The Unstoppable Juggernaut vs. The Flash

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Can't the Flash create vortex's in time and space(It's extremely late, it hurts to think right now. I'm going to bed after this.)? Meaning he could just dump Cain off in the Big Bang, or Entropy or something. Does it count as battle field removal, when you're opponent is no more? I think such forces can take Cain out.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
When has Cain shown he can will himself more power from Cytorrak on his own, without outside manipulation or specific circumstances?

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
It's not that they couldn't steal Zoom's speed per say as I recall, it's just that Zoom operates by manipulating time in reference to himself. He doesn't use speed. Besides Johns wrote that. We all know how Johns writes the Flash. Great stories but in terms of power levels, the Flash is a punching bag. He needed 15 seconds to run to another city even when he was dead serious. I started dismissing garbage like that from Johns a while back.

From what I've interpreted from the Flash vs Zoom scans of how Zoom's powers work, he still "uses speed" per se. He moves at normal speed but just enhances it by manipulating time.

I really don't read enough Flash to comment but when has Flash really stolen speed from someone that doesn't have superspeed?

Originally posted by D_Dude1210
From what I've interpreted from the Flash vs Zoom scans of how Zoom's powers work, he still "uses speed" per se. He moves at normal speed but just enhances it by manipulating time.

I really don't read enough Flash to comment but when has Flash really stolen speed from someone that doesn't have superspeed?

Another one of the reasons, why in terms of power levels and power sets, I dismiss Johns.

Wally West once stole the speed of the entire planet Earth, including the human population and super humans.

You don't have to have super speed to have you're speed stolen from what I understand.

He also did it to Inertia. As I recall Inertia doesn't actually have powers. Just uses drugs to simulate powers. Am I remembering that correctly?

God, it's late.....

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
He also did it to Inertia. As I recall Inertia doesn't actually have powers. Just uses drugs to simulate powers. Am I remembering that correctly?

God, it's late.....

Yeah. It's late. lol

Originally posted by Enyalus

The only time I recall Flash doing anything remotely similar was when he traveled through time (and space) and went fast enough to convert his and other JLA members' bodies into pure information. But that was only because he was using The Glimmer's treadmill.

I just recalled two instances from the top of my head, lol. He did it most recently when he transported the Justice League back from Ultra-Man's Universe. He ran around his team mates, created a vortex, and transported them back as I recall. He also did it recently during the "JLA/Avengers" comic. That's how they got to the Marvel Universe originally.

Originally posted by Enyalus
The D'Spayre fight.

When did he do that?

As I recall, D'Spayre drained Juggernaut of most of his power (As I rememer Spite saying.), and then he was reduced to a skeleton, but then survived on the energy he had left.

I'm looking for my issue right now, to confirm this. I usually confirm everything before my posts when I can, but the search is going much slower right now. To lazy. I usually keep it under my "X-Men" folder, but I seemed to have moved it.....

Originally posted by Enyalus
IIRC, Inertia had the same powers as Bart...then, erm, lost them somehow. And then used the 42nd century or whatever drugs to simulate Bart's powers.

Yeah. It's late. lol

I'm to lazy to confirm what you said. As I recall, Inertia being a clone of Bart's was not as powerful but I do recall him having a connection to the Speed Force. Like you said he lost it, I think after "Infinite Crisis", he then used a drug, called "Velocity 9" or something akin to that to simulate super speed.

Anyways, that doesn't change my point, of Wally stealing his speed despite Inertia not having true powers. Doesn't really matter much overall....

Yup, it is so let's hurry up and finish this quickly so I can get to bed.....

Okay. I'll reply in a few minutes. Stay up until then.

Spoiler:
Not really, KMC. I'm not going to reply back and just hope that Rage wastes a bunch of his time staying up far too late and has a really shitty day tomorrow. Don't tell him.

hysterical

YOU BASTARD!

ROFLMAO!

I almost missed the bottom part too. I'm so tired, I practically didn't see it. Wow, if I had stayed up all night just waiting for you're post.....

I'd have less respect than Mindset does in bed.

1st: Flash 10/10
2nd: Flash 7/10, or stalemate. Flash can still steal his speed and make him. If not, then Juggernaut will never hit him.

Btw: ahahahah Rage. Rookie mistake.

Originally posted by xJLxKing
2nd: Flash 7/10

1.) Flash
2.) Stalemate

Originally posted by Enyalus
facepalm

The best Flash can hope for is a stalemate in both.

Originally posted by xJLxKing
How is Juggernaut going to hit him? Flash can still steal his speed and making him a statue.

And Flash can't steal Juggernaut's speed permanently. Maybe not at all. Juggernaut gets all his attributes, including his speed, from Cyttorak. He's a being of magic.

Originally posted by Enyalus
And that's going to allow Flash to win in a non-BFR situation, how?

And Flash can't steal Juggernaut's speed permanently. Maybe not at all. Juggernaut gets all his attributes, including his speed, from Cyttorak. He's a being of magic.

I want to know why a thunder clap wouldnt stop flash and the second thing I want to know is how flash would muster up enough strength or power to even bfr someone like juggernaut.

Scenario 1: Flash 10/10 - BFRs Juggernaut by punching him into orbit.

Scenario 2: Flash 9/10 - Time travels back in time and kills Cain Marko before he becomes the Juggernaut.

Originally posted by Starscream M
Scenario 2: Flash 9/10 - Time travels back in time and kills Cain Marko before he becomes the Juggernaut.

Originally posted by Nihilist
The best Flash can hope for is a stalemate in both.

No.

In the first scenario, Flash could battle field Juggernaut before he forms a coherent thought.

In the second scenario I think the best they could hope for is a stalemate.

Originally posted by Enyalus
And that's going to allow Flash to win in a non-BFR situation, how?

And Flash can't steal Juggernaut's speed permanently. Maybe not at all. Juggernaut gets all his attributes, including his speed, from Cyttorak. He's a being of magic.

Like I said, we've seen that just because a being, gets his powers, such as speed, strength etc. from a powerful being of magic, it doesn't mean the speed stealing would not affect you.

So I wouldn't use the defense that Flash cannot steal his speed, because he is empowered by a magical entity.