Galen Marek vs Yoda

Not to mention that cannonicity has been given an order for a reason:

1) G- Canon (movies and statements of George Lucas. Can also include novels of Episode's 1-6).

2) T - Canon (This one is new. But its basically all the new TV series theyre making. So the new CW Animation comes here, and also the new live action series due to come out soon).

3) C- Canon (basically everything else that fits into canon).

Now if it were just a matter of canon or not, then there would be no order here.. No G's and C's.

But there obviously is an order for a reason. So everything in C- Canon can be considered canon as long as it does NOT DIRECTLY CONTRADICT Canon sources T or G. If it does then its not canon.

A good example of this is a story before ROTS stating Ki-Adi-Mundi was appointed to the Jedi Council without being given Mastership. But then ROTS (a G canon source) clearly stated Anakin was the first one to be appointed to the council without being given mastership in Jedi history.

Therfore that specific part of the Ki-Adi-Mundi story is no longer valid and no longer canon. (which does not necessarily mean the WHOLE story is no longer canon)

Originally posted by Borbarad
Absolutely brilliant.

I lift 20 pounds. Then I exeggerate that story, and proclaim that I lifted 20,000 pounds. All over a sudden, I did lift 20,000 pounds. Thanks to truejedi, everybody can be Superman. It just needs a little bit exeggeration to turn everything into reality...

If something is exeggerated and we know that it is, because the creator of a piece of canon told us himself (as it happens in the Clone Wars Volume I DVD commentary), then we do have to think about what is exeggerated and to what extend the original storyline (the basic canon) has been altered. Simply proclaiming "but it's canon" doesn't help. Otherwise anything contained within a canon source is absolute gospel, even when it's stated that it's a lie (e.g. some of Kreia's statements).

You may rename yourself into "truelagoflogic" now. That way, your username can serve as headline to your postings.

If you DID lift the 20k lbs, then indeed it is NOT exaggerating to say so.

Since Mace DID destroy an army with his fists, it is NOT exaggerating to say so.

Since Yoda DID smash ships together, it is NOT exaggerating to say so.

These things DID happen, therefore the feats themselves are not exaggerated. The overall concept of force use is exaggerated, but the feats themselves happened, and therefore ARE a measuring stick of their abilities. Why is that so hard to understand? You are supposed to be intelligent, but here you fail, and hard.

Originally posted by Borbarad
Absolutely brilliant.

I lift 20 pounds. Then I exeggerate that story, and proclaim that I lifted 20,000 pounds. All over a sudden, I did lift 20,000 pounds. Thanks to truejedi, everybody can be Superman. It just needs a little bit exeggeration to turn everything into reality...

If something is exeggerated and we know that it is, because the creator of a piece of canon told us himself (as it happens in the Clone Wars Volume I DVD commentary), then we do have to think about what is exeggerated and to what extend the original storyline (the basic canon) has been altered. Simply proclaiming "but it's canon" doesn't help. Otherwise anything contained within a canon source is absolute gospel, even when it's stated that it's a lie (e.g. some of Kreia's statements).

You may rename yourself into "truelagoflogic" now. That way, your username can serve as headline to your postings.

Actually, it was stated in the commentary of the old cartoons that the feats shown are what the jedi were capable of if they did releash there full power. I believe it was said during Mace's scene on dantooine, either that or it was the part where Yoda callapsed part of the mountain on those droids.

Simply proclaiming "but it ISN'T canon" does not help either, especially when what is shown contradicts your claim. If we go by your logic, then TFU is not canon either since every jedi in it out did anything Yoda has displayed in the movies feat-wise. No one said it was a good idea, but neither was the way Vader easily killed Palpatine after seeing what Palpatine was capable of during his battle with Yoda.

Do you remember which part of the dvd of vol. 1 where the commentary said the feats shown are exaggerated?

Originally posted by truejedi

Since Mace DID destroy an army with his fists, it is NOT exaggerating to say so.

Since Yoda DID smash ships together, it is NOT exaggerating to say so.

These things DID happen, therefore the feats themselves are not exaggerated.

Those things happened only in a cartoon where the use of the force was said to be exaggerated.

Il tell you whats so hard for me to understand, which none of you have given a decent explanation for yet.. If Mace DID destroy an army with his fists and the force alone like you claim, then why did he allow 200 jedis to be killed on Genosia? Why did he not use these amazing abilities there??

If Yoda DID smash ships together, and did take out hunderds of droids with simple shock waves, then where did those abilites disappear to in the first episode of the new CW animation??

Im guessing the only answer im gna get is "doenst matter cause its canon" or "inconsistencies exist deal with it" which is just a cop out way of saying you guys dnt have an answer.

In fact find me anywhere else in the SW Universe where Mace and Yoda display such feats.. Im guessing that you can not.. You know why?? Because the CW mini EXAGGERATED the Jedis use of the Force! Instead of telling me to deal with it, perhaps its you guys who need to start using some logic and common sense and dealing with that simple fact.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66

Simply proclaiming "but it ISN'T canon" does not help either, especially when what is shown contradicts your claim.

I dnt think anyone claimed the show itself isnt canon, but just that the use of the force in it was exaggerated.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66

If we go by your logic, then TFU is not canon either since every jedi in it out did anything Yoda has displayed in the movies feat-wise.

Which Jedi did what in TFU that beats Yoda spinning and chucking a senate pod, easily lifting a sunkun X-Wing(and that was in his really old age)???

It would only be a contradiction if Yoda (or lesser jedis) were suddenly doing things they clearly culdnt do in the movies. If that happens G-Canon takes precedence over C-Canon. And so does T-Canon for that matter.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66

No one said it was a good idea, but neither was the way Vader easily killed Palpatine after seeing what Palpatine was capable of during his battle with Yoda..

Vader took Palpatine by surprise while he was shooting Luke, then had to absorb all his lightning(from which he himself dies), and still needed the Death Star generator to chuck him into.

I hardly call that a complete contradiction to what we see in the ROTS fight.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66

Do you remember which part of the dvd of vol. 1 where the commentary said the feats shown are exaggerated?

Its been said many times by many different people. Not that you need evidence to see a kiddish cartoon was amplifying force powers for entertainment purposes, much like they do in game play mechanics.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER

Im guessing the only answer im gna get is "doenst matter cause its canon" or "inconsistencies exist deal with it" which is just a cop out way of saying you guys dnt have an answer.

Actually , no, inconsistencies DO exist. We gave you about 12 from the movies that you refused to address. If you are going to play the "why didn't they do this" card, then at least don't be such a coward as to not address the post the nails your argument to the wall. I'll quote it again to give you another shot at it.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
-Why in the comic Jedi: Yoda, Yoda used the force to knock a small army of King Alaric's forces unconscience with just a wave of his hand, but never did this in the movies?

-Why in the new clone war series was Mace able to reduce several battle droids to scrap, but did not do this in the movies when it could have been useful?

-Why in ROTS was Sidious able to levitate himself along with several other senate pods, but was unable to save himself from being thrown down a shaft in ROTJ?

-Why is Darth Bane able to move an entire moon, but was exhausted after callapsing a temple.

-Why in TFU Paradus is able to control an entire army of droids, but yet Yoda (the most powerful jedi of his time) struggled with a pillar?

Seriously, I can write a book of "whys" about SW.

BTW, I was joking about the Darth Bane bit.

I actually like his better, because it gives it from a variety of sources. Either you discount all sources ever, or you drop this.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Actually, it was stated in the commentary of the old cartoons that the feats shown are what the jedi were capable of if they did releash there full power. I believe it was said during Mace's scene on dantooine, either that or it was the part where Yoda callapsed part of the mountain on those droids.

That is George Lucas himself saying that.

And DP, before you ask for a source, let me para-quote you "Its been shown many times, go find it if you are interested."

Frustrating isn't it?

Don't complain about ace Windu in the CW when Starkiller does this...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=58Lj0hIXmjA

Iv already addressed this, your just not paying attention to what im saying.

"-Why in ROTS was Sidious able to levitate himself along with several other senate pods, but was unable to save himself from being thrown down a shaft in ROTJ?"

Iv addressed that just in my last post..

"Why in the comic Jedi: Yoda, Yoda used the force to knock a small army of King Alaric's forces unconscience with just a wave of his hand, but never did this in the movies?
-Why in the new clone war series was Mace able to reduce several battle droids to scrap, but did not do this in the movies when it could have been useful?"

You see he's completely missing the point with these examples.. I never said if they dnt do a feat in the movies then they cant do it. Of course your going to see more feats in the whole EU than just in the movies.

But when a feat is shown which COMPLETELY CONTRADICTS whats shown in the movies, then G- Canon is the source to believe. The Force feats done in the cw mini were clearly in a whole different power set.

And none of the above feats were said anywhere by the creators of those stories to be over-the-top exaggerated feats. None of those feats CLEARLY CONTRADICT whats shown in the movies. We didnt really see Yoda take on armies in the movies..
Mace crushing 2 battle droids in with the Force on Ryloth hardly contradicts his abilities on Geonosis in AOTC where he and the other Jedis were facing Hundreds of Droids.

He cant take down hundreds unless he does it commando style. And he certainly cant take down hundreds head on, without his lightsaber, so with just his fists and the force alone! LOL

Its upto you if you wana believ AOTC or if you wana believe an over the top version of the same characters Force Powers as shown for kids entertainment. But you cant believe them both, cause theres a blatant contradiction there. And its not a small contradiction. Its a HUGE ONE!

Originally posted by ares834
Don't complain about ace Windu in the CW when Starkiller does this...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=58Lj0hIXmjA

Well ****.......

Tossing around star destroyer halves with next to zero effort with the Force then tossing around A TIE fighter with his hands.

I'm irritated and impressed.

Darth Power, you can rant and rave all you want about common sense and all that other bullshit; It doesn't mean a damn thing.

Regarding what S66 said; "Actually, it was stated in the commentary of the old cartoons that the feats shown are what the jedi were capable of if they did releash there full power. I believe it was said during Mace's scene on dantooine, either that or it was the part where Yoda callapsed part of the mountain on those droids."

And TJ; "That is George Lucas himself saying that."

If Lucas himself said that, then nothing, and I mean NOTHING you, Filoni, or anyone else says means a damn thing in this context. Peace out mo-fo!! : {]

Lucas said that the CW carttons represented Jedi as he had always imagined them himself. One-men armies. I don't know if he was specifically talking about their power or anything so you can take that as you will.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Well ****.......

Tossing around star destroyer halves with next to zero effort with the Force then tossing around A TIE fighter with his hands.

I'm irritated [b]and impressed. [/B]

Originally posted by RE: Blaxican
To be fair, those star destroyer pieces probably weighed like... all of ten pounds in space. 😐

I don't know if you're being serious or not, but just in case; Mass plays a huge role in space. If one tries to move the International Space Station on their own, they wouldn't be able to budge it at all. Fail! In other words, Every thing has inertia, or the tendency to keep doing what it is doing. If it is sitting motionless, it stays motionless until you apply a force to change that. This inertia is related to the mass of the object. (In one way it is this resistance to change of motion that defines the mass of the object). The more massive the object, the harder it is to effect a change. If you aren't being serious, then ***king ignore me.

Well, its more the scale of the thing. Plus idk, the ship Marek was in was falling, so they must have been in orbit enough for that, so they probably still had weight. Plus it only took like 1 min to reach atmosphere.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Well, its more the scale of the thing. Plus idk, the ship Marek was in was falling, so they must have been in orbit enough for that, so they probably still had weight. Plus it only took like 1 min to reach atmosphere.

It's not the weight that matters anyway, it's the mass. Even in the vacuum of space, the more massive an object is, the harder it is to manipulate.

k.

Originally posted by Jinsoku Takai
I don't know if you're being serious or not, but just in case; Mass plays a huge role in space. If one tries to move the International Space Station on their own, they wouldn't be able to budge it at all. Fail! In other words, Every thing has inertia, or the tendency to keep doing what it is doing. If it is sitting motionless, it stays motionless until you apply a force to change that. This inertia is related to the mass of the object. (In one way it is this resistance to change of motion that defines the mass of the object). The more massive the object, the harder it is to effect a change. If you aren't being serious, then ***king ignore me.

Originally posted by RE: Blaxican
lol, you jerkoff.

gunsmilie