Originally posted by Hyperion PrimeSymbiotes maybe, not so much when it comes to the hosts using them. Oh and Venom's failed to "smother" Wolverine several times now.. 😐
all symbiotes >>>>>> greater than Wolverine, Daken, Sabertooth, X23 etc. Cover up the face with symbiote smother them, then put most of a tendril into the nose and pull out the brain or scramble it.
Originally posted by AlmightyKfishCarnage only had one truly impressive showing against Venom in his original appearance. Since then Venom's beat on him over and over again.
And Carnage has way more than class 25 strength, stated to be stronger than Spiderman and Venom combined, and showed as such by beating them down.
Originally posted by carver9daken didn't speedblitz them, he used his pheromones
What speed feats does toxin has that put him above the likes of daken, someone that has blitzed wolverine, spiderman, cyber, deadpool, etc.....Fighting skills goes to Daken.
Daken healing factor sucks though but its enough for him to take what toxin would be dishing out.
I give this fight to daken; hes overrall just better in almost every category besides strength and durability.
I know the symbiote is versatile but what has toxin done to prove that he's more than just a brute?
Originally posted by carver9
😕 You make things so difficult rage.He hit spiderman BEFORE he used his pheromones. In the beginning of the fight, there were no pheromones used; the writer made it pretty clear when daken started using his pheromones by putting dots over spidermans head. So all in all he blitzed, A.K.A, used that technique that he was trained about.
When he fought deadpool, deadpool outright tells daken that he's fast but this is where everything was revealed, daken tells deadpool that deadpool is faster, its not speed that he's using against deadpool, he's using a technique that he was trained on, being in places before his opponent realize where he's at.
Cyber ocmmented on dakens speed, telling him how fast he was and resorted to trickery on catching him. Daken only used pheromones on cyber one time and we seen what it did to him (cyber died during the process).
Wolverine commented throughout the entire arc on how fast daken was but we all knew what daken was doing since he brought it up to deadpool. Majority of the battles daken had with his father, he didnt cheat with him, he resorted to basically outfighting him (even though wolverine held back).
If these "A" class fighters fell for that tactic and basically resorted to plot device to even grab a hold of daken, its pretty obvious that the same tactic would work on toxin.
Dude, in the beginning of the fight he jumped Spider-Man when he wasn't expecting him, right when he was going out of the elevator, and Spider-Man was still able, to dodge the attack. He then attempted to kick Spider-Man down. He then uses his pheromones to mess with Spider-Man. He was probably doing it from the beginning as well. He never blitzed Spider-Man or anything of the sort until he resorted to using his pheromone control, and what technique did he use there? He jumped Parker, Parker bent backwards, he landed behind Parker, attempted to kick him, and Parker webbed away. What's so special about that?
I remember that, he was taught to be where his enemy isn't looking. He doesn't actually have super speed. Against, someone like Toxin, that wouldn't do him any good in my opinion. With his supposed reflexes, and speed, he is simply too fast, to get caught with his pants down like Deadpool, plus all of the symbiotes other abilities should make that unlikely.
Also as we saw against Cyber, he uses pheromones to truly make this technique effective. Any trained fighter, would always keep his eyes on his opponents. The only way that would work, is if Daken's too fast for his opponent to track, and as shown Daken isn't faster than the likes of Deadpool. Well it's comics......
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
He jumped Parker, Parker bent backwards, he landed behind Parker, attempted to kick him, and Parker webbed away. What's so special about that?
Right there... you write it out as if he missed.. It's important as it obviously shows Daken was fast enough to tag pete without the pheromones whether or not he knocked him out is of little relevance.
Originally posted by jinzin
Right there... you write it out as if he missed.. It's important as it obviously shows Daken was fast enough to tag pete without the pheromones whether or not he knocked him out is of little relevance.
hmmm
I do admit I should have phrased it better.
Well, he did jump Peter, when he wasn't expecting it. Just saying.....
Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Suit made of unstable molecules, enemy holding back, plot device... yes, Parker's performance in that fight was awesome.
The suit doesn't amp him does it?
Those Muramasa claws, are dangerous to Daken as well, if he isn't careful, aren't they?
Parker holds back too a great deal of the time. Just saying....
Parker, had a type of plot device used against him near the end. I mean what happened to the spider sense, when Bullseye shot those arrows?
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
The suit doesn't amp him does it?
Durability. He took a bullet to the head and was OK. One would think that Daken couldn't cut deep enough in a single attempt... not that he wanted to seriously injure him, anyway.
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Those Muramasa claws, are dangerous to Daken as well, if he isn't careful, aren't they?
What is Toxin going to do? Grab and snap them? That wouldn't work, he'd lose a hand... besides, Daken can just sheathe them at high speed.
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Parker holds back too a great deal of the time. Just saying....
Yeah, but that's not out of character for him.
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Parker, had a type of plot device used against him near the end. I mean what happened to the spider sense, when Bullseye shot those arrows?
Bullseye is Bullseye. And he was weakened and shocked by Harry's betrayal... no wonder he got shot.
Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Durability. He took a bullet to the head and was OK. One would think that Daken couldn't cut deep enough in a single attempt... not that he wanted to seriously injure him, anyway.
Wasn't it only his mask, that was made out of unstable molecules? His suit was just that a suit, but his mask was created out of unstable molecules and was incredibly durable. His mask took a bullet, and Bullseye's penetrated his costume no problem. If Daken couldn't cut deep enough it's because Parker is either to fast, or something along those lines.
Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
What is Toxin going to do? Grab and snap them? That wouldn't work, he'd lose a hand... besides, Daken can just sheathe them at high speed.
I wasn't referring to Toxin. I just meant, they are dangerous to Daken as well, as he needs Adamantium sheaths. Also, the Muramasa claws are supposed to cut through anything, aren't they?
Well, with Toxin's speed and strength, he could simply grab Daken by his wrists, and use his own claws, to carve him up. Just throwing a scenario out there.
Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Yeah, but that's not out of character for him.
Still doesn't change the fact that he does it.
Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Bullseye is Bullseye. And he was weakened and shocked by Harry's betrayal... no wonder he got shot.
An arrow is an arrow. I don't recall, Parker's emotions affecting the spider sense.
We will continue this when I come back tomorrow.
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Dude, in the beginning of the fight he jumped Spider-Man when he wasn't expecting him, right when he was going out of the elevator, and Spider-Man was still able, to dodge the attack. He then attempted to kick Spider-Man down. He then uses his pheromones to mess with Spider-Man. He was probably doing it from the beginning as well. He never blitzed Spider-Man or anything of the sort until he resorted to using his pheromone control, and what technique did he use there? He jumped Parker, Parker bent backwards, he landed behind Parker, attempted to kick him, and Parker webbed away. What's so special about that?I remember that, he was taught to be where his enemy isn't looking. He doesn't actually have super speed. Against, someone like Toxin, that wouldn't do him any good in my opinion. With his supposed reflexes, and speed, he is simply too fast, to get caught with his pants down like Deadpool, plus all of the symbiotes other abilities should make that unlikely.
Also as we saw against Cyber, he uses pheromones to truly make this technique effective. Any trained fighter, would always keep his eyes on his opponents. The only way that would work, is if Daken's too fast for his opponent to track, and as shown Daken isn't faster than the likes of Deadpool. Well it's comics......
HUUUUUUHHHHHHHHH, , he clearly outmaneauver perter and gets behind him kicking him (he could of easily stabbed him but he didnt). Peter then say that he's as fast as wolverine. Then Daken talks to peter while resorting to his pheromones.
I already told you what technique he uses during battle, just go look at the deadpool vs daken battle, its right there in the story. This technique has worked on some of the best fighters in marvel u, its almost next to crazy to say that it wouldnt work on toxin.
He does have speed but he's not as fast as his father (think spiderman was kind of overexaggerating a bit) BUT the speed that he has combined with his technique makes him extremely dangerous. Again, cyber, deadpool, wolverine, spiderman, along with others have complimented him on his speed so it must be something very impressive that hes doing to present him as a speedster.
I dont know why you brought up cyber and the pheromone, its kind of obvious when daken use it, the writer and the artist throw it right there in front of your face.
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Wasn't it only his mask, that was made out of unstable molecules? His suit was just that a suit, but his mask was created out of unstable molecules and was incredibly durable. His mask took a bullet, and Bullseye's penetrated his costume no problem. If Daken couldn't cut deep enough it's because Parker is either to fast, or something along those lines.I wasn't referring to Toxin. I just meant, they are dangerous to Daken as well, as he needs Adamantium sheaths. Also, the Muramasa claws are supposed to cut through anything, aren't they?
Well, with Toxin's speed and strength, he could simply grab Daken by his wrists, and use his own claws, to carve him up. Just throwing a scenario out there.
Still doesn't change the fact that he does it.
An arrow is an arrow. I don't recall, Parker's emotions affecting the spider sense.
We will continue this when I come back tomorrow.
You see, this is the problem, where are you getting the idea that toxin is so much faster than Daken. Who has complimented toxin on his speed or what speed feats are you using to back this up?
The reason Peter isnt dead right now due to his fight with Daken is because daken was toying with him. If daken wanted him dead he would have killed him in the begining of the fight.
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Wasn't it only his mask, that was made out of unstable molecules? His suit was just that a suit, but his mask was created out of unstable molecules and was incredibly durable. His mask took a bullet, and Bullseye's penetrated his costume no problem. If Daken couldn't cut deep enough it's because Parker is either to fast, or something along those lines.
Damn. I think you're right, it was only the mask. I admit it, sometimes I'm just blinded by my hatred.
Parker wasn't trying to dodge then, Daken used his pheromones and took him off guard. He just didn't want to kill him.
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
I wasn't referring to Toxin. I just meant, they are dangerous to Daken as well, as he needs Adamantium sheaths. Also, the Muramasa claws are supposed to cut through anything, aren't they?
Yes, they are.
Anything except "a memory" (Armor's forcefield) and adamantium.
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Well, with Toxin's speed and strength, he could simply grab Daken by his wrists, and use his own claws, to carve him up. Just throwing a scenario out there.
OK. Omega Red did something like that to Logan and cut his leg. But there's no proof that Daken is THAT affected by CIS and just wouldn't sheathe the claws.
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
An arrow is an arrow. I don't recall, Parker's emotions affecting the spider sense.
Hawkeye's bow > regular bow
He was in no condition to react appropriately fast.
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
We will continue this when I come back tomorrow.
Okay.
Daken wasn't trying to take Peter out severely. He sheethed his claws away when he began reigning blows on Spidey. It's not cause he couldn't cut deep enough, Spidey even attests to that; "The only thing that keeps my head attached to my shoulders is my spider-sense".
That said, both used plot devices, and Daken's durability played out to be about where I thought it might given Cyber's insinuation about his lack of it. If Toxin nails Daken with a few heavy blows, fights over... but let's get real. Spiderman couldn't touch Daken without his Spidersense. Deadpool needed to play mindgames, and Wolverine wasn't doing much better than Spiderman. At no point in his career has Toxin displayed any speed faster than that of Spiderman and I hesitate to say even on par....
Yeah, he kicked Carnage around, but it wasn't because of some absurd speed advantage.
Daken's speed should be more than enough to compensate for Toxin's and if his pheremones do work.. well that's pretty much game over....