Ganondorf vs. Kain and Raziel With a Twist

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Actually, that portion of the game's confused players for eleven years now, because it contradicts everythign in the canon. It was included to add a challenge; many people wouldn't have the biggoron sword and would be forced to fight with the hammer, making this boss section harder.

Outside of the canon, in these debates, he can be hurt by other weapons for obvious reasons, in the canon, he can't, that part's just wierd. Eitherway, it's irrelevant, Ganon still roflstomps.

Him being a class 1000 contradicts all Zelda canon.

Originally posted by Wei Phoenix
Where was it stated in the game that Link is a 1000 tonner? Hulk is 100+ because its stated, so is Juggernaut, Gladiator, Colossus and etc. You are the only one with this assumption.

Ganon loses to a gauntletless weaker version of a different Link.
YouTube video

Actually, in WW you get power bracelets to lift a massive stone head. I win again.

Originally posted by Wei Phoenix
Him being a class 1000 contradicts all Zelda canon.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
When you get it he has no gauntlets, and they're not gonna program two seperate stances with it. Allowing you to use it in one hand with a sheild means there's no reason to use the master sword, it's about variety. Also, using a two handed sword in one hand is inneficient, it's not due to the weight, it's the length and design of such a weapon. Medieval greatswords only weighed around eight pounds.

In conclusion, your point is moot.

Ike wields a heavy ass two handed sword with one hand and swings it effortlessly and jumps super high in the air with it.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Actually, it doesn't, and it's suported by the canon. 😐

He struggles to push and pull blocks so I think not. Why can't he one shot monsters in TP?

Originally posted by Wei Phoenix
Ike wields a heavy ass two handed sword with one hand and swings it effortlessly and jumps super high in the air with it.

FE is also turnbased, allowing Ike to do whatever he likes, but is canonicly weaker than Link. BTW, Ragnell would weigh about 10 pounds tops? Big whoop.

Like I said, variet. sheild and sword vs two hander. sheild and sword vs sheild and longer sword? No fun in that, and it is a game.

Originally posted by Wei Phoenix
He struggles to push and pull blocks so I think not. Why can't he one shot monsters in TP?

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Actually, that portion of the game's confused players for eleven years now, because it contradicts everythign in the canon. It was included to add a challenge; many people wouldn't have the biggoron sword and would be forced to fight with the hammer, making this boss section harder.

Outside of the canon, in these debates, he can be hurt by other weapons for obvious reasons, in the canon, he can't, that part's just wierd. Eitherway, it's irrelevant, Ganon still roflstomps.

Contradicts everything in the canon? like Links apparently amazing strength...regardless, Link does not in canon have the master sword to defeat Ganon in those first stages, read this again IN CANON.....

No in the canon he can, and that parts just weird? kinda like another part in LOZ games....oh yeh I remember, tossing a ridiculously sized rock. Theres too much evidence against that actually being a real feat of strength, youve created most of the evidence for me to use against you, whether the reason its "fun" or the memory was not enough to make a better animation, or its just "weird" in your last comment.....

Maybe its just weird because you dont like it because it makes Ganon look wimpy.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
LOL. Ganon being hurt by Link makes him lose to Kain and Raziel? WTF?

Firstly, I handed you facts, you chose to ignore them, they are canon.

Secondly, plot device immunity is off, leaving only Ganon's durability anyway, which is beyond Kain or Raziel physicly damaging him. Wouldn't happen, he's too buff. A 1000+ tonner can't one shot him, or even ten shot him; they're not 1000 shotting him.

You clearly know nothing about the Zelda games as you've been in the dark about the on-goings in OoT this entire time, claiming light heartedness and lack of seriousness. Fact is, canon>your attempts at downplaying it through gameplay.

Zelda has many unchanging gameplay elements, they're not changing just because Link has incredible strength. In TP Link still moves the blocks slowly, this is to allow the player to place them where he wants to solve the puzzles. TP Link throws a 200+ ton Goron like a ball. Need I say more? In the 64 bit era this would be even more prominent.

Ganon wins this, it's spite.

Yes because aside from your weird opinions and hypocritical view on links strength, he has very little power feats that ive seen thats for sure and most of the LOZ unvierse seems on a much lower power level to those in other universes.

Their not facts at all, if the rock was in the real world, and could be taken as 100% canon (hell its in the real world in my example so it would be beyond canon) then you would be right, however you are not for the same reasons youve brought up for there not being animations and other reasons for strange things in LOZ.

Canon does, unfortunaltey canon is not on your side neither is common sense or a bearing on the rest of the game ,yo ucant ignore a whole game just because one feat takes your fancy especially after going on about how some weakneses Link has shown is apprently faults in the develoeprs not being able to fit the memory.

Once again, is the 200+ ton your own math? or an official statement....or yet another one of these handy moments where apprently developer design is not at fault, but ime just being foolisn aint I, because the developer is only at fault if Link is showing weakness...my bad....

Originally posted by Wei Phoenix
There is another sword in the game for Link to use. The Big Goron Sword which is a bonus weapon that is huge long and strong. Here's the kicker, the sword is so big and heavy that the 1000+ tonner Link has to use it with two hands.

So he has to use two hands for this sword as well......it shows how daft these assumptions of strength are based on light hearted fun.

That entire post is crap, lol. Link gets a cut scene to show off his thousand plus tonnerness. Sorry, you can't argue with a cut scene, or facts. =]

Could that rock been hollow?

That may be another interesting question....

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Ike is in a different game, produced by a different group of people under the same company.

FE is also turnbased, allowing Ike to do whatever he likes, but is canonicly weaker than Link. BTW, Ragnell would weigh about 10 pounds tops? Big whoop.

Like I said, variet. sheild and sword vs two hander. sheild and sword vs sheild and longer sword? No fun in that, and it is a game.

Ike is weaker? He is a better swordsman, Ragnell trumps the Master Sword, he is smarter, and Aether means he wins.

@ArtificialGlory: Look at your sig.

Why would Ragnell trump the Master Sword? And why the hell would Ike be smarter? The entire basis of Boss fights in LoZ is to find their weak points and abuse them. Not to mention that Link can automatically use any new item he gets right away.

Apparently there is a congregation of idiots on the site today.

I shall start with refuting that retarded claim that Ganon can be hurt by other blades than the Master Sword.

YouTube video

Look about 1:15, Link charges Ganon with a blade, a blade that actually IS the Master Sword, only it is missing its full power. We hear a noise that is similar to steel colliding with steel, and see Ganon is unharmed by the attack. Ganon then explains,"You cannot defeat me with a blade that does not sparkle with the power to repel evil! What you hold is useless," clearly stating that only the full power of the Master Sword can harm him. This vid also shows Valoo attacking Ganondorf, lighting his fort on fire, we later see when returning to Forsaken Fortress that the section of the fort Ganon was in collapsed, and the rest of the fort is also wrecked. No one bothered to put the translated version on Youtube for some gay reason, but Valoo then tells the King of Red Lions,"Ganon cannot be harmed by simple rage and fire," indicating that Ganon was unharmed.

Secondly, the granite lifting in OoT.

First of all, dude, ScreamPaste, let's be honest, they don't know exactly how much that fvcking rock weighs. Don't be foolish. HOWEVER, it is clearly much heavier than anything Raziel or Kain have ever lifted. As for the block pushing, ignorant. It is simple game animation. It is the same reason why Kratos could toss the Collossus of Rhodes, but then in the gameplay you have to repeatedly tap R1 for Kratos to slowly lift a barred gate. It does not discredit the feat.

Also, here is a more reputable feat.

YouTube video

Link from Twilight Princess is the mightiest version thus far, this version was able to toss a huge Goron, which are living, solid rock, which was also wearing heavy armor, like a rag-doll. Once again, stronger than anything Kain or Raziel has done. And Ganondorf was able to physically clash with this Link.

As for Windwaker, dude, Link constantly wear gauntlets which lets him toss large boulders easily.

Also, on the subject of speed, Ganon has two decent speed feats, both of which are greater than Kain or Raziel's.

YouTube video

About 1:18 seconds in, near instantly he closes the gap between himself and Link, beating him unconscious before he can react, Link has always consistently portrayed with impressive agility and speed.

YouTube video

Ganon, after being dead moments before, revived by the Triforce of Power, broke free from his change and in a moment had rushed a Sage and killed it with a punch. This is also notable as it is a H2H feat, he disintegrated a Sage with a quick punch. And before anyone says,"LOLZ HE GOT KILLED BY A SWORD THAT WASNT THE MASTER SWORD" he did not have the Triforce of Power when he was impaled, by some "Divine Prank" he was granted it upon his death. How or why this happened has yet to be explained. Also, this sword was a powerful sword created by the Sages, which was able to clash with the Master Sword.

So yeah, Ganon ftw.

Thanks for showing up, TGE. BT and Wei were tiring me out x.x

And no, we can't know exactly how much the stone weighed, but that's why I rounded all my numbers down, to err on the conservative side.

Dude, I HIGHLY doubt that the creators were thinking that stone was 1,000 tons or more when they had him do that.

I doubt they cared =P The way they presented it shows it was meant to be impressive, they wanted the block to be huge and imposing, and it was. If I presented the math to Shiggy he'd probably smile shrug. It was meant to be a strength feat, and it's a good one, imho.

It is a great strength feat.

But labeling it so huge is a bit drastic IMO.

Eh, like I said, there's a reason I rounded it down, too many variables. I understand that game designers don't look at things liek that in depth, but at the same time, ti was clearly meant to be impressive, and show strength. So.. eh.

Also, it's been my personal mission to rep underrated characters on this forum. Especially Link, being the Zelda fan that I am, so maybe I highlight it too much, but I do get tired of peopel claiming any idiot with a gun can take him.

Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
@ArtificialGlory: Look at your sig.

Why would Ragnell trump the Master Sword? And why the hell would Ike be smarter? The entire basis of Boss fights in LoZ is to find their weak points and abuse them. Not to mention that Link can automatically use any new item he gets right away.

Ragnell has killed an actual Goddess, not just someone with the power of a God. Ragnell has range in spades. Ike is smarter because he is the leader of the Ike's Mercenaries, its his job to know strategy and stuff like that. He fights actual smart people and not just mindless monsters. He has fought Ashnard, General Zelgius, Ashera, and other skilled swordsmen and won. His reflexes are better, he is able to dodge Beast and Bird Laguz. Ike fights armies with only like 8 other people helping him. Aether counters any damage Link does to him. In a sword fight Ike stomps him.