Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
LMAO! crylaughI just clicked on the link in you're sig for the first timel, Eternal Idol and just read the title. I lol'd really hard. Lmao, that was hilarious. What was Alf thinking?
It was the first timed I joined and i was having a laugh. *shrug*
Originally posted by golem370
Spider-Man could switch suits are go as Parker with a mask on. Does Punisher know Spider-Man's face? Spider-Man knows his.
I think its unlikey he will do that.
Originally posted by Phantom ZoneSprint 100 meters. Sprint 100 meters while carrying a 10lb weight, or a backpack full of clothes. Let me know what you learn.
Hes lifted a 200lb man with one hand easily over the edge of a building while having a conversation with Captain america.
Originally posted by Phantom ZoneIf he's not carrying a bag around, then he won't have access to his full arsenal, and will be limited to what he can hold or wear. The more weapons he carries in holsters and pouches, the more he will be slowed down.
Weve only seen Punisher carry a duffel bag once, that doesnt count.
Originally posted by Phantom Zone That doesnt change anything all a prepped Spdierman would so is hit with full force punches. In the scenerios shown Spiderman would have still lost. Spiderman doesnt have prep in this thread because the vast majority of the times he doesnt use it and has never used it against Punisher.
50/50 split.
Originally posted by Phantom Zone Im not talking about every time Punisher has pointed a gun at Spiderman im talking about scenerios.
Originally posted by Eternal Idol
Sprint 100 meters. Sprint while carrying a 10lb weight, or a backpack full of clothes. Let me know what you learn.
This is a comicbook, have you ever seen any example in the history of comics of Frank Castle being weighed down by what he carries for prep?
Originally posted by Eternal Idol
If he's not carrying a bag around, then he won't have access to his full arsenal, and will be limited to what he can hold or wear. The more weapons he carries in holsters and pouches, the more he will be slowed down.
He never carries his full arsenal he carries what he needs. Even if he doesnt carry all of it his equipment its ten times more dangerous then his standard equipment. When have you ever seen him weighed down by stuff he carries?
He also has Pym particle to shrink stuff but thats beside the point anyway for reasons stated earlier.
Originally posted by Eternal Idol
You're denying Spider-Man prep. Regardless of whether he's used prep against Castle (who usually provokes Spider-Man, as opposed to the other way around) or not, he is still allowed prep for this fight. By forum rules, both are blood-lusted and fighting to their full capacity.
50/50 split.
Yeah and prep doesnt have to be equipment prep is strategy eg Captain Americe prepped for Spiderman and didnt bring any equipment. Since the prep that Spiderman usually uses is startegy then thats what he most likely will use.
Originally posted by Eternal Idol
So you want to discredit Spider-Man's prep because he's never used it against Castle on-panel, but you want do discredit Spider-Man's on-panel dodging of the majority of Castle's shots? You're nitpicking to make your argument sound credible.
No not all. The reason why ive focused on scenerios rather than each and every shot is because just because Spiderman dodges some shots doesnt mean that hes not going to get shot in the end. Take a look at the first example Punisher misses trying to shoot Spiderman but later gets him with another gun. Whats important is whos going to win and focsuing on every single time Spiderman has dodged Punishers every single shot doesnt prove that.
For the sake of argument its like saying that DD can dodge most of Punishers punches but its pointless focusing on that if he keeps getting Koed at the end of the fight with a right hook.
Originally posted by Eternal Idol
Even with that flawed logic and we go by fights rather than shots fired, Spider-Man still avoided getting shot one encounter out of two in that issue.
As I pointed out to you I still have more examples. Hell guns are just one option. One example where he fails to shot Spiderman he resorts to gasing him.
Originally posted by Phantom Zone
This is a comicbook, have you ever seen any example in the history of comics of Frank Castle being weighed down by what he carries for prep? He never carries his full arsenal he carries what he needs. Even if he doesnt carry all of it his equipment its ten times more dangerous then his standard equipment. When have you ever seen him weighed down by stuff he carries? He also has Pym particle to shrink stuff but thats beside the point anyway.
You're assuming Spider-Man can't dodge blasts from these weapons long enough to close in and kill Castle, which is simply not true. He's fast and agile enough to avoid getting shot. His web-shields have also been shown to absorb high-powered energy blasts. Another thing you're assuming is that Castle will avoid Spider-Man's webbing most of the time, which again is not necessarily true.
Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Yeah and prep doesnt have to be equipment prep is strategy eg Captain Americe prepped for Spiderman and didnt bring any equipment. Since the prep that Spiderman usually uses is startegy then thats what he most likely will use.
Originally posted by Phantom Zone
No not all. The reason why ive focused on scenerios rather than each and every shot is because just because Spiderman dodges some shots doesnt mean that hes not going to get shot in the end. Take a look at the first example Punisher misses trying to shoot Spiderman but later gets him with another gun. Whats important is whos going to win and focsuing on every single time Spiderman has dodged Punishers every single shot doesnt prove that.
Originally posted by Phantom Zone
For the sake of argument its like saying that DD can dodge most of Punishers punches but its pointless focusing on that if he keeps getting Koed at the end of the fight with a right hook.
Originally posted by Phantom Zone
As I pointed out to you I still have more examples. Hell guns are just one option. One example where he fails to shot Spiderman he resorts to gasing him.
Wasnt a full class 10 punch. Spider-man wanted to give a "you've been asking for it speech for a long time" first before killing him, that is the only logical explanation why Frank is still alive. Also he was bloodlusted but was still fighting the mind control so wasnt fighting at 100%. Also Frank shooting Spider-man with a gun IS a bad writing. Spider-man's been dodging bullets after they were fired for years even in midair, yet just because it was Punisher that bullet was different somehow. And im not even gonna comment on Ennis books. They shouldnt be even concidered canon seeing how Frank is the only character that is written there right and acts within his character.
Overall, both got prep, Frank has a better arsenal, Spider-man is also great at prep, plus if he's bloodlusted he can finish this with a punch and he's not going to get hit by guns or granades so Frank would have to come up with something better. Id say it's a close fight, could go either way.
Originally posted by SamZED
Wasnt a full class 10 punch. Spider-man wanted to give a "you've been asking for it speech for a long time" first before killing him, that is the only logical explanation why Frank is still alive.
It was a full force class 10 punch Spiderman was programmed to kill him and was bloodlusted. Thats why he picked up a car to splatter him.
Originally posted by SamZEDAlso he was bloodlusted but was still fighting the mind control so wasnt fighting at 100%.
Please stop stretching theres only one time it could be argued that he was fighting mind control and thats after he got hit in the head with the goblin bomb.
Originally posted by SamZEDAlso Frank shooting Spider-man with a gun IS a bad writing. Spider-man's been dodging bullets after they were fired for years even in midair, yet just because it was Punisher that bullet was different somehow. And im not even gonna comment on Ennis books. They shouldnt be even concidered canon seeing how Frank is the only character that is written there right and acts within his character.
Overall, both got prep, Frank has a better arsenal, Spider-man is also great at prep, plus if he's bloodlusted he can finish this with a punch and he's not going to get hit by guns or granades so Frank would have to come up with something better. Id say it's a close fight, could go either way.
Then its obvoulsy bad writing for Spiderman to get hit by punches from highly skilled humans. facepalm
Spiderman hardly preps and I dont think hes better. He was bloodlusted and didnt finish Frank with punch. Hell those chicks he was fighting have at least class 10 strength and that didn't kill him either.
Originally posted by Phantom Zone
It was a full force class 10 punch Spiderman was programmed to kill him and was bloodlusted. Thats why he picked up a car to splatter him.Please stop stretching theres only one time it could be argued that he was fighting mind control and thats after he got hit in the head with the goblin bomb.
Actually no, he was fighting it the whole time. So that wasn't a full force punch. The fact that he was "programmed" doesnt mean anything when it comes to Spider-man, in fact there's a 99.9% possibility he wouldn't have killed Frank even if he was just standing there doing nothing, that's right. Anyone who reads Spider-man know that. Over the years Spider-man's been mindcontroled many times and programmed to kill, he would fight, attack etc but every time when he's about to make the finnishing blow he'd break the mind controle, cause he's just not capale of killing in cold blood. Hell at some point it wasnt just his mind, but his BODY was controled by someone else and he broke free when he was ordered to land the killing blow. He just wont kill even if he's mindcontroled even if at some point it looks like he is going to. Also, you're saying that this was fullforce class 10 blow, if that was the case Frank would've been dead and yes im aware that he has almost super human damage soak, he still would've been dead. Spider-man pulls his punches when he fights even supervillains with superdurability. He could punch Franks head off his shoulders with afull force blow. So as I said, wasn't a fullforce punch.
Originally posted by Phantom ZoneWhy are you using his bad showings? It doesnt work like that on the forum, there are over dozen examples when he's fighting a highly skilled humans without getting tagged even ONCE or dodging things that are 1000x harder to dodge than highly skilled fighters, and his powerset as well as his random showings suggest that he's easilly capable of doing that.. Spider-man's been dodging bullets for years and doing it without ANY efforts, to the point where he'd himself say that guns are completely useless against him. But when he's shot by the Punisher he gets shot, if it wasn't Frank he would've easilly dodged an exact same shot as has been proved over the years by THOUSAND examples. So that's PIS, seeing how the only reason he's been shot is - it was Punisher who pulled the trigger.
I
Then its obvoulsy bad writing for Spiderman to get hit by punches from highly skilled humans. facepalm
Originally posted by Phantom ZoneHow could you possibly know they're class 10? Doesnt even take 1/10 of Spider-mans strength to do what they did. Crushing someone's head, damaging a pavement, classic Kingpin could do that. Hell Batman could do that. And I never said Spider-man is better at prep, cause he's not. I only said that he's great at prep and he is, add his superhuman abilities on top of that and its an even fight. And the only reason he didnt kill Frank with a punch is because it wasnt a fullforce punch. With a full force behind his punch Spider-man sent Scorpion flying several block away, he koed Man-Wolf with just one punch, koed Green Golbin with a punch, punched THROUGH Ironman's mask, even koed Absorbingman (although the last example could be argued as a bad writing). Saying that Frank could've survived a punch like that from Spider-man would be just wrong.
Spiderman hardly preps and I dont think hes better. He was bloodlusted and didnt finish Frank with punch. Hell those chicks he was fighting have at least class 10 strength and that didn't kill him either.
I didn't even think you read the annual
Originally posted by SamZED
Actually no, he was fighting it the whole time. So that wasn't a full force punch. The fact that he was "programmed" doesnt mean anything when it comes to Spider-man, in fact there's a 99.9% possibility he wouldn't have killed Frank even if he was just standing there doing nothing, that's right. Anyone who reads Spider-man know that. Over the years Spider-man's been mindcontroled many times and programmed to kill, he would fight, attack etc but every time when he's about to make the finnishing blow he'd break the mind controle, cause he's just not capale of killing in cold blood. Hell at some point it wasnt just his mind, but his BODY was controled by someone else and he broke free when he was ordered to land the killing blow. He just wont kill even if he's mindcontroled even if at some point it looks like he is going to. Also, you're saying that this was fullforce class 10 blow, if that was the case Frank would've been dead and yes im aware that he has almost super human damage soak, he still would've been dead. Spider-man pulls his punches when he fights even supervillains with superdurability. He could punch Franks head off his shoulders with afull force blow. So as I said, wasn't a fullforce punch.
Please stop speculating and give me on-panel proof he was fighting mind control. Just because he can fight over peoples mind control doesnt mean he should fight mind control in this instance.
He got hit by Letha who had at least class 10 strength and that didn't kill him either. This is also arguably the toughest version of Punisher written.
Originally posted by SamZED
Why are you using his bad showings? It doesnt work like that on the forum, there are over dozen examples when he's fighting a highly skilled humans without getting tagged even ONCE or dodging things that are 1000x harder to dodge than highly skilled fighters, and his powerset as well as his random showings suggest that he's easilly capable of doing that.. Spider-man's been dodging bullets for years and doing it without ANY efforts, to the point where he'd himself say that guns are completely useless against him. But when he's shot by the Punisher he gets shot, if it wasn't Frank he would've easilly dodged an exact same shot as has been proved over the years by THOUSAND examples. So that's PIS, seeing how the only reason he's been shot is - it was Punisher who pulled the trigger.
*sigh* Are you serioulsy trying to tell me that Spiderman getting tagged by a highly skilled human is a bad showing, because if you are I can end this debate now.
Originally posted by SamZED
How could you possibly know they're class 10? Doesnt even take 1/10 of Spider-mans strength to do what they did. Crushing someone's head, damaging a pavement, classic Kingpin could do that. Hell Batman could do that. And I never said Spider-man is better at prep, cause he's not. I only said that he's great at prep and he is, add his superhuman abilities on top of that and its an even fight. And the only reason he didnt kill Frank with a punch is because it wasnt a fullforce punch. With a full force behind his punch Spider-man sent Scorpion flying several block away, he koed Man-Wolf with just one punch, koed Green Golbin with a punch, punched THROUGH Ironman's mask, even koed Absorbingman (although the last example could be argued as a bad writing). Saying that Frank could've survived a punch like that from Spider-man would be just wrong.
She lifted a coach load of people fairly easily.
Originally posted by Parmaniac
Spidey was mindcontrolled and fought like
So what if he was mindcontrolled?
Originally posted by Parmaniac
and fought like an idiot
He did. Punching Pun and trying to splatter him with a car = idiot, when hes used tactics like all the time..huh?
Originally posted by Parmaniac
what about the two times where Spidey one shotted Punisher? 🙂
What about all the times Pun has punked Spiderman. Pun usually holds back anyway.
Originally posted by Phantom Zone
So what if he was mindcontrolled?
Maybe he was controlled by someone and not in full control of his own mind?
Originally posted by Phantom Zone
He did. Punching Pun and trying to splatter him with a car = idiot, when hes used tactics like all the time..huh?
not neccessary to use tactics but how about webbing? On lots of encounters he just webs his gun or Pun himself, so I could say he was "beserk" instead of "not holding back"
and if that fight wasn't PIS and Spidey wasn't holding back (I know he said it himself but that just proves PIS) why wasn't Pun knocked out after 1 NOT backholding punch? He did it 2 times before that WHILE holding back...
Originally posted by Phantom Zone
What about all the times Pun has punked Spiderman. Pun usually holds back anyway.
So he was holding back while firing live bullets at him huh (not this fight but in others)?
why don't you tell me a few Issue numbers where he punked him?
btw in THIS scenario both have prep time not only Punisher but I know you won't give Spidey credit in prep cause you think he's not using it