Judging by movie feats, Batman would hold his own against Ozy for about, maybe, the same amount of time that Rorschach held ground against the swarm of cops.
Then Ozy would kiss Bats goodnight.
Ozymandias was deliberately powered up to the level he is, in both the graphic novel and film, but at a superhuman level.
Batman is the pinnacle of human perfection, but at a more realistic level.
Movie feats would favor Ozy here.
Originally posted by RobtardDr Manhattan is so removed from humanity that he doesn't see the need for plot or tact. He is a government stooge, a shill, a tool. And we can't forget that Jon COULD have stopped the explosion in NYC if he really wanted too. He is possible of being in several places at once.
Why does out-smarting a god-like being not count here, yet outsmarting a human like Raj Al Ghul count? Considering intelligence, resourcefulness and outright craftiness can make or break this fight?Again, Ozymandias out-smarting Dr. Manhattan and pulling off a stunt that tricked the entire world and all it's governments out-shadows anything Batman has done(by a lot too), including outwitting Raj Al Ghul.
I'm sorry, he knew the gunman would be coming, that doesn't counter he still ****ing avoided multiple rounds due to sheer speed and skill. Who cares if he was trained by a nun, we saw him fight, we saw his speed and we saw his strength.
What it comes down too, we have two very formidable guys. Ozy is smarter, faster and stronger than Batman, going off movie eats.
Ozy if anything has it easier than Batman. He is both the richest man in the world and an ex vigilante with supurb fighting abilities. The fat cats in the government or other corporations would never touch him because of the service he did for their country. Batman has to deal with mobsters, The Joker, the Feds, the City Government, intenational terrorists and ninjas. 😉
It doesn't matter how good Ozys skills are, Batman would know what he was planning against him and would counteract it. And Rorschach is only as good as the location he is in. His grapple gun would bounce off of Batmans armor.
Originally posted by Dr Will HatchWrong. Jon's perception of time was clouded by the tachyons that Veidt used.
Dr Manhattan is so removed from humanity that he doesn't see the need for plot or tact. He is a government stooge, a shill, a tool. And we can't forget that Jon COULD have stopped the explosion in NYC if he really wanted too. He is possible of being in several places at once.
Originally posted by Dr Will Hatch
Ozy if anything has it easier than Batman. He is both the richest man in the world and an ex vigilante with supurb fighting abilities. The fat cats in the government or other corporations would never touch him because of the service he did for their country. Batman has to deal with mobsters, The Joker, the Feds, the City Government, intenational terrorists and ninjas. 😉
Doesn't matter. The GCPD acknowledges Batman for his service. Can we say "Bat-signal"? Apples and oranges, sir.
Originally posted by Dr Will Hatch
It doesn't matter how good Ozys skills are, Batman would know what he was planning against him and would counteract it. And Rorschach is only as good as the location he is in. His grapple gun would bounce off of Batmans armor.
You're describing the strong points of BOTH people. Bats and Ozy are renowned for their planning skills. How do you think that Ozy bested Jon?
Originally posted by Impediment
Wrong. Jon's perception of time was clouded by the tachyons that Veidt used.
Jon is supposed to be a genius in his own right, why didn't he figure that someone was screwing with his perception? And Jon STILL could have crushed Adrian like an ant and stopped his plot, I'm sure you remember the termite monologue
Originally posted by Impediment
Doesn't matter. The GCPD acknowledges Batman for his service. Can we say "Bat-signal"? Apples and oranges, sir.
Only Jim Gordan and the few good cops on the force. You know how corrupt Gotham is, right? 😕
Originally posted by ImpedimentOzy was never shown to have great planning skills against people as smart as Batman.
You're describing the strong points of BOTH people. Bats and Ozy are renowned for their planning skills. How do you think that Ozy bested Jon?
Originally posted by Dr Will Hatch
It doesn't matter how good Ozys skills are, Batman would know what he was planning against him and would counteract it. And Rorschach is only as good as the location he is in. His grapple gun would bounce off of Batmans armor.
You're bias is laughable, you're saying Batman would just counter anything Ozymandias would/could potentially do, due to his abilities, yet ignore that Ozymandias did far (and by a lot) greater.
Ozymandias out-thought a god-like being (if only momentarily) and set a plot that fooled all the governments of the world, yet movie-feats Batman is someone going to best him?
In short, your argument is "Batman wins because he's the Batman."
Originally posted by Dr Will Hatch
Jon is supposed to be a genius in his own right, why didn't he figure that someone was screwing with his perception? And Jon STILL could have crushed Adrian like an ant and stopped his plot, I'm sure you remember the termite monologue
Honestly, I dunno. Ask Alan Moore. The fact is, Ozy bested Jon, the most powerful man on Earth, creatively, by f*cking with Jon's noodle.
Originally posted by Dr Will Hatch
Only Jim Gordan and the few good cops on the force. You know how corrupt Gotham is, right? 😕
While this is true, Batman has the respect and the fear of Gotham's resident's. He is both loved and feared. Only at the end of The Dark Knight was he labeled a "murderer" to mask the evil deeds of the Joker and save what hope was left for Gotham City.
Originally posted by Dr Will Hatch
Ozy was never shown to have great planning skills against people as smart as Batman.
You're kidding, right? Ozy planned to have himself almost assassinated, framed Rorschach, mess with Jon's mind, and, in a way, save Earth from killing itself.
All Batman did was install some sonar devices in Gotham's residents' cell phones. Hell, even the Joker's planning scheme was more elaborate than Batman's.
Originally posted by Robtard
You're bias is laughable, you're saying Batman would just counter anything Ozymandias would/could potentially do, due to his abilities, yet ignore that Ozymandias did far (and by a lot) greater.Ozymandias out-thought a god-like being (if only momentarily) and set a plot that fooled all the governments of the world, yet movie-feats Batman is someone going to best him?
In short, your argument is "Batman wins because he's the Batman."
Originally posted by Robtard Just smarter, Dr. Manhattan and arguably Rorschach and Night Owl.What are Batman on-screen intelligence feats?]
Figuring out Ra's Al Ghuls plot
Taking back his fathers company right out from under the ex president of Wayne Enterprises
General knowledge of where everyone is going to be at all times, perhaps best exemplified by the early TDK scene with the Scarecrow(Sans The Joker)
Impressive Detective work
Building that giant sonar machine within a few hours of the bomb threat at Gotham Hospital
Taking down a whole SWAT Team on the fly
Unfortunatly, Nolan didn't make Batman as smart as he should be in the movies. He's still capable of beating Ozymandias based on movie feats though.
Originally posted by Dr Will Hatch
Unfortunatly, Nolan didn't make Batman as smart as he should be in the movies. He's still capable of beating Ozymandias based on movie feats though.
Wrong. Nolan did a fine job of making Batman evenly powered and smart, just like from the comics.
However, we aren't judging by comic feats. remember: here we judge by MOVIE feats only.
How is Bats capable of besting Ozy? Nite Owl, in a way, is a generic rip-off of Batman, and had his ass handed to him by Ozy.
Originally posted by Impediment
Honestly, I dunno. Ask Alan Moore. The fact is, Ozy bested Jon, the most powerful man on Earth, creatively, by f*cking with Jon's noodle.
Ever hear the expression "Reed Richards is Useless"? They spoke too soon. Jon is smart only in a few areas, he's probably a savant.
[i]While this is true, Batman has the respect and the fear of Gotham's resident's. He is both loved and feared. Only at the end of The Dark Knight was he labeled a "murderer" to mask the evil deeds of the Joker and save what hope was left for Gotham City..[/B]
And people respect and fear Ozymandias, on a much higher level. He gets it easy because people are too intimidated by him.
[i]You're kidding, right? Ozy planned to have himself almost assassinated, framed Rorschach, mess with Jon's mind, and, in a way, save Earth from killing itself.Aside from the tachyon machine he built, Ozy never did much of anything that Bruce couldn't have done, if not better. Remember, Bruce Wayne is one of the richest men on Earth and the consummate playboy and media darling. The fact that he convinced people that he's just a young billionaire douche and avoids the paparazzi is impressive just as much as what Adrian did, probably more so.All Batman did was install some sonar devices in Gotham's residents' cell phones. Hell, even the Joker's planning scheme was more elaborate than Batman's. [/B]
Originally posted by Impediment
Wrong. Nolan did a fine job of making Batman evenly powered and smart, just like from the comics.However, we aren't judging by comic feats. remember: here we judge by MOVIE feats only.
How is Bats capable of besting Ozy? Nite Owl, in a way, is a generic rip-off of Batman, and had his ass handed to him by Ozy.
Batman would discover whatever grandious plot Adrian was plotting and neutralize it probably. Also, he would train harder and get the proper intel on how to beat Adrian in a direct confrontation.
Originally posted by Dr Will Hatch
Batman would discover whatever grandious plot Adrian was plotting and neutralize it probably. Also, he would train harder and get the proper intel on how to beat Adrian in a direct confrontation.
There you go again: hypothesizing.
We have to go buy what we saw on screen. Period.
Originally posted by Dr Will Hatch
Aside from the tachyon machine he built, Ozy never did much of anything that Bruce couldn't have done, if not better. Remember, Bruce Wayne is one of the richest men on Earth and the consummate playboy and media darling. The fact that he convinced people that he's just a young billionaire douche and avoids the paparazzi is impressive just as much as what Adrian did, probably more so.
Operative word, Hatch: couldn't have. Meaning, essentially, he didn't on screen, and is a moot point here in the MVF.
You're still clinging to Batman, in my opinion, from spite, dude.
Are you really arguing that Batman wins simply cuz he's Batman?
BTW, I'm not trying to sound like a dick.
Originally posted by ImpedimentI'm saying that Batman has better feats.
There you go again: hypothesizing.We have to go buy what we saw on screen. Period.
Operative word, Hatch: couldn't have. Meaning, essentially, he didn't on screen, and is a moot point here in the MVF.
You're still clinging to Batman, in my opinion, from spite, dude.
Are you really arguing that Batman wins simply cuz he's Batman?
BTW, I'm not trying to sound like a dick.
Adrian being called the Smartest Man Alive is not a movie feat. He was easily defeated by Dr Manhattan when he showed up. His plan easily could have been foiled. Batman deals with people more on his level and mostly defeats them.
Originally posted by Dr Will Hatch
I'm saying that Batman has better feats.Adrian being called the Smartest Man Alive is not a movie feat. He was easily defeated by Dr Manhattan when he showed up. His plan easily could have been foiled. Batman deals with people more on his level and mostly defeats them.
Yet he actually doesn't, going by movie feats.
Correct, but he factually proved it, as he out-smarted a god-like being (if only temporarily) and he tricked the entire planet, that in out itself counters anything Batman has done in BB and TDK intelligence-wise.
Ozy also wasn't "defeated", his plan played out exactly as he had planned, he tricked the entire world and counted on Dr. Manhattan seeing his logic (of making Dr. H the villain) and going along with it. Trying to destroy him was a safety measure.
From a H2H standpoint, Ozy is faster and stronger.
So really, you have no valid argument.
Originally posted by Dr Will Hatch
I'm saying that Batman has better feats.Adrian being called the Smartest Man Alive is not a movie feat. He was easily defeated by Dr Manhattan when he showed up. His plan easily could have been foiled. Batman deals with people more on his level and mostly defeats them.
Manhattan defeating Veidt is laughable. Remember? The "Termite monologue".
Batman does NOT, in fact, deal with people on his own level, physically, strategically, and mentally. The Scarecrow? The Joker? Ra's? All defeated by Bats' brain power. And we also have to include the common thugs a la Joe Chill.
Originally posted by Impediment
Also, I might remind you, from reading Rob's posts, Ozy picked up Blake like a rag doll and threw him out of a plate glass window.Show me on scene from either Batman Begins or The Dark Knight where Batman displays such strength.
All the WM crew showed greater strength than peak human. Even the skinny chic was strong enough to toss large men about and shatter arms/legs with just one hit.
Originally posted by RobtardIf Jon was a god like being, he would of known someone was trying to **** with him. One of his main powers is seeing the future. 😉
Yet he actually doesn't, going by movie feats.Correct, but he factually proved it, as he out-smarted a god-like being (if only temporarily) and he tricked the entire planet, that in out itself counters anything Batman has done in BB and TDK intelligence-wise.
Ozy also wasn't "defeated", his plan played out exactly as he had planned, he tricked the entire world and counted on Dr. Manhattan seeing his logic (of making Dr. H the villain) and going along with it. Trying to destroy him was a safety measure.
From a H2H standpoint, Ozy is faster and stronger.
So really, you have no valid argument.
Originally posted by Impediment Manhattan defeating Veidt is laughable. Remember? The "Termite monologue".Ra's Al Ghul and The Joker both have genius level intelligence and a lot of resources, and Scarecrow is in the same ball park. All three of them have a legitimate shot of fu*king up Ozymandias in a confrontation involving prep.Batman does NOT, in fact, deal with people on his own level, physically, strategically, and mentally. The Scarecrow? The Joker? Ra's? All defeated by Bats' brain power. And we also have to include the common thugs a la Joe Chill.[/B]
And do you think Batman would try to fight Ozy without profiling him first?