Galen Marek vs Yoda

Originally posted by Jinsoku Takai
Darth Power, you can rant and rave all you want about common sense and all that other bullshit; It doesn't mean a damn thing.

Regarding what S66 said; "Actually, it was stated in the commentary of the old cartoons that the feats shown are what the jedi were capable of if they did releash there full power. I believe it was said during Mace's scene on dantooine, either that or it was the part where Yoda callapsed part of the mountain on those droids."

And TJ; "That is George Lucas himself saying that."

If Lucas himself said that, then nothing, and I mean NOTHING you, Filoni, or anyone else says means a damn thing in this context. Peace out mo-fo!! : {]

Sorry about that guys. I should have been more specific.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Iv already addressed this, your just not paying attention to what im saying.

"-Why in ROTS was Sidious able to levitate himself along with several other senate pods, but was unable to save himself from being thrown down a shaft in ROTJ?"

Iv addressed that just in my last post..

"Why in the comic Jedi: Yoda, Yoda used the force to knock a small army of King Alaric's forces unconscience with just a wave of his hand, but never did this in the movies?
-Why in the new clone war series was Mace able to reduce several battle droids to scrap, but did not do this in the movies when it could have been useful?"

You see he's completely missing the point with these examples.. I never said if they dnt do a feat in the movies then they cant do it. Of course your going to see more feats in the whole EU than just in the movies.

But when a feat is shown which COMPLETELY CONTRADICTS whats shown in the movies, then G- Canon is the source to believe. The Force feats done in the cw mini were clearly in a whole different power set.

And none of the above feats were said anywhere by the creators of those stories to be over-the-top exaggerated feats. None of those feats CLEARLY CONTRADICT whats shown in the movies. We didnt really see Yoda take on armies in the movies..
Mace crushing 2 battle droids in with the Force on Ryloth hardly contradicts his abilities on Geonosis in AOTC where he and the other Jedis were facing Hundreds of Droids.

He cant take down hundreds unless he does it commando style. And he certainly cant take down hundreds head on, without his lightsaber, so with just his fists and the force alone! LOL

Its upto you if you wana believ AOTC or if you wana believe an over the top version of the same characters Force Powers as shown for kids entertainment. But you cant believe them both, cause theres a blatant contradiction there. And its not a small contradiction. Its a HUGE ONE!

According to TJ, Lucas said that the CW Mini depicts the Jedi feats as what happens when they're unleashed, or something to that effect. If this is the case, then DP's argument falls flat on its face.

i think slash said that. I just saw a documentary once where Lucas said the cartoons were what he envisioned jedi to really be if he had the technology to put it on film.

Originally posted by truejedi
If you DID lift the 20k lbs, then indeed it is NOT exaggerating to say so.

If the only account for lifting that weight are my words, how do you know if it was exaggerated or not?

Since Mace DID destroy an army with his fists, it is NOT exaggerating to say so.

First: Even in the CW Cartoon, he doesn't destroy the entire army with his fists.

Second: How do you know if the amount of droids he destroyed wasn't exeggerated, if the only source showing this battle is one that's creator proclaimed to feature exeggerations? Maybe he just destroyed one droid using his fists. Maybe he didn't do that at all.

Since Yoda DID smash ships together, it is NOT exaggerating to say so.

Again: How can you know, if the only source for this is one that features exaggeration in terms of action? Did Yoda really smash those ships together? Did he smash smaller ships together?

These things DID happen, therefore the feats themselves are not exaggerated. The overall concept of force use is exaggerated, but the feats themselves happened, and therefore ARE a measuring stick of their abilities.

No. The Battle of Dantooine happened and Mace, somehow defeated the droid army. Did he do it with his fists? Or is that an exeggerated display of his force aided strength and ability? We don't know. Did Yoda push those ships, or was that an exeggerated display of force use, to emphasize his extraordinary powers? We don't know.

Of course, it's likely that Mace and Yoda are capable of performing that feats, but since the only source showing them features exeggeration of the same abilities used to perform that feats/i], we need further context to determine what [i]really happened - or rather than that, if it happened like it's shown on screen.

Why is that so hard to understand? You are supposed to be intelligent, but here you fail, and hard.

Funny.
I tell you a story. Then I tell you that the story featured some exeggerations. After I did that, you proclaim I presented the absolute and undenyable truth to you. You don't see any lack in terms of reasoning here? Then it's not me who fails here...hard.

@Sidious 66:

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Actually, it was stated in the commentary of the old cartoons that the feats shown are what the jedi were capable of if they did releash there full power. I believe it was said during Mace's scene on dantooine, either that or it was the part where Yoda callapsed part of the mountain on those droids.

Nope. It's stated that the cartoons were close to what Lucas imagined the Jedi to be, but he couldn't realize them like that in the films. Do you really want to discuss the machinations of canon now? Theoretically, Lucas words are absolute. So when he says the show depicts the Jedi better than his own movies, we would have to accept that as gospel. But this would put every further SW source into question, because they do follow the - then less accurate - films.

Simply proclaiming "but it ISN'T canon" does not help either, especially when what is shown contradicts your claim.

And who did proclaim that? It certainly wasn't me. So?

If we go by your logic, then TFU is not canon either since every jedi in it out did anything Yoda has displayed in the movies feat-wise. No one said it was a good idea, but neither was the way Vader easily killed Palpatine after seeing what Palpatine was capable of during his battle with Yoda.

Apparently, you don't even understand my logic, so you might step away from trying to apply it to other situations. What Yoda displayed in the movies is clearly not the apex of his abilities (save for lightsaber duelling probably). And how do you even compare the TFU feats to the movie feats. Have you found the "potential need to perform force move X" chart somewhere, that enables you to accurately judge feats featuring a metaphysical energy field?

My point was that if we have just one source and we are told that this source features exeggeration of the things happening, we can't simply accept anything contained in the source without questioning. That's also true for TFU and, well, the novel certainly makes people look quite less powerful than the game itself does. This was also the case when WotC released the Dark Forces saga, which "downgraded" Kyle Katarn quite a bit.

Do you remember which part of the dvd of vol. 1 where the commentary said the feats shown are exaggerated?

I'd have to rewatch it, but I think it was during the battle of Mace on Dantooine.

About all the over the top force feats and why we don`t see this done all the time, I like the explanation that was given in the book Vision of the Future.

Basically using massive ammounts of force makes you unable to receive the force guidance in like doing the right thing and seeing the future. It was compared to trying to hear a small bird sing in a steel mill or something. This would explain why Jedi are severely reluctant to unleash their full power, it might win a battle but makes them pretty much go blind in the process.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
What exactly do you want us to do? March over to Skywalker Ranch and slap Lucas around for allowing the cartoons to be apart of canon? Until you can give a source where Lucas says the powers were exaggerated or that they are un-canon then it is useless and stupid to keep on. You're asking us for an explanation on why the feats do not fit the feats in the movies. Well... you're right, we don't have one, we just learned to accept it. You should do the same and get you some sleep.

Numerous people have said they were exagerrated force feats.. Dave Filoni, George Lucas, the creators of the mini cw cartoon. It was a kids cartoon exagerrated for entertainment.. What dnt you get?? Doesnt make the story or the whole show non canon.

No I dnt want you to march anywhere cause Lucas hasnt done anything wrong.. Its been expalained they were exagerrated feats.

You said yourself cw mini was C -Canon. Well if its C - Canon then its Lower than G and T Canon, so is therefore canon in the places it does no contradict G and T canon.

I take it your the one who cant sleep because im ruining your image of Mace flying through the sky destroying hundreds, thousands of droids by flicking his hands LOL

Originally posted by truejedi
i think slash said that. I just saw a documentary once where Lucas said the cartoons were what he envisioned jedi to really be if he had the technology to put it on film.

By the prequels he had cgi technology to show anything..

That may have well been his original vision but its not what he did in the end. His original vision also included calling Luke Skywalker Starkiller.. That doesnt make Luke's name Starkiller in canon, because thats not what was done.

Originally posted by truejedi
i think slash said that. I just saw a documentary once where Lucas said the cartoons were what he envisioned jedi to really be if he had the technology to put it on film.

Nope, I didn't.

If Lucas envisioned Jedi to be this overpowered, then I've lost even more respect for him. I prefer Jedi and Sith not being DBZ characters and just be like they are in the movies. So none of that faster than the eye can see, move starships and other galactic scaled crap.

In The Old Republic they are trying to make troopers on the same level as Jedi and Sith, but they are also trying to make Force users look like gods. This just doesn't add up.

It would be easier if they could get out of the idea of Boba Fett being the pinnacle of the SW Badass Normal. Just make it so that troopers have access to some Sweet Tech, easily capable of elevating them onto the Jedi level.

I mean, for a guy who went out of his way to kill Jedi he has like zero advantages tech-wise over them.

Well they have the mandalorian troopers who are pretty close to Fett. They were shown to give Obi-Wan a seriously tough time. And I guess Arc Troopers arnt too far behind.

Of course Durge was a bad ass jedi killer. I hope we see him in the new animation. Im surprised hes not shown up yet.

Galen Marek is a noob, he saber skills are terrible, even Shaak Ti was too fast for him.

He never won a straight up saber duel, killed his only two notable force opponents with cheap use of force powers and don't even take him beating and capturing Vader at the end of TFUII be a serious part of an arguement for his skills.

Vader has thrown that fight for some mysterious reason or another.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
The Clone Wars cartoon is C-canon. Deal with it and move on.

Stop smoking crack noob;

T-canon,[2] or Television Canon[3], refers to the canon level comprising the feature film Star Wars: The Clone Wars and the two television shows Star Wars: The Clone Wars and the Star Wars live-action TV series.[4][5] It was devised recently in order to define a status above the C-Level canon, as confirmed by Chee[6].

Originally posted by GGS
Stop smoking crack noob;

ban

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
By the prequels he had cgi technology to show anything..

That may have well been his original vision but its not what he did in the end. His original vision also included calling Luke Skywalker Starkiller.. That doesnt make Luke's name Starkiller in canon, because thats not what was done.

Out of curiousity, where are you getting the word "exaggerated" from?

Originally posted by GGS
Stop smoking crack noob;

It's a miracle substance, OK?!

Originally posted by Borbarad
If the only account for lifting that weight are my words, how do you know if it was exaggerated or not?

But we saw it. It wasn't a narrator. (which we destroy all the time here as exaggerating, for exampe, Nick Rostu and Kreia are not trusted narrators.) So yes, in these cases, where we see it onscreen, we can definitly say it happened.

First: Even in the CW Cartoon, he doesn't destroy the entire army with his fists.

True, he destroys a few and blows up the rest. However, I believe DP is still claiming he cannot do that. (see, here MY WORDS were an exaggeration of what ACTUALLY happened. i do get the difference. In this case, we know exactly what Windu did, since we see it onscreen, and I exaggerated it by calling it an "entire army".

Second: How do you know if the amount of droids he destroyed wasn't exeggerated, if the only source showing this battle is one that's creator proclaimed to feature exeggerations?

Because we saw it happen. Therefore it happened. This wasn't a narrator, it was actual footage of Windu destroying those droids. You cannot exaggerate actually happened by saying it happened.

2nd, who used the word "exaggerated?" I saw the word "exaggerated" used by the creator of TFU, i've never seen a source saying TCW cartoons are exaggerated.

Maybe he just destroyed one droid using his fists. Maybe he didn't do that at all.

This is directly contradicted by what is on-screen.

Again: How can you know, if the only source for this is one that features exaggeration in terms of action? Did Yoda really smash those ships together? Did he smash smaller ships together?

Depends on your definition of the subjective words "huge" and "smaller" he did smash the size of ships that we saw smashed together, together.

No. The Battle of Dantooine happened and Mace, somehow defeated the droid army. Did he do it with his fists? Or is that an exeggerated display of his force aided strength and ability? We don't know.

Actually we do, since it happened onscreen. It is a known.

Did Yoda push those ships, or was that an exeggerated display of force use, to emphasize his extraordinary powers? We don't know.

Yes we do, since it happened onscreen.

Of course, it's likely that Mace and Yoda are capable of performing that feats, but since the only source showing them features exeggeration of the same abilities used to perform that feats/i], we need further context to determine what [i]really happened - or rather than that, if it happened like it's shown on screen.

I need to see the source with the word "exaggerated" and see what context it was used in.

I have been asking them both for a source. Darth Power can not be bothered with that, so I guess I am just suppose to take his word for it and use what he calls "common sense". Borbarad is making shit up claiming that the creator of the cartoon said the feats were exaggerated, when the creator actually said that is what they were capable of if they releashed their full power.

If Mace's battle on Dantooine was exaggerated, then the battle itself would be considered non-canon, unless Borbarad can prove that Windu either had help or he used some other method other than just the force. Until then: What we see onscreen >>>> His word. If he wants to claim that Yoda might have smashed smaller ships then what was shown onscreen, then he is contraticting what was shown as truejedi said.

For the record: I, at first, was not alright with the over-the-top force usage. I believe that the battle between Sidious and Yoda should stand out since they are suppose to be the greatest force users of their time. But I guess I got use to it. Now they are trying to turn Starkiller into a Marvel character. I guess it's all to catch the audience's eyes and which it does.

Originally posted by truejedi
ban

Ban for the truth?

Cartoons are higher than C canon get over it Star Wars canon noobs.