Originally posted by carver9
Can you show me where you're getting toxin strength from because if you cant I'm going to use your technique. Daken should be able to hold him off since he's class 25 in strength. 😕You see how crazy that is; there is nothing suggesting that toxin is even over the 30 ton range.
http://marvel.com/universe/Toxin
its in his official bio
"His symbiotically induced strength is greater than that of Venom and Carnage combined"
do the math
50 tons(carnage) + 11 tons(venom) = 61 tons
and thats assuming venom is only 11 tons , venom's strength is highly variable as he is able to incerease size and strength , toxin too can do this ( http://img146.imageshack.us/img146/6254/venomvscarnage04200416dl3.jpg ) so imagine how much stronger toxin can become
cyber class 25 tops , said he coudl break daken , toxin will do it easier
Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Aren't FF uniforms made of unstable molecules... and Bullseye's arrow pierced it anyway.X-Men uniforms used to be made of them, too. To be honest, I find it strange that mask was that durable just because of unstable molecules.
I think it was just for the sake of the plot. The mask was incredibly durable yet the suit wasn't showing anything special in terms of durability.
Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
No story involving Daken I can think of took place after WO #36... we've yet to see him w/ Muramasa claws in action, so saying that it's not in his character to use them is just wrong. Even in Dark Wolverine he has bone claws only.
Damn, the time line is really that off? I should pay more attention to that.
Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Peak human at best.
Then that was stupid. Him stabbing Toxin, unless Toxin let him, which since he was toying with him, could be the case.
Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Artist... I bet he'd make Venom and Carnage seem completely bulletproof, too.
sly
We can't just say artist and ignore it. He never showed Venom or Carnage bullet proof as I recall. Only Toxin who was clearly shown to be bullet proof. We can clearly see them bouncing off of him.
Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Haven't heard about that energy projection thing, any chance for scans?
I didn't notice it the first two times I read that mini.
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Damn, the time line is really that off? I should pay more attention to that.
Yes, you should 😛
😉
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Then that was stupid. Him stabbing Toxin, unless Toxin let him, which since he was toying with him, could be the case.
He let him, but IIRC, he felt the pain...
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
slyWe can't just say artist and ignore it. He never showed Venom or Carnage bullet proof as I recall. Only Toxin who was clearly shown to be bullet proof. We can clearly see them bouncing off of him.
OK.
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
I didn't notice it the first two times I read that mini.
Again, I'm just wondering... wasn't that a kind of gas or something? Was it mentioned in the handbook?
Originally posted by jinzin
Right there... you write it out as if he missed.. It's important as it obviously shows Daken was fast enough to tag pete without the pheromones whether or not he knocked him out is of little relevance.
no need to parade being able to tag peter
daredevil tags him, punisher tags him, elektra tags him,capatin america tags him, hammerhead,kingpin the list goes on ....
SM is always tagged by physically inferior opponents it doesn't mean they are remotely as fast as he is, it means that the writers need the fights to last several pages.
he has peak human speed<<<SM's superspeed
Originally posted by ankur29
no need to parade being able to tag peter
daredevil tags him, punisher tags him, elektra tags him,capatin america tags him, hammerhead,kingpin the list goes on ....SM is always tagged by physically inferior opponents it doesn't mean they are remotely as fast as he is, it means that the writers need the fights to last several pages.
he has peak human speed<<<SM's superspeed
Comic evidences>>>>>>Hand books.
Trying to disprove what happen one pannel by showing a hand book does not work at all. It like taking the word of a secondary source over that of a primary source.
ecpt many of thoses people on the list have proven to be within the same speed as spiderman.
Hell spiderman even states Daken as fast as his dad, and his dad has spiderman questioning if he was faster then him.
Originally posted by Battlehammer
many of thoses people on the list have proven to be within the same speed as spiderman.Hell spiderman even states Daken as fast as his dad, and his dad has spiderman questioning if he was faster then him.
Honestly, I don't see how this is still being questioned. Perhaps you're reading too much into what the characters say to themselves. Spider-Man is faster than Daken, plain and simple, and Toxin ought to be as well.
Originally posted by Phoenix2001
Honestly, I don't see how this is still being questioned. Perhaps you're reading too much into what the characters say to themselves. Spider-Man is faster than Daken, plain and simple, and Toxin ought to be as well.
I am basing this off statements, feats and fights between spiderman and daken as well as other characters
Originally posted by Battlehammer
Comic evidences>>>>>>Hand books.Trying to disprove what happen one pannel by showing a hand book does not work at all. It like taking the word of a secondary source over that of a primary source.
ecpt many of thoses people on the list have proven to be within the same speed as spiderman.
Hell spiderman even states Daken as fast as his dad, and his dad has spiderman questioning if he was faster then him.
primary source evidence for ya:
through Daken original appearences thorugh the orgins run daken explicitly states he does not have 'superspeed' whereas as it is a well known fact SM does 😕 , handbooks are based on comics, given that there are mistakes , i dont see anything wrong in dakens power levels, do you?
which ppl on the list are you refering to? none of them are even superhuman 😮 , its just sad on SM's behalf that people think so lowly of him and his comaparable powers to athlete humans, bad writers included , i dont undertadn why they even gave SM powers as evidently andy tom/dick/harry can dodge a bullet etc
SM states sentry stalemated galacutus, sentry is more powerful than blackbolt ,that his reflexes are 40x that of a humans, that he isn't bored of aunt may etc hes not really credible 😖
Originally posted by ankur29
primary source evidence for ya:through Daken original appearences thorugh the orgins run daken explicitly states he does not have 'superspeed' whereas as it is a well known fact SM does 😕 , handbooks are based on comics, given that there are mistakes , i dont see anything wrong in dakens power levels, do you?
which ppl on the list are you refering to? none of them are even superhuman 😮 , its just sad on SM's behalf that people think so lowly of him and his comaparable powers to athlete humans, bad writers included , i dont undertadn why they even gave SM powers as evidently andy tom/dick/harry can dodge a bullet etc
Daken ment speedster levels, he also stated he had the same speed as deadpool who been stated with superhuman speed on pannel. He also been stated as fast as his father, who also has similar statements of superhuman speed and feats of speed blizting others.
Capt for one has superhuman speed. He the next step in human evolution it staight up impossiable for a human to get as fast as him. Makinjg him superhuman. No matter how you want to spinn it hand books are not better then or equal to that of on pannel evidences period and trying to make it so wont happen.
Originally posted by Hyperion PrimeOmega Red doesn't seem to lose much either. But yea... this argument is so played out and I made a thread on it, the point was proven cleanly. Many characters have the exact same feats, but that is artist interpretation as well. All of them have dodged bullets, and hit each other, and done crazy feats, that does NOT make them all the same speed or in the same class. Characters like DD and Cap will always move faster than the average Joe, or lift more, but day to day people can do superhuman feats in a needed situation as well. It just puts too much strain on their bodies. However character's like Spiderman can do these speed feats casually like it is nothing. All day, all the time. This was brought up and proven and was never countered in the thread before it was closed.
ohnoesplz mariofacepalm WTF Wolverine fanboys suck so much Logan nut !!! They will ride on Wolverine, Sabertooths nuts no matter what. In there minds those guys can never lose at all. ****Omega Red, X-23*** are the exception. Jinzin is the only logical guy.
Toxin has beaten Venom and Carnage, each symbiote is stronger than the previous and more physically powerful.. Toxin IS faster than Daken, comic book fights always show the characters moving at similar speeds one on one to give them a good fight, doesn't apply here, no more than it does in a Zoom/Superman thread. Geeze.
Originally posted by Tha C-Master
Toxin has beaten Venom and Carnage, each symbiote is stronger than the previous and more physically powerful.. Toxin IS faster than Daken, comic book fights always show the characters moving at similar speeds one on one to give them a good fight, doesn't apply here, no more than it does in a Zoom/Superman thread. Geeze.
Originally posted by BattlehammerMy post just covered that. I have absolutely no problem with a character "having problems' with other characters in a comic book, it's a story it happens, ala Spiderman vs Kingpin, it just doesn't apply the same in a versus match. Spiderman can fight Robin and he'd still "have problems." Doesn't mean Robin is faster or as fast as Spiderman though.
thats nice ecpt spiderman was having trouble hitting Daken and Daken was easily hitting spiderman........
Originally posted by Tha C-Master
My post just covered that. I have absolutely no problem with a character "having problems' with other characters in a comic book, it's a story it happens, ala Spiderman vs Kingpin, it just doesn't apply the same in a versus match. Spiderman can fight Robin and he'd still "have problems." Doesn't mean Robin is faster or as fast as Spiderman though.
you can attmept to ignore that, but it a fact Daken was having a far easier time hitting spiderman then vice versa. Spiderman had to uses a plot devices and uses his spider senses to the fullest to tag daken
Originally posted by BattlehammerI get it fine, you skipped most of my point and tried to counter one part. It wasn't even a full fledged speed battle because he was under the affect of the phermones which he wasn't aware of the first time. It really doesn't counteract my point. It would be like a character disabling another character with something and then hitting them. Says nothing on raw speed alone.
you dont get it, Daken had no problems hitting spiderman, spiderman was having problems hitting dake.you can attmept to ignore that, but it a fact Daken was having a far easier time hitting spiderman then vice versa. Spiderman had to uses a plot devices and uses his spider senses to the fullest to tag daken
Originally posted by Tha C-Master
I get it fine, you skipped all of my point and tried to counter one part. It wasn't even a full fledged speed battle because he was under the affect of the phermones which he wasn't aware of the first time. It really doesn't counteract my point. It would be like a character disabling another character with something and then hitting them. Says nothing on raw speed alone.
spiderman is not levels above daken in speed, he not even on a different level. There in the same speed class, spiderman slightly faster, but not by any real advantage that be notices.
