Toxin vs. Daken

Originally posted by AlmightyKfish
Carnage has taken Spiderman and Venom at the same time, Spidy only really wins by outsmarting Carnage.

And Carnage has way more than class 25 strength, stated to be stronger than Spiderman and Venom combined, and showed as such by beating them down.

Toxin easily overpowered Carnage, and also easily beat Wrecker/Piledriver, Wrecker alone was beating down the New Avengers with ease in the Sentry arc...

Didnt wolverine just recently one shotted the wrecker with a claw to the face? 😕

So basically with toxin strength you're just guessing. By the way, Carnage has been dropped by spiderman strength on more than one occasion along with venom.

Originally posted by carver9
Fighting skill and speed which would be enough to pull a win.

How the hell does he have the speed advantage?

His not even faster than Deadpool.....

His only advantage is fighting skill, and since a great deal of the time like Wolverine, he jumps in head first, roaring like some animal, that won't help him to much if we use him in character.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
They were all dizzy from Skrull Queen's pheromones, weren't they?

Nope, she let her pheremones out on the Wrecker after he knocked Cage, Wolverine and Spiderman far away iirc...

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
They were all dizzy from Skrull Queen's pheromones, weren't they?

Wasn't that during the end because she was nervous? It doesn't make the weaker, just makes them attracted to her.

Originally posted by AlmightyKfish
You mean when Daken appeared, Spidy dodged him, then got kicked from behind?

That's not a speed blitz.

Listen to what you just said, spiderman dodged him then daken moved so fast that he was behind him. Its not a blitz but it sure as hell show a great sign of speed. What if daken decided to just claw him in the back instead of kicking him, spiderman would have been dead. So that alone tells you that daken was toying with him.

Originally posted by AlmightyKfish
Carnage has taken Spiderman and Venom at the same time, Spidy only really wins by outsmarting Carnage.

And Carnage has way more than class 25 strength, stated to be stronger than Spiderman and Venom combined, and showed as such by beating them down.

Toxin easily overpowered Carnage, and also easily beat Wrecker/Piledriver, Wrecker alone was beating down the New Avengers with ease in the Sentry arc...

Isn't Toxin stronger than all three of their asses put together?

I recall Toxin manhandling his two relatives in a cemetery when he got angry.

Originally posted by carver9
Didnt wolverine just recently one shotted the wrecker with a claw to the face? 😕

So basically with toxin strength you're just guessing. By the way, Carnage has been dropped by spiderman strength on more than one occasion along with venom.

We saw a random panel in Aaron's Wolverine trying to kill himself by doing so much stuff story where Wolverine is stabbing Wrecker up, but I don't really count that as a fight, as loads of random panels like that made up that story, even if they didn't make sense.

And in the elaborate fight they have in NA, Wrecker treats Lgoan like a child.

And with Toxin's strength, it's been stated in either a handbook or that post civil war thing where Tony assesses who would join the Initiative, and that's on top of his showings wrecking Carnage etc...

Originally posted by carver9
Listen to what you just said, spiderman dodged him then daken moved so fast that he was behind him. Its not a blitz but it sure as hell show a great sign of speed. What if daken decided to just claw him in the back instead of kicking him, spiderman would have been dead. So that alone tells you that daken was toying with him.

The only reason Daken was able to toy with Spider-Man like that is because he used his pheromones to mess with Spider-Man's head and perceptions. Once he closed his eyes, and used his spider sense to focus, he had no trouble at all tagging Daken.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
How the hell does he have the speed advantage?

His not even faster than Deadpool.....

His only advantage is fighting skill, and since a great deal of the time like Wolverine, he jumps in head first, roaring like some animal, that won't help him to much if we use him in character.

Its not a speed thing that he use against deadpool but its a tactic that sure as hell give him an advantage in a lot of fights. He's basically being in spots before his opponent realize where he's at which would f*** toxin up.

I have never seen Daken leap in and attack like wolverine does, his healing factor isnt that great. Daken fights smart.

Originally posted by carver9
Listen to what you just said, spiderman dodged him then daken moved so fast that he was behind him. Its not a blitz but it sure as hell show a great sign of speed. What if daken decided to just claw him in the back instead of kicking him, spiderman would have been dead. So that alone tells you that daken was toying with him.

Not really, b/c the way he lands if he had turned to claw him would have taken longer than a kick...

And that wouldn't work on Toxin, he's been stated to have the combined abilities of Venom/Carnage and more, and Carnage can see out of every bit of the symbiote, allowing him to see behind him etc.

Originally posted by carver9
Its not a speed thing that he use against deadpool but its a tactic that sure as hell give him an advantage in a lot of fights. He's basically being in spots before his opponent realize where he's at which would f*** toxin up.

I have never seen Daken leap in and attack like wolverine does, his healing factor isnt that great. Daken fights smart.

What tactic? He outright states that he isn't faster than Deadpool.

He uses his pheromone control to mess with his opponents perception, which I doubt would work on a symbiote, as they can regulate their hosts functions etc. Also with Toxin's abilities, sneaking up on him wouldn't exactly work.

Originally posted by AlmightyKfish
We saw a random panel in Aaron's Wolverine trying to kill himself by doing so much stuff story where Wolverine is stabbing Wrecker up, but I don't really count that as a fight, as loads of random panels like that made up that story, even if they didn't make sense.

And in the elaborate fight they have in NA, Wrecker treats Lgoan like a child.

And with Toxin's strength, it's been stated in either a handbook or that post civil war thing where Tony assesses who would join the Initiative, and that's on top of his showings wrecking Carnage etc...

Wrecker has one good showing against wolverine (even though wolverine was ripping him up) but recently, wolverine defeated him, no matter how you accept it, it happened.

By the way, the wrecker that the avengers fought was at least 10 feat tall, he had some kind of amp. Whereas the one that toxic fought was at his normal size.

Toxin strength is a mystery and its crazy for you to say any symbiote has 70 to 90 tons strength.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
What tactic? He outright states that he isn't faster than Deadpool.

He uses his pheromone control to mess with his opponents perception, which I doubt would work on a symbiote, as they can regulate their hosts functions etc. Also with Toxin's abilities, sneaking up on him wouldn't exactly work.

Rage, its pretty obvious when he use his pheromones and when he's outright just fighting someone.

Everyone that Daken has foughted, they commented on his speed.

Originally posted by carver9
Rage, its pretty obvious when he use his pheromones and when he's outright just fighting someone.

Everyone that Daken has foughted, they commented on his speed.

He clearly uses his pheromones to an extent, as he outright says he isn't faster than Deadpool.

Originally posted by AlmightyKfish
Not really, b/c the way he lands if he had turned to claw him would have taken longer than a kick...

And that wouldn't work on Toxin, he's been stated to have the combined abilities of Venom/Carnage and more, and Carnage can see out of every bit of the symbiote, allowing him to see behind him etc.

Hand attacks is much faster than kicks.

When was it stated that toxin has the combined abilities of venom, carnage, etc....

Do you have a scan?

Originally posted by carver9
Hand attacks is much faster than kicks.

When was it stated that toxin has the combined abilities of venom, carnage, etc....

Do you have a scan?

Sorry, havn't got any of the series on this PC.

Actually, I might be wrong about that seeing from all directions thing, as that might be Carnage's unique ability, I'm not sure.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
He clearly uses his pheromones to an extent, as he outright says he isn't faster than Deadpool.

And he outright tells deadpool how he blitz people.

Originally posted by carver9
Wrecker has one good showing against wolverine (even though wolverine was ripping him up) but recently, wolverine defeated him, no matter how you accept it, it happened.

By the way, the wrecker that the avengers fought was at least 10 feat tall, he had some kind of amp. Whereas the one that toxic fought was at his normal size.

Toxin strength is a mystery and its crazy for you to say any symbiote has 70 to 90 tons strength.

Dude, it was off panel. Who knows what the circumstances were?

Are you using that one panel as evidence of Wolverine defeating the Wrecker? What if Wrecker got up and beat the shit out of Wolverine like the last time they meet? What if Wrecker was weakened, or was distracted that allowed Wolverine to slash him?

There could be a number of things in play. One panel of an off panel fight, doesn't, equate to Wolverine defeating him.

Where does it say that the Wrecker the Avengers fought had any kind of amp? Guessing again? There hasn't been shown to be any difference between the Wrecker, Toxin was stomping and the one the Avengers fought.

It might be ridiculous to you but that's how it is. Even Venom and Carnage, have ridiculous showings of strength up there, and Toxin is supposed to be stronger than both and Spider-Man by a fair bit.

Originally posted by carver9
And he outright tells deadpool how he blitz people.

That's nice. Blitzing what people? Some no names aren't impressive. He clearly uses his pheromones to an advantage as he did against Spider-Man as on his own he isn't faster than Deadpool.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
That's nice. Blitzing what people? Some no names aren't impressive. He clearly uses his pheromones to an advantage as he did against Spider-Man as on his own he isn't faster than Deadpool.

😕 You make things so difficult rage.

He hit spiderman BEFORE he used his pheromones. In the beginning of the fight, there were no pheromones used; the writer made it pretty clear when daken started using his pheromones by putting dots over spidermans head. So all in all he blitzed, A.K.A, used that technique that he was trained about.

When he fought deadpool, deadpool outright tells daken that he's fast but this is where everything was revealed, daken tells deadpool that deadpool is faster, its not speed that he's using against deadpool, he's using a technique that he was trained on, being in places before his opponent realize where he's at.

Cyber ocmmented on dakens speed, telling him how fast he was and resorted to trickery on catching him. Daken only used pheromones on cyber one time and we seen what it did to him (cyber died during the process).

Wolverine commented throughout the entire arc on how fast daken was but we all knew what daken was doing since he brought it up to deadpool. Majority of the battles daken had with his father, he didnt cheat with him, he resorted to basically outfighting him (even though wolverine held back).

If these "A" class fighters fell for that tactic and basically resorted to plot device to even grab a hold of daken, its pretty obvious that the same tactic would work on toxin.