling from space and surviving re-entry, it looks like Glads is the first one to get up, and definitely the first to attack, using his HV to do so....Hulk's one impressive feat to me in this fight occurs here, where he walks through the HV while being torn apart by it and places his hand over Kallark's face, causing feedback and making Gladiator flash-fry his own brain to KO himself!

So, completely neglecting forum fight rules and them fighting at peak capacity, using all their abilities such as speed (which if Kallark had done, Hulk would've been toast), etc...let's take a look at things which could have gone differently if PIS hadn't affected that fight:

Gladiator could have chosen not to grab Hulk and take him into outer space. He could have thrown him into orbit. Or punched him into orbit. Or, here's an idea, taken more than 3 seconds to do so (Hulk explains how he had about 3 seconds to do something...this from someone who regularly flies at FTL speeds). Without that, no thunderclapping his ear, no damage to Kallark.

How about The Hulk's durability in his hand being dramatically better than The Hulk's durability in his chest region? I mean, Hulk's chest was being ripped open and Hulk admitted it was killing him. Yet, he can use his hand to block it at even a closer range (right up against Glads' eyes). Come again?

Glads having the ability to...I don't know...stop his heat vision when Hulk puts his hand over his face to avoid frying his own brain with feedback? I mean, I hadn't realized that Kallark had Cyclops' problem. He forgets to stop blasting Hulk. Really? Please.

Hulk both magically knowing that Gladiator has a weakness to radiation, and then knowing exactly what type of radiation it is. 😱 Wow, Hulk's got cosmic awareness, too!

And the final piece of evidence....the fight takes place in a Hulk book! Y'know, the same books where they have Hulk KOing Hyperion with one thunderclap and physically beating a 10x stronger than average Berserk Thor.

Yes. The Gladiator/Hulk fight was highly PIS. Not only that, but it didn't even conclusively prove that Hulk was physically superior to Gladiator, even with the PIS. Anyone who has the fight available, go back and read it, then look at my analysis...Gladiator gets one punch off in the whole fight, and that punch seems to affect Hulk far more than any single blow Hulk lands. Moreover, its Gladiator who KOs himself. Etc.

Great post dude.

/Respect!

Originally posted by Enyalus
That's not right at all, considering that Hulk was punching him repeatedly after Gladiator was unconscious and weakened from the reactor, and still couldn't kill him before Hulk's pseudo-son stopped him.

I know you don't like it when people cry "PIS" over something, because its usually a copout, but in this case it fits. I mean, this takes place just several months after that lame DC vs. Marvel crossover, in which the fanvote went against Hulk and so he lost to Superman. So what does Marvel do to make the Hulk fanboys happy? Toss in a random appearance by the Imperial Guard and Gladiator, Marvel's Superman, in the Hulk's '97 annual just to "show" those same fans that Hulk can beat a Superman-esque character. Even ignoring the fact that it was PIS, there were a few noticeable things:

Hulk charges Glads from behind to no discernible effect. Gladiator's only blow of the fight knocks him clear off of him and out of that panel. Glads is uninjured and brushing off the dirt on his uniform. Hulk leap-dives at Glads, again from behind, and pounds him into the ground one more time. Again, Glads doesn't seem to be fazed by it, because the next thing we see, Glads has Hulk in a bear-hug and is flying him into orbit, with Hulk marveling at Kallark's durability. That's when Hulk thunderclaps his ears...and obviously, if you have super hearing, that's going to be a major b*tch. Even so, both falling from space and surviving re-entry, it looks like Glads is the first one to get up, and definitely the first to attack, using his HV to do so....Hulk's one impressive feat to me in this fight occurs here, where he walks through the HV while being torn apart by it and places his hand over Kallark's face, causing feedback and making Gladiator flash-fry his own brain to KO himself!

So, completely neglecting forum fight rules and them fighting at peak capacity, using all their abilities such as speed (which if Kallark had done, Hulk would've been toast), etc...let's take a look at things which could have gone differently if PIS hadn't affected that fight:

Gladiator could have chosen not to grab Hulk and take him into outer space. He could have thrown him into orbit. Or punched him into orbit. Or, here's an idea, taken more than 3 seconds to do so (Hulk explains how he had about 3 seconds to do something...this from someone who regularly flies at FTL speeds). Without that, no thunderclapping his ear, no damage to Kallark.

How about The Hulk's durability in his hand being dramatically better than The Hulk's durability in his chest region? I mean, Hulk's chest was being ripped open and Hulk admitted it was killing him. Yet, he can use his hand to block it at even a closer range (right up against Glads' eyes). Come again?

Glads having the ability to...I don't know...stop his heat vision when Hulk puts his hand over his face to avoid frying his own brain with feedback? I mean, I hadn't realized that Kallark had Cyclops' problem. He forgets to stop blasting Hulk. Really? Please.

Hulk both magically knowing that Gladiator has a weakness to radiation, and then knowing exactly what type of radiation it is. 😱 Wow, Hulk's got cosmic awareness, too!

And the final piece of evidence....the fight takes place in a Hulk book! Y'know, the same books where they have Hulk KOing Hyperion with one thunderclap and physically beating a 10x stronger than average Berserk Thor.

Yes. The Gladiator/Hulk fight was highly PIS. Not only that, but it didn't even conclusively prove that Hulk was physically superior to Gladiator, even with the PIS. Anyone who has the fight available, go back and read it, then look at my analysis...Gladiator gets one punch off in the whole fight, and that punch seems to affect Hulk far more than any single blow Hulk lands. Moreover, its Gladiator who KOs himself. Etc.

I don't know how you can even attempt to call pis here? Gladiator attempted to bfr Hulk who at this point couldn't breathe in space and that failed. Regardless of your counter it failed plain and simple.

Kallark then states that he is going to kill the Hulk. He hv's him straight thru to his heart and before he can get there Hulk walks right up to Gladiator and casually redirects the blast severely owning Gladiator's face. At this point he is at the Hulk's mercy even with the damage caused to Hulk's chest. Hulk then drags his broken body to the reactor. Gladiator looked susceptible to anything that the Hulk decided to do at this point. He had more than a few seconds it would appear to resist being thrown into the reactor, but failed to do so.

You seem to have a problem with Gladiator being taken completely off guard by his hv out to kill mind you right back into his own face. It completely stunned him. Blows to the face are much more deadly when unexpected than blows to the chest imo.

I can see that you have problems with how the fight played out, but it is what it is. Hulk won plain and simple.

WW Hulk dominates.

Originally posted by Enyalus
That's not right at all, considering that Hulk was punching him repeatedly after Gladiator was unconscious and weakened from the reactor, and still couldn't kill him before Hulk's pseudo-son stopped him.

I know you don't like it when people cry "PIS" over something, because its usually a copout, but in this case it fits. I mean, this takes place just several months after that lame DC vs. Marvel crossover, in which the fanvote went against Hulk and so he lost to Superman. So what does Marvel do to make the Hulk fanboys happy? Toss in a random appearance by the Imperial Guard and Gladiator, Marvel's Superman, in the Hulk's '97 annual just to "show" those same fans that Hulk can beat a Superman-esque character. Even ignoring the fact that it was PIS, there were a few noticeable things:

Hulk charges Glads from behind to no discernible effect. Gladiator's only blow of the fight knocks him clear off of him and out of that panel. Glads is uninjured and brushing off the dirt on his uniform. Hulk leap-dives at Glads, again from behind, and pounds him into the ground one more time. Again, Glads doesn't seem to be fazed by it, because the next thing we see, Glads has Hulk in a bear-hug and is flying him into orbit, with Hulk marveling at Kallark's durability. That's when Hulk thunderclaps his ears...and obviously, if you have super hearing, that's going to be a major b*tch. Even so, both falling from space and surviving re-entry, it looks like Glads is the first one to get up, and definitely the first to attack, using his HV to do so....Hulk's one impressive feat to me in this fight occurs here, where he walks through the HV while being torn apart by it and places his hand over Kallark's face, causing feedback and making Gladiator flash-fry his own brain to KO himself!

So, completely neglecting forum fight rules and them fighting at peak capacity, using all their abilities such as speed (which if Kallark had done, Hulk would've been toast), etc...let's take a look at things which could have gone differently if PIS hadn't affected that fight:

Gladiator could have chosen not to grab Hulk and take him into outer space. He could have thrown him into orbit. Or punched him into orbit. Or, here's an idea, taken more than 3 seconds to do so (Hulk explains how he had about 3 seconds to do something...this from someone who regularly flies at FTL speeds). Without that, no thunderclapping his ear, no damage to Kallark.

How about The Hulk's durability in his hand being dramatically better than The Hulk's durability in his chest region? I mean, Hulk's chest was being ripped open and Hulk admitted it was killing him. Yet, he can use his hand to block it at even a closer range (right up against Glads' eyes). Come again?

Glads having the ability to...I don't know...stop his heat vision when Hulk puts his hand over his face to avoid frying his own brain with feedback? I mean, I hadn't realized that Kallark had Cyclops' problem. He forgets to stop blasting Hulk. Really? Please.

Hulk both magically knowing that Gladiator has a weakness to radiation, and then knowing exactly what type of radiation it is. 😱 Wow, Hulk's got cosmic awareness, too!

And the final piece of evidence....the fight takes place in a Hulk book! Y'know, the same books where they have Hulk KOing Hyperion with one thunderclap and physically beating a 10x stronger than average Berserk Thor.

Yes. The Gladiator/Hulk fight was highly PIS. Not only that, but it didn't even conclusively prove that Hulk was physically superior to Gladiator, even with the PIS. Anyone who has the fight available, go back and read it, then look at my analysis...Gladiator gets one punch off in the whole fight, and that punch seems to affect Hulk far more than any single blow Hulk lands. Moreover, its Gladiator who KOs himself. Etc.

👆

enyalus has a point, to say the least. but this is a far stronger and better hulk this time, professor/merged hulk wasn't all that special anyway.

Gladiator didn't fight tothe best of the abilities we know he has. He could have flown into the sun with Hulk in a literal blink of an eye, the fact he didn't says nothing about how well Hulk fought, it just says..

Gladiator wasn't written using his abilities to their fullest extent.

Thats PIS imo.

Originally posted by Juk3n
Gladiator didn't fight tothe best of the abilities we know he has. He could have flown into the sun with Hulk in a literal blink of an eye, the fact he didn't says nothing about how well Hulk fought, it just says..

Gladiator wasn't written using his abilities to their fullest extent.

Thats PIS imo.

👆

Originally posted by leonidas
http://img413.imageshack.us/i/hulkann199716a.jpg/

i wasn't commenting on how the fight got to that point, just that once it did, the reactor played little part. in fact, it appears he flew out of the reactor--it didn't even really ko him.

Originally posted by leonidas
i wouldn't say the fight was PIS though. glads used speed, blitz, vision, etc

Originally posted by leonidas
. . . hulk has defeated hyperion as you mentioned and his battles with thor have always been close.

Originally posted by leonidas
can glads beat a regular hulk? sure. is it pis he didn't--not at all imo.

Originally posted by quanchi112
So what? Did you really think that Hulk was going to kill him? How often do characters really die? The point is Hulk completely beat his face into the dirt.

Originally posted by quanchi112
I don't know how you can even attempt to call pis here? Gladiator attempted to bfr Hulk who at this point couldn't breathe in space and that failed. Regardless of your counter it failed plain and simple.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Kallark then states that he is going to kill the Hulk.

Originally posted by quanchi112
He hv's him straight thru to his heart and before he can get there Hulk walks right up to Gladiator and casually redirects the blast severely owning Gladiator's face.

Originally posted by quanchi112
At this point he is at the Hulk's mercy even with the damage caused to Hulk's chest. Hulk then drags his broken body to the reactor. Gladiator looked susceptible to anything that the Hulk decided to do at this point. He had more than a few seconds it would appear to resist being thrown into the reactor, but failed to do so.

Originally posted by quanchi112
You seem to have a problem with Gladiator being taken completely off guard by his hv out to kill mind you right back into his own face. It completely stunned him. Blows to the face are much more deadly when unexpected than blows to the chest imo.

Originally posted by quanchi112
I can see that you have problems with how the fight played out, but it is what it is. Hulk won plain and simple.

Hulk needs the other supes type characters to be handicapped and crap writing to please his fanboys so he can get a win.

A proper written Thor, Supes, Hype, Glads or any type of them on that level could destroy the Hulk.

Originally posted by The Nuul
Hulk needs the other supes type characters to be handicapped and crap writing to please his fanboys so he can get a win.

A proper written Thor, Supes, Hype, Glads or any type of them on that level could destory the Hulk.

This is the truth.

Seriously, that's all there is to it.

Originally posted by Kris Blaze
This is the truth.

Seriously, that's all there is to it.

facepalm

In a non-plot driven scenario Gladiator would embarass and crush the Hulk. Hulk's too slow, and can't match the velocity of the punches.

Hyperion doesn't have the speed, durability or power feats to suggest he could take a Savage or WWH. The rest of Nuul's list, I agree with.

But but but

Originally posted by bbrem123
WWH is just a brick?

Hes a little more then that...He took out all of marvel earth

come on now dont be silly

Lulz.... Strange could have time stopped or BFR Hulk if he was properly written. WWH is a big wank fest.

Originally posted by Enyalus

Gladiator's at the very least flash-KO'd from his own HV. When he gets tossed in the reactor it does look like he flies out, but drops. That's what Hulk comments about 'you think I'm going to stop just because you're out cold?' Or something to that effect. Looks like he was flash-KO'd pre-reactor and then KO'd post reactor. None of which was due to Hulk's power but Glads' own attack and weakness exposure.

No, Glads did not use his speed, otherwise it wouldn't have taken over 3 seconds to fly Hulk from the ground into the upper atmosphere. Glads did not blitz at all. He threw one punch the entire fight. He used his vision, which melted Hulk's chest open and Hulk admitted was killing him. Yet Glads doesn't stop his HV when Hulk's hand is on the back of Kallark's head, nor does he stop when Hulk puts his hand over his face. Also, if it cut right through Hulk's chest, logic - even comic book logic - says it would cut clean through Hulk's hand. That it didn't is PIS. So is everything else I mentioned.

And why have his battles with Thor been close? Because Thor forgets 70% of the things he and his hammer can do and decides to fight like a brick. That's PIS.

Except I just showed how it was. 😛 Without the writer's PIS and having Gladiator operate far below par, Kallark never gets hurt in this fight. Hulk's two sucker punches/tackles/smashes don't hurt, the thunderclap to the ears never happens, and Gladiator doesn't end up accidentally blasting his own brain.

While he was unconscious and defenseless from the reactor core and Hulk was bloodlusted, yes. I fail to see what that proves.

My counter was "PIS" - and I explained that already. Glads flies FTL. Glads bullrushes at FTL. Glads bullrushes at near light speeds, too. Him taking more than 3 seconds to go about ten miles (upper atmosphere/orbit) is ridiculous and PIS.

No he doesn't. He said the planet deserved to be destroyed, though.

Hulk admits the HV was killing him. It was also cutting him open, like you said. The fact that it doesn't go through his hand or that Glads forgets he can turn off his HV while his hand is there is PIS. How are you not getting this?

Duh. Because Gladiator KO'd himself by frying his own brain with his own HV. It wasn't as though Hulk overpowered him and physically beat his ass. Gladiator lost due to Gladiator. And plot induced stupidity.

I have no idea what you're talking about at this point. It wasn't a 'blow to the face'. Hulk put his hand on Gladiator's head. Then in the next panel over his face to block his HV. Hulk's chest is massive and thick. Yet Gladiator's beams cut through Hulk there. Hulk's hand is less thick than his chest, also less massive. Yet it doesn't get cut or burnt at all. PIS.

Hulk never hurt Gladiator throughout their entire fight, save for the thunderclap to his eardrums that Gladiator recovered from before Hulk does. Hulk won due to writer stupidity and Hulk fanboys needing to see their favorite character owning someone who is Superman-like in order to feel better about themselves. [/B]

When has Glads ever tried to bfr someone before this? I think his speed was very fast, but it is what it is. At the end of the day we have to debate with what the writer gives us. We can't throw stuff out because were weren't happy with the result.

Dude, he says NOW DIE after he talks about the planet. You are disappointing me enalyus.
http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa41/quanchi112/HulkANN1997_15b-1.jpg

It is what it is. You cannot excuse an outcome just because you don't like it. Hulk pwned him.

Hulk countered his attempts. The reason Hulk won was because of the Hulk not because Gladiator screwed up.

Like You said the thunderclap changed this fight. The redirection of Glads beams really affected Gladiator and rightfully so. Hulk won at that point and then dragged his sorry ass into the reactor core and then proceeded to stomp him after he was out cold.

http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa41/quanchi112/HulkANN1997_16a.jpg
http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa41/quanchi112/HulkANN1997_17a.jpg

This is called kicking your opponents ass into the dirt.

Originally posted by The Nuul
Hulk needs the other supes type characters to be handicapped and crap writing to please his fanboys so he can get a win.

A proper written Thor, Supes, Hype, Glads or any type of them on that level could destroy the Hulk.

Originally posted by illadelph12
facepalm

In a non-plot driven scenario Gladiator would embarass and crush the Hulk. Hulk's too slow, and can't match the velocity of the punches.

Originally posted by Enyalus
Hyperion doesn't have the speed, durability or power feats to suggest he could take a Savage or WWH. The rest of Nuul's list, I agree with.

Originally posted by The Nuul
Lulz.... Strange could have time stopped or BFR Hulk if he was properly written. WWH is a big wank fest.

when has gladiator ever used lightspeed punches in a battle again . . .? or ever blitzed someone on a planet (or elsewhere) at lightspeeds? if he did, you DO know the havoc that would cause (even speeds anywhere CLOSE to c) to the planet, right? so, anyone?

reason i hate when people cry PIS and the reason i think it's a cheap cop out (most of the time) is because that means you're gonna have to do it A LOT. what that means is that in EVERY BATTLE glad's has EVER FOUGHT, ANYTIME he didn't plunge someone into the sun and use lightspeed punches, EVERYTIME it's pis. it's also a poor debating tactic because it can't be reasonably argued against. it's entirely subjective and is the end of any debate.

it's not pis to me for the simple reason that glads seemed to underestimate hulk, and by the time he figured it out, it was over. hulk used glad's own power against him, stopped a blitz attempt and ultimately it was his healing factor and durability that won the fight for him. would hulk win a rematch? depends on how gladiator fought. glad's could certainly win, but this loss makes sense to me. if they went h2h, hulk would likely win the next time as well.

if someone wants to claim a battle is PIS there is no further point in debating it. but you best be ready to make that PIS claim a very far reaching one indeed.

Originally posted by leonidas
when has gladiator ever used lightspeed punches in a battle again . . .? or ever blitzed someone on a planet (or elsewhere) at lightspeeds? if he did, you DO know the havoc that would cause (even speeds anywhere CLOSE to c) to the planet, right? so, anyone?

reason i hate when people cry PIS and the reason i think it's a cheap cop out (most of the time) is because that means you're gonna have to do it A LOT. what that means is that in EVERY BATTLE glad's has EVER FOUGHT, ANYTIME he didn't plunge someone into the sun and use lightspeed punches, EVERYTIME it's pis. it's also a poor debating tactic because it can't be reasonably argued against. it's entirely subjective and is the end of any debate.

it's not pis to me for the simple reason that glads seemed to underestimate hulk, and by the time he figured it out, it was over. hulk used glad's own power against him, stopped a blitz attempt and ultimately it was his healing factor and durability that won the fight for him. would hulk win a rematch? depends on how gladiator fought. glad's could certainly win, but this loss makes sense to me. if they went h2h, hulk would likely win the next time as well.

if someone wants to claim a battle is PIS there is no further point in debating it. but you best be ready to make that PIS claim a very far reaching one indeed.

Gladiator doesn't throw people into the sun regardless of people saying or or fight entire battles at light speeds. Bout time to see you on the side of right leonidas.