Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
So I wouldn't use the defense that Flash cannot steal his speed, because he is empowered by a magical entity.
I said he couldn't steal his speed permanently. Not that he couldn't do so period.
And in the first scenario, Flash had better blitz him before Juggy can form a coherent thought, otherwise he doesn't win. Which is why I only gave Flash 7/10 in the first, instead of 10/10. Juggy puts his forcefield up, its over. Flash's IMP isn't doing anything to that.
Originally posted by Enyalus
I said he couldn't steal his speed permanently. Not that he couldn't do so period.And in the first scenario, Flash had better blitz him before Juggy can form a coherent thought, otherwise he doesn't win. Which is why I only gave Flash 7/10 in the first, instead of 10/10. Juggy puts his forcefield up, its over. Flash's IMP isn't doing anything to that.
Okay, my bad. Cytorrak would probably intervene sooner or later.
With his perception Flash has all the time in the world. He can draw out countless years, between the tick of a second. To him the world would be a stand still. His body automatically, matches his perception from what I understand. That's why he views the world like a DVD.
He can press pause for as long as he wants, and the more time goes, the faster his body automatically moves, to match his perception as time passes from what I understand.
Juggernaut putting up his shield shouldn't stomp him from battle field removing him. As I said, he can simply create a vortex around Juggernaut (As his shield's diameter is limited.), and toss him in some random time/space. Maybe the Big Bang.
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympusdont see it happening Juggs rarely gets bfr'd.
No.In the first scenario, Flash could battle field Juggernaut before he forms a coherent thought.
In the second scenario I think the best they could hope for is a stalemate.
And Flash doesnt bfr people instantly offten either.
Originally posted by Nihilist
dont see it happening Juggs rarely gets bfr'd.And Flash doesnt bfr people instantly offten either.
That doesn't at all change the fact that if Flash wanted too, he could easily battle field remove Juggernaut. Just because it doesn't happen regularly, doesn't mean it wouldn't be easy for Flash. Colossus has done it.....
He doesn't, but he can. He has before.
Originally posted by Rage.Of.OlympusStill doesnt prove he would or will do it straight from the off, as they fight in character.
That doesn't at all change the fact that if Flash wanted too, he could easily battle field remove Juggernaut. Just because it doesn't happen regularly, doesn't mean it wouldn't be easy for Flash. Colossus has done it.....He doesn't, but he can. He has before.
Originally posted by Nihilist
If he doesnt do it straight away he has no chance,as simply landing shit loads of puches on Juggs aint gonna do jack.
Why the hell wouldn't he be able to battle field remove him if he doesn't do it straight away?
How the hell would Juggernaut prevent him from doing so? He doesn't have to physically battle field remove him.
He can simply create a rip in space/time in the form of a vortex and dump his ass, in some random dimension or time.
Originally posted by Rage.Of.OlympusThese are all some thing Flash does not do on a regular i.e. in character,so if we go by them standard then, i suppose Juggs starts with his forcefield up then.
Why the hell wouldn't he be able to battle field remove him if he doesn't do it straight away?How the hell would Juggernaut prevent him from doing so? He doesn't have to physically battle field remove him.
He can simply create a rip in space/time in the form of a vortex and dump his ass, in some random dimension or time.
Originally posted by Nihilist
These are all some thing Flash does not do on a regular i.e. in character,so if we go by them standard then, i suppose Juggs starts with his forcefield up then.
I said he can, not that he would. There is a difference there.
You made it sound like he couldn't do it if he didn't battle field remove him from the initial start. I simply provided evidence that he can, if he wanted too.
If we use the Force Field, as others have, then we go out off character, and Flash has battle field removed him before Cain knows the fight started and before he can even will up his Force Field.
Even with the Force Field up, I don't see how that would stop Flash from creating his special vortex and win through battle field removal.
Either way you look at it, Flash wins the first scenario, easily if felt like it.
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Even with the Force Field up, I don't see how that would stop Flash from creating his special vortex and win through battle field removal.
With the FF up...Flash isn't budging him. IMP or not. The godblast could barely do so. Flash isn't.
Originally posted by Rage.Of.OlympusFlash doesnt have the power to bfr Juggs to a far enough distance he cant return from(by punching).
I said he can, not that he would. There is a difference there.You made it sound like he couldn't do it if he didn't battle field remove him from the initial start. I simply provided evidence that he can, if he wanted too.
If we use the Force Field, as others have, then we go out off character, and Flash has battle field removed him before Cain knows the fight started and before he can even will up his Force Field.
Even with the Force Field up, I don't see how that would stop Flash from creating his special vortex and win through battle field removal.
Either way you look at it, Flash wins the first scenario, easily if felt like it.
The vortex bfr is just pure speculation as we dont know either way, that it woild or could effect Juggernaut with his forcefeild.
Originally posted by Nihilist
Flash doesnt have the power to bfr Juggs to a far enough distance he cant return from(by punching).The vortex bfr is just pure speculation as we dont know either way, that it woild or could effect Juggernaut with his forcefeild.
What?
How doesn't Flash have the power to battle field removal Juggernaut to a far enough distance that he can't return by punching?
He could only punch through time/space as Trion.
Flash can battle field remove him into another dimension, or into another time. How would Juggernaut return from that by punching?
Also, a battle field removal win, simply means you remove you're opponent from the battle field.
It's not pure speculation. Juggernaut's Force Field protects him from beings physically touching him etc. Flash's vortex, bends the time and space inside of it, so he can drop Juggernaut whenever or wherever he wants too.
What exactly has the Force Field shown to say it could protect him from that?
Originally posted by Enyalus
That's where I'm not really following you on. I assume in order to create that vortex, he needs to run around him, make that tear in space or whatever, then knock him through.With the FF up...Flash isn't budging him. IMP or not. The godblast could barely do so. Flash isn't.
No, he doesn't have to physically touch the Juggernaut. As shown he simply needs to run around his target, create the vortex, and they automatically go on the trip.
I don't understand how it works, but he runs around the opponent, creates a vortex around them, and anyone with in that vortex gets transported. I don't recall there being a need for physical contact in any of the instances he did it.
Originally posted by Rage.Of.OlympusThe only people irrc who have bfrd(physically) Juggs far enough for him not to be able to return were War Hulk who through him(Hulk was powered by a whole dimension and Celestial tech)and Onslaught who was made of pure Psionic energy.
What?How doesn't Flash have the power to battle field removal Juggernaut to a far enough distance that he can't return by punching?
He could only punch through time/space as Trion.
Flash can battle field remove him into another dimension, or into another time. How would Juggernaut return from that by punching?
Also, a battle field removal win, simply means you remove you're opponent from the battle field.
It's not pure speculation. Juggernaut's Force Field protects him from beings physically touching him etc. Flash's vortex, bends the time and space inside of it, so he can drop Juggernaut whenever or wherever he wants too.
What exactly has the Force Field shown to say it could protect him from that?
When/ how many times has Flash punched someone through time?
Irrc Thor couldnt bfr Juggs whilst his force feild was up.
BFR is only a win if they cant make back to the battle field
Originally posted by Nihilist
The only people irrc who have bfrd(physically) Juggs far enough for him not to be able to return were War Hulk who through him(Hulk was powered by a whole dimension and Celestial tech)and Onslaught who was made of pure Psionic energy.When/ how many times has Flash punched someone through time?
Irrc Thor couldnt bfr Juggs whilst his force feild was up.
BFR is only a win if they cant make back to the battle field
Colossus, and other X-men have battle field removed him before.
Dude, why are you trying to compare there methods to what Flash does? A, B, C logic doesn't apply here.
Flash isn't punching him through time, he is creating a vortex around Juggernaut which will dump him in some random dimension in some random time.
What are you not understanding here?
How would Juggernaut be able to prevent Flash from doing so, with or without his Force Field?
When did Thor try to battle field remove Juggernaut when he had his Force Field up and fail?
In the first encounter, Thor was incredibly weakened, to the point Spider-Man could defeat him, and he still won through battle field removal with some assistance. In the second fight, they just went at it, hand to hand, until Thor decided to negate his enchantment, kicked the crap out of him for 60 seconds, and battle field removed Juggernaut to some asteroid.
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
No, he doesn't have to physically touch the Juggernaut. As shown he simply needs to run around his target, create the vortex, and they automatically go on the trip.I don't understand how it works, but he runs around the opponent, creates a vortex around them, and anyone with in that vortex gets transported. I don't recall there being a need for physical contact in any of the instances he did it.
I don't remember much of JLA/Avengers 'cause I thought it was BS. lol
Originally posted by Enyalus
Okay. Like I said, I don't recall Flash doing it. But I know you came up with two instances off the top of your head.I don't remember much of JLA/Avengers 'cause I thought it was BS. lol
Well, his done it more than twice. I think his done it even as Kid Flash but like I said the two most recent ones I can think of the top of my head was when he transported the Justice League back to their Universe (You can find it in the respect thread.), and the second time was in the "JL/Avengers" arc. That's how the Justice League got to the Marvel Universe. Flash created a vortex that broke down the barrier between the Universes.
Originally posted by Rage.Of.OlympusExactly.. Thor had to negate his enchantment to be able to bfr him, something Flash cant do,as it seems they go full out from the off with Juggs forcefeild up Flash cant do squat the Cain.
Colossus, and other X-men have battle field removed him before.Dude, why are you trying to compare there methods to what Flash does? A, B, C logic doesn't apply here.
Flash isn't punching him through time, he is creating a vortex around Juggernaut which will dump him in some random dimension in some random time.
What are you not understanding here?
How would Juggernaut be able to prevent Flash from doing so, with or without his Force Field?
When did Thor try to battle field remove Juggernaut when he had his Force Field up and fail?
In the first encounter, Thor was incredibly weakened, to the point Spider-Man could defeat him, and he still won through battle field removal with some assistance. In the second fight, they just went at it, hand to hand, until Thor decided to negate his enchantment, kicked the crap out of him for 60 seconds, and battle field removed Juggernaut to some asteroid.
