lol, you have to go damn far to beat Kain dont you....yes..well imo Kain cant win this fight, and by the rules of the forum I dont think Kains invulerability is allowed so Kain and Raziel are likely defeated, Ganon without his immunity would be vulerable but neither Raziel nor Kain are strength.
Altho what has Ganon actually shown to be durable to? what damage has he taken without his immunity?
Originally posted by Burning thoughtGanon has survived the only weapon that can kill him, [read; his invulnerability was not a factor] through his skull on multiple occasions.
lol, you have to go damn far to beat Kain dont you....yes..well imo Kain cant win this fight, and by the rules of the forum I dont think Kains invulerability is allowed so Kain and Raziel are likely defeated, Ganon without his immunity would be vulerable but neither Raziel nor Kain are strength.Altho what has Ganon actually shown to be durable to? what damage has he taken without his immunity?
Edit: I should mention that in OoT Link was capable of throwing a stone weighing 1000+tons over his shoulder casually, and stabbed/slashed Ganon in the face four consecutive times, complete with blood spraying everywhere. Ganon di not die, he was just very, very angry.
Their feats are not consistent, tossing a rock that YOU have apprently worked out to be that weight does not mean that it was in the fictional world link excists in not to mention the fact how many times as he done such a feat of strength as you believe?
If link really did have such strength he would trample his way throguh the world, castles, fortresses and then crush all foes with his hands, he would never use a sword...obvioulsy this is not the case.
Originally posted by Burning thought
Their feats are not consistent, tossing a rock that [b]YOU have apprently worked out to be that weight does not mean that it was in the fictional world link excists in not to mention the fact how many times as he done such a feat of strength as you believe?If link really did have such strength he would trample his way throguh the world, castles, fortresses and then crush all foes with his hands, he would never use a sword...obvioulsy this is not the case. [/B]
Let this fool tell it, and there's always a problem.
Originally posted by Burning thought
Their feats are not consistent, tossing a rock that [b]YOU have apprently worked out to be that weight does not mean that it was in the fictional world link excists in not to mention the fact how many times as he done such a feat of strength as you believe?If link really did have such strength he would trample his way throguh the world, castles, fortresses and then crush all foes with his hands, he would never use a sword...obvioulsy this is not the case. [/B]
Originally posted by ScreamPaste
You're argument would make sense if Zelda were movie. Games, especially from the cartridge era, are a very limited medium. OoT is a 32 MB game. To program the game the way you described is impossible. Link is established canonicly to have that strength, you need to lift that rock to beat the game, and there are three such games. It's black granite, and the math shown is EXTREMELY conservative. [Read, I rounded it down everywhere possible] just to be fair. I even mathed it as the lighter white granite. By canon, Ganon is even stronger than Link. This cage match is.. Lollersauce. =/ Ganon crushes them into paste.
So? you cant surely be blaming the game for the fact Link is not just smashing his fists through his environment, its absurd to think so, hes always used swords, weapons etc, infact hes one of those characters who has hundreds of items, he wouldnt really need any of them if he could actually punch his way through most obstacles and toss objects around so much. And the only reason you assume ganon has such high strength is because he has taken blows from link.
but thats your problem, you mathed it, the developers dont say he is that strong, do they even claim its black granite or do we assume thats what it looks closest to to a rock in our world? , for all you know that was not to be taken seriously, I mean lets be serious here, Link has no consistent feat of huge strength, the characters and events in the part sof the game ive seen from videos people have posted around here are not as serious as God of War, Legacy of Kain etc, their prob not far off from Mario and we can all agree Mario does a lot of ridiculous things that cannot be taken seriously in his actual consistent feats list.
Originally posted by Burning thought
So? you cant surely be blaming the game for the fact Link is not just smashing his fists through his environment, its absurd to think so, hes always used swords, weapons etc, infact hes one of those characters who has hundreds of items, he wouldnt really need any of them if he could actually punch his way through most obstacles and toss objects around so much. And the only reason you assume ganon has such high strength is because he has taken blows from link.but thats your problem, you mathed it, the developers dont say he is that strong, do they even claim its black granite or do we assume thats what it looks closest to to a rock in our world? , for all you know that was not to be taken seriously, I mean lets be serious here, Link has no consistent feat of huge strength, the characters and events in the part sof the game ive seen from videos people have posted around here are not as serious as God of War, Legacy of Kain etc, their prob not far off from Mario and we can all agree Mario does a lot of ridiculous things that cannot be taken seriously in his actual consistent feats list.
So you're suggesting that Zelda COMPLETELY snap it's own gameplay over it's knee just because Link's got god-like strength? Yes, in the guide it's stated to be granite, it's dark colour is consistent with black granite. No, it's not toonforce, OoT is a very seriously themed game. No, Link doesn't randomly smash through walls, one, because the system couldn't handle it, and two, because it'd snap the gameplay aspect of the GAME over it's knee like a dry twig.
It's canon, you need to do it to beat the game, there's no way around it.
Originally posted by Burning thought
Their feats are not consistent, tossing a rock that [b]YOU have apprently worked out to be that weight does not mean that it was in the fictional world link excists in not to mention the fact how many times as he done such a feat of strength as you believe?If link really did have such strength he would trample his way throguh the world, castles, fortresses and then crush all foes with his hands, he would never use a sword...obvioulsy this is not the case. [/B]
Don't forget the fact that Link used gauntlets to do that. That was not done on his pure strength. Its funny how throughout OOT Link still struggles to move big blocks even while having the gauntlets. So its safe to say that the gauntlets only gave him strength to lift the pillar and nothing else otherwise he wouldn't struggle to push or pull blocks.
Originally posted by Wei Phoenix
Don't forget the fact that Link used gauntlets to do that. That was not done on his pure strength. Its funny how throughout OOT Link still struggles to move big blocks even while having the gauntlets. So its safe to say that the gauntlets only gave him strength to lift the pillar and nothing else otherwise he wouldn't struggle to push or pull blocks.
Actually, this proves nothing other than they saw no need for a new animation. The one they had was integral to every part of the game, infact. The rhythm and spacing needed to be consistent. Given that at 32 MB it's impossible to add anything more to the game[Cartridge space constraints] your claim is game mechanics, and nothing more. The gauntlets give him strength, canon fact. This is the same as Mario throwing Bowser long distances, and carrying King Bob bomb with the same animation he uses to carry baby penguins. They simply saw no need for a new animation.
Originally posted by ScreamPaste
So you're suggesting that Zelda COMPLETELY snap it's own gameplay over it's knee just because Link's got god-like strength? Yes, in the guide it's stated to be granite, it's dark colour is consistent with black granite. No, it's not toonforce, OoT is a very seriously themed game. No, Link doesn't randomly smash through walls, one, because the system couldn't handle it, and two, because it'd snap the gameplay aspect of the GAME over it's knee like a dry twig.It's canon, you need to do it to beat the game, there's no way around it.
No ime saying your wrong and that obviously he does not have godlike strength, the only excuse for the entirety of the game requiring link to do all these things, gain a new sword, etc etc is that obvioulsy the developers overlooked the size or weight of the stone, or they simply dont give us the information I dont assume players will belive Link has this strength, for all we know its a diffrent type of granite, and seriously themed? not so sure about that, it seems more geared towards whats fun rather than seriousness and its not a adult rated game so its obvioulsy leaning more towards light hearted ness.
You need to do it? does that mean Link actually did it? was there a cutscene and everything to go along with it?
Also Wei says this:
Originally posted by Wei Phoenix
Link still struggles to move big blocks even while having the gauntlets. So its safe to say that the gauntlets only gave him strength to lift the pillar and nothing else otherwise he wouldn't struggle to push or pull blocks.
Obviously the feat is inconsistent, not just because there is probably not another feat like it in the game, but according to this information he struggles with other blocks.
Now cant you see how your answer to that is redundant?
Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Actually, this proves nothing other than they saw no need for a new animation. The one they had was integral to every part of the game, infact. The rhythm and spacing needed to be consistent. Given that at 32 MB it's impossible to add anything more to the game[Cartridge space constraints] your claim is game mechanics, and nothing more. The gauntlets give him strength, canon fact. This is the same as Mario throwing Bowser long distances, and carrying King Bob bomb with the same animation he uses to carry baby penguins. They simply saw no need for a new animation.
They saw no need for a diffrent animation.....thats your excuse...the developers were lazy or not interested desp[ite an inconsistent feat, its not even pointed out in the actual game how heavy it was, you are the one who estimated its weight according to your own idea of what kind of granite it must have been.
You keep going on about game sizes but thats probably why they didnt care that Link did something its obvious in real with the rest of teh games canon would be impossible, a bit of light highted entertainment, they didnt think their viewers would take this one scene as his main strength, perhaps they believed the hint that he required hundreds of items and had main enemies such as the also fairly strength featless Ganon at least in comaprison to your evaluation of links strength was enough to make people realise his strength is not actually that high consistently.
Originally posted by Burning thought
lol, you have to go damn far to beat Kain dont you....yes..well imo Kain cant win this fight, and by the rules of the forum I dont think Kains invulerability is allowed so Kain and Raziel are likely defeated, Ganon without his immunity would be vulerable but neither Raziel nor Kain are strength.Altho what has Ganon actually shown to be durable to? what damage has he taken without his immunity?
Ganon tanked Valoo's fire in Wind Waker. He took the sages sword through the chest in Twilight Princess. My god, in OoT the sword was stabbed through his skull and he still came back.
Zelda and Link didn't even plan to kill Ganon in OoT because they knew they couldn't, even with the Master Sword. They only planned to seal him away.
But I was referring not to his invinciblity, apprently his triforce of power gives him some sort of invulerablility.
But by the sound sof it, physically he is almost as unkillable as Kain but according to your words, he can still be sliced, damaged etc, so by that what damage has he taken? I mean, what impressive act did he fully tank without taking a single bit of damage.
BT, you're being silly, sir. Tanking sword attacks from Link pretty much makes Ganon invulnerable to Kain and Raziel physicly damaging him.
Yes, there is a mini cut-scene, and no, it's not light hearted amusement. The game is seriously themed, rated M does not equal mature, it just means swearing and boobs. OoT Was rated E, and yet maturely carried an excellent story. In the last temple, Ganon's castle, Link lifts and throws this stone with ease; a demonstration of raw, god-like strength, if anything.
EDIT: Infact, it was clearly intended as such, the camera pans out to show the full girth of the stone, which by the way IS granite, and IS too dark to be anything BUT Black granite. The stone easily weighs atleast 1300 tons, calling it a simple 1000+ is an act of mercy, and downrounding beyond reasonable.
Your claim of inconsistency is simple game play.
Sure if we imagine your idea of Links godlike strength......also can you show me the canon where Link is wearing the gauntlets and actually slicing into Ganon with him taking no damage....
No its simple inconsistency, the only time he throws a stone of that size in the game and yet all others are hard to lift, and the entire games storyline and setting as well as all the many items he uses despite this apprent strength your giving him excist. If he had anywhere near close to that strength he wouldnt use swords or other weapons at all, it would wreck the fact that most of the beings he fights could in theory be killed with a slap or a pebble throw.
EDIT: too dark to be anything other than black granite in a real world, not a fictional one.
Like I said, that'd break gameplay cleanly over his knee. I'm not inventing this BT, it's canon. And actually, if you have strength like that, a sword only magnifies the damage you're capable of immensely. And there's a cut scene of Ganon getting slashed and stabbed in the face with the master sword itself, blood flying, and the blade being plunged into his skull. He's obviously wounded, but does not die from what should be a fatal wound. The mastersword nullifies his invulnerability, and that still didn't kill him.
Go back to 1998 and complain to Nintendo that they need to tack an extra 10 MB of programming to a 32 MB cartride that's already full, and ruin the gameplay, destroying one of the greatest games of all tiem for a little realism.
Gameplay vs canon, canon wins. His strength is canon, the animations are gameplay.
Edit; and no. The stones are stated to be granite, and the colour of granite reflects it's density, the darker the colour, the denser the stone. Black granite is just very dense granite, the stone in game is very, very dark.
No it wouldnt just break gameplay, it would break the entire game, not the just the gameplay, Link could literally by law kick over Ganons castle and bury him in it while tunneling his way through Hyrule or w/e the place is called, such strength does not excist and complaining that its just because they didnt have the space on the drive. No if you have strength like that the sword would just end up as squished goo in your hand unless it was invulerable in which case it would still be irrelvent, the time he takes to move across the world to find various weapons, items swords etc, he could just flick his enemies into oblivion according to you....obvioulsy not the case. But not by Link? does Ganon or does he not get canonically slashed by Link? not that its relevent, the weight and specifics are things you have mathed, not actual canon, the feat is nullified by the fact that such strength would break LoZ lore AND gameplay and make a lot of the events futile and completly full of PIS. Its like suggesting the entire game is PIS because of links godly strength you think he has.