Originally posted by NemeBro
1. Canon. In storyline.2. The Omega Effect's properties do not change with a different user. Though he uses it in the form of the Omega Beams, which erase individuals. Hell...He erased many individuals across both universes when he merged them, and you think he cannot do the same to Kain?
3. No they don't, they live outside the normal flow of space and time, and they live in the Fourth World. And it isn't like Darseid does not have Time Powers of his own.
4. The concept of the character is lazy and uninspired, there is no proof that he lost any powers, to say he did is unfounded and ridiculous.
5. Show me him using this regulation on another entity.
6. He merged it. His ultimate plan was to collapse it.
7. Peak human means shit, especially since the term peak human in DC and Marvel is so warped. Call me when Kain can dodge point blank gunfire.
1. Can you show this? you did not answer all my questions.
2. why? how many users have used it other than Darksied? no because theres no universes as far as I know in this matchup for him to merge and I should like to think ime right in assuming they both start off in the same universe when they begin anyway.
3. exactley, live in the fourth world, unfortunatley hes not living there in this match, hes in w/e the matchup puts them in and hes not Darksied, hes Dark Khan, who does not necesserily have the same properties as both.
4. not really, theres no proof he can do all powers of both sides, theres reasons to believe he may due to the fact he did not use all powers for one and another is that the character is diffrent in general, the form of Shoa Khan may inhibit the use of some powers for some unkown reason.
5. Kain controls energy with his magic, through regulation this energy is his tool, thus energy is his tool, the fact its another beings is irrelvent, especially to Kain who is the regulator. Thats like asking you to show me Kratos displaying a strength feat on a vampire because I want to know if he can display the same strength in the presence of one, pointless and irrelevent.
6. Plans do not add up to a feat.
7. "shrug" they use it for batman all the time, and dodge in what way? James bonde has dodged gunfire, I use him all the time simply because hes definaltey nothing but a man but can dodge bullets at ridiculous angles with stupid luck, its not necesserily impressive, unless its emphasised that the bullets were coming at him and he actually reacted to the bullets themselves, not the gunshot, e.g. Neo in the matrix
Originally posted by Burning thought
You just cant understand what the diffrence between gameplay mechanics and gameplay feats are and you cant understand whats a no limits fallacy and whats just a no limit. I shall makesure ime crystal clear in everything I say next time.
Means shit. Besides, you claimed NONETHING CAN KILL...KAIN!!!!
Originally posted by ScreamPaste
You realise James Bond is a fictional character, too, right BT?
Exactley why he is a perfect example, hes made to be a normal human being other than the fact he is a special agent with incredible skills yet he can seemingly outrun bullets, machineguns, rockets etc without much problem. Its its like a "I iz luckies" syndrome, which is likely what Batman did. Dodging bullets can be done in so many ways with characters, many of which are simply not impressive, usually reacting to their enemies faulty aim or the gunshot itself, not a bullet.
Originally posted by The Valiant
Means shit. Besides, you claimed NONETHING CAN KILL...KAIN!!!!
Nothing can, time itself will not allow him to die, his envelope of invulerability is not because of what he is, its who he is, its nothing to do with his durability but because he is the Scion of balance and he will live or excist or survive odds because of this.
If Kain can survive while as particles of a diffrent material (mist) without bodily features, nothing but his concious power/soul to control it, or survive without the heart of darkness in his body, the only reason he is alive technically yet without it he can survive, then what use is trying to kill him? someone would have to be able to break the time protection that is immutable or perhaps take his highly resistant soul.
Originally posted by Burning thought
Exactley why he is a perfect example, hes made to be a normal human being other than the fact he is a special agent with incredible skills yet he can seemingly outrun bullets, machineguns, rockets etc without much problem. Its its like a "I iz luckies" syndrome, which is likely what Batman did. Dodging bullets can be done in so many ways with characters, many of which are simply not impressive, usually reacting to their enemies faulty aim or the gunshot itself, not a bullet.
Luck. Right. That's why Batman with his back turned heard someone a few buildings away pull the trigger, hearing the bang and dodged the sniper rifle bullet thanks to reacting to the sound of the rifle without knowing the shooter was there in the first place. The next instant, the shooter was brought down by a batarang as result of an immediate throw in the very same movement he dodged.
Pure luck. Puuuure luck 😐 Do some reading before you make claims. Batman is not some lucky punk. He rips steel chains out of concrete, kicks down pansar doors, throws people through steel gates, taking the gun from a man starting meters away before the man could pull it (And the man did the first move). As for dodging bullets, Batman when initially stood still has dodged bullets after they has been fired at him. This is no James Bond crap. Comparing the two is an insult to Batman, and proof that you don't know what you're talking about.
When James Bond can hold up a ton, speedblitz other humans, punch down brick walls, lift 400 pound over his head and catch an arrow he doesn't see coming until it's by his ear, then the two are worth comparing. Until then, James Bond isn't anywhere near DC peak human.
Originally posted by Burning thought
Thats a specific power, we dont know about energy or what he actually does to do that, nor do we know if he can replicate it in any other way, thus, its a non combat move, totally useless in this matchup."shrug" looking at a few wiki arcticles, Batman has foiled Darkseid and apprently escaped his omega beams.
We know that he uses his own power, we know that he merges them we know that beings in both universes are erased from existance. No it's not If a being is capable of breaking down dimensional barriers and then merging two entire different universes together without collapsing both is a show of both impressive control but also extensive amounts of energy. But then Again Darkseid's power alone is more then enough to flatten Kain.
Welcome to the Cartoon version of Darkseid. In the "real" world nothing have dodged the Omega Beam, the only way for two flashes to survive being targeted (by a significant weaker version of the Omega Effect) was that they had to run several times the speed of light.
Originally posted by Utrigita
We know that he uses his own power, we know that he merges them we know that beings in both universes are erased from existance. No it's not If a being is capable of breaking down dimensional barriers and then merging two entire different universes together without collapsing both is a show of both impressive control but also extensive amounts of energy. But then Again Darkseid's power alone is more then enough to flatten Kain.Welcome to the Cartoon version of Darkseid. In the "real" world nothing have dodged the Omega Beam, the only way for two flashes to survive being targeted (by a significant weaker version of the Omega Effect) was that they had to run several times the speed of light.
We know he uses power to merge universes, whether the repercussions of this merge (most likely) were the reason for beings being erased or whether he did it on purpose is not known.
Is it even outlined how fast the Omega beam is?
Originally posted by Obsidian Fury
Luck. Right. That's why Batman with his back turned heard someone a few buildings away pull the trigger, hearing the bang and dodged the sniper rifle bullet thanks to reacting to the sound of the rifle without knowing the shooter was there in the first place. The next instant, the shooter was brought down by a batarang as result of an immediate throw in the very same movement he dodged.Pure luck. Puuuure luck 😐 Do some reading before you make claims. Batman is not some lucky punk. He rips steel chains out of concrete, kicks down pansar doors, throws people through steel gates, taking the gun from a man starting meters away before the man could pull it (And the man did the first move). As for dodging bullets, Batman when initially stood still has dodged bullets after they has been fired at him. This is no James Bond crap. Comparing the two is an insult to Batman, and proof that you don't know what you're talking about.
When James Bond can hold up a ton, speedblitz other humans, punch down brick walls, lift 400 pound over his head and catch an arrow he doesn't see coming until it's by his ear, then the two are worth comparing. Until then, James Bond isn't anywhere near DC peak human.
I made no claims on Batmans feat, I outlined examples where a character had dodged bullets in a way that is not even impressive so have a good try and actually read my posts before you blunder into a conversation, especially one you were not invited to, its quite rude 🙂
Although I think ive seen that comic scan before, I would need to see it again, I have the feeling there was more to it than your statements.
not at all an insult to batman, he moves quickly because he is peak human and bullets have a lot to take into account in dodging them, not simply because their quick but their accuracy could be off, the gunman may be less skilled, or obvious in his shots, the fact a bullet is quick does not make it a good feat until its obvious Batman dodged the bullet coming straight at him through speed alone. Until then peak human, is peak human unless DC outlined humans to be more than typical humans.
Originally posted by Burning thought
We know he uses power to merge universes, whether the repercussions of this merge (most likely) were the reason for beings being erased or whether he did it on purpose is not known.Is it even outlined how fast the Omega beam is?
It didn't seem like a coincidence given the knowlegde that presented on each character, he knew that Captain Marvel and Raiden knew of his merging and would attempt to stop him and so on, he was constantly aware of the situation in both universes seperately, that leads me to believe that the fact that beings was erased was hardly coincidentel. And it still doesn't change that he displayed enough energy to merge two universes into each other breaking down dimensional barriers that is above anything Kain has displayed.
I think the fact that none can avoid it and that you have to travel several times the speed of light in order to avoid it speaks for itself 🙂
Originally posted by Utrigita
It didn't seem like a coincidence given the knowlegde that presented on each character, he knew that Captain Marvel and Raiden knew of his merging and would attempt to stop him and so on, he was constantly aware of the situation in both universes seperately, that leads me to believe that the fact that beings was erased was hardly coincidentel. And it still doesn't change that he displayed enough energy to merge two universes into each other breaking down dimensional barriers that is above anything Kain has displayed.I think the fact that none can avoid it and that you have to travel several times the speed of light in order to avoid it speaks for itself 🙂
But nothing states still that he planned them to be removed from excistence or if its just a side effect of merging unvierses, either way hes not done anything else with this power, if we go as far to say he can do so. But as you said, what kain has "displayed".
Is it stated they have to move that fast to escape it? or just avoid it....it may be sluggish but persistant. Do they say they "have" to move that quickly?
Originally posted by Burning thought
But nothing states still that he planned them to be removed from excistence or if its just a side effect of merging unvierses, either way hes not done anything else with this power, if we go as far to say he can do so. But as you said, what kain has "displayed".Is it stated they have to move that fast to escape it? or just avoid it....it may be sluggish but persistant. Do they say they "have" to move that quickly?
It still clearly showed that his power as a sideeffect could erase beings from existance, which given the nature of the Omega Force that Darkseid has at his disposal is quite natural. He doesn't really need to do anything else besides that to get a win above Kain that have neither broken down dimensional barriers and merged two universes nore has he as a side effect of using his power erased beings across two seperate universes. Dark Khan as also according to Nemebro (who still haven't showed evidence but I think he will) have held his own against Superman and Raiden.
Escape it, you can't avoid it (only in cartoon) you can either try and tank it (which in Kain's case would equal death ore being shattered across thousands of different locations in time at a molecule level) ore do as the flashes try and outrune it and they was moving at superluminal speed, and all they had managed to do iirc was to keep the distance between themselves and the Omega Beam unchanged. Ore you could have some extremly powerful artifact like Wonder Women had.
Originally posted by Utrigita
It still clearly showed that his power as a sideeffect could erase beings from existance, which given the nature of the Omega Force that Darkseid has at his disposal is quite natural. He doesn't really need to do anything else besides that to get a win above Kain that have neither broken down dimensional barriers and merged two universes nore has he as a side effect of using his power erased beings across two seperate universes. Dark Khan as also according to Nemebro (who still haven't showed evidence but I think he will) have held his own against Superman and Raiden.Escape it, you can't avoid it (only in cartoon) you can either try and tank it (which in Kain's case would equal death ore being shattered across thousands of different locations in time at a molecule level) ore do as the flashes try and outrune it and they was moving at superluminal speed, and all they had managed to do iirc was to keep the distance between themselves and the Omega Beam unchanged. Ore you could have some extremly powerful artifact like Wonder Women had.
No it showed the merge of universes as a side effect erased beings.
hm, or Kain could turn into a weather system (mist) and have it affect nothing, simply pass through him. And what is it? if its a spell he can reflect it off the Repel shield.
Originally posted by Burning thought
No it showed the merge of universes as a side effect erased beings.hm, or Kain could turn into a weather system (mist) and have it affect nothing, simply pass through him. And what is it? if its a spell he can reflect it off the Repel shield.
And who performed the merging? Who's power was used? Dark Khan.
Good luck with both, The Omega Beam has bypassed the shield of Moebius Chair on one occasion, and went straight through Braniac's shield on another occasion. Also if he goes into mist form he would efficiantly battlefield remove himself, the moment he goes back into corporal form he gets hit, If Darkseid haven't transmuted the mist into stone, and even if Kain is in mist form he can still be hit, Spectre a being with no corporal form could...
To merge yes, so? I felt like you were trying to imply that Dark Khan actively made beings become erased, or that he could erase beings himself, this is not implied, its shown that because of the merge, beings were erased. Thing is, he cannot merge anything in this match, hes not got a couple of universes to toy with.
Were theirs just shieds or were they made to reflect? like Kains.
What? that makes no sense, why would he be BFR in mist form? hes just canged his form, and why would he get hit? it would go through him and hit an object and dissapate unless your saying it will just sit there waiting for him? I find that hard to believe.....and this is not Darksied. Saying it could hit mist is imo foolish, not being corporeal is one thing but being a diffrent material, such as a weather is another, its like thinking that if Darksied fired an Omega effect inside a cloud or during the rain, that his beam would hit and doll out their full effect on the rain drops and disipate, or in water vapour, obvioulsy this is not the case since moisture in some form is always in the air.
Originally posted by Burning thought
To merge yes, so? I felt like you were trying to imply that Dark Khan actively made beings become erased, or that he could erase beings himself, this is not implied, its shown that because of the merge, beings were erased. Thing is, he cannot merge anything in this match, hes not got a couple of universes to toy with.Were theirs just shieds or were they made to reflect? like Kains.
What? that makes no sense, why would he be BFR in mist form? hes just canged his form, and why would he get hit? it would go through him and hit an object and dissapate unless your saying it will just sit there waiting for him? I find that hard to believe.....and this is not Darksied. Saying it could hit mist is imo foolish, not being corporeal is one thing but being a diffrent material, such as a weather is another, its like thinking that if Darksied fired an Omega effect inside a cloud or during the rain, that his beam would hit and doll out their full effect on the rain drops and disipate, or in water vapour, obvioulsy this is not the case since moisture in some form is always in the air.
Was it Dark Khan's power that performed the merging? Yes. Was it as a side effect of Dark Khan utilizing his power that beings got erased? Yes. Is that given the nature of the Omega Force unnatural? No.
Kain's haven't been capable of taking the amount of damage that neither of the shields have so I consider it irrelevant for the thread. And good luck repelling a attack that isn't magical which is what Kain's shield reflect.
If Kain can't reenter the battlefield (which he can but he would doom himself if he did) then he has BFR himself. It will, it have been showed to travel through the universe and hitting Superman it have also flown around a being just waiting for Darkseid's command, the Omega Effect can remain active for as long as Darkseid wishes it. Kain is still there isn't he? his form has changed but that is it. If the Beam can hit spectre a Ghost then it can most certainly hit Kain, but then again Darkseid can just transmute Kain's Mist form into stone.
Originally posted by Burning thought
Were theirs just shieds or were they made to reflect? like Kains.
When his shield has shown resistant to damage on a molecular level, your no-limit fallacy would have an excuse of being used.
Kain would be as exposed after as before he had used the shield if he was struck by that beam. Before you start talking about the tooltip of it, I suggest you remind yourself that it shield Kain from physical and magical attacks. Not molecular.
Originally posted by Utrigita
Was it Dark Khan's power that performed the merging? Yes. Was it as a side effect of Dark Khan utilizing his power that beings got erased? Yes. Is that given the nature of the Omega Force unnatural? No.Kain's haven't been capable of taking the amount of damage that neither of the shields have so I consider it irrelevant for the thread. And good luck repelling a attack that isn't magical which is what Kain's shield reflect.
If Kain can't reenter the battlefield (which he can but he would doom himself if he did) then he has BFR himself. It will, it have been showed to travel through the universe and hitting Superman it have also flown around a being just waiting for Darkseid's command, the Omega Effect can remain active for as long as Darkseid wishes it. Kain is still there isn't he? his form has changed but that is it. If the Beam can hit spectre a Ghost then it can most certainly hit Kain, but then again Darkseid can just transmute Kain's Mist form into stone.
It wasa side effect of the merging, not necesserily anything to do with his power, for all we know the same would have happened if anyone merged a universe. Its useless in this matchup..yes
You should have just said its not magical, damage is unimportant for a reflecting shield.
Actually, I wonder if Dark Khan can survive his own omega beam, I would like to see the horror on his skeletal force as his own Omega beam flies back to reach Kain as he materialises behind Khan....Darksied is not in this match 😉 also when has Darksied transmuted mist into stone simply out of interest? doesnt sound like a feat a character would even bother showing....
The way i see it, Kain is mist, the beam goes through since its not going to affect water vapour or deliever its "super powerfulz" effect on a droplet of water then Kain materialises right on top of Khan, who unfortunatley gets hit by the Omega blast, dieing instantly. So really all Kain needs to beat this goof is mst form... 🙂
Thats ofcourse assuming he does not just use magic regulation to make his time bolt universal, freeze Khan solid in his own time flow while tearing him out of it for the amusement it may bring (assuming he is in the fourth world time flow as Dark Khan) then simply drain him completly using the regulation of the energy concept, then without any energy, and frozen in time he would be useless, just to answer the thread Kain lets loose the energy and blows Khan into fragments with his own energy.