Originally posted by Phantom ZoneI actually like Punisher a lot, even have a Punisher t-shirt, so yeah I did.
I didn't even think you read the annual
Originally posted by Phantom ZoneHope you dont mind if I dont provide scans but I can just give you some examples. Funny, the last time he's been programmed to kill someone happened like a week before the Punisher annual. Dark reign mr. Negative. He has the power to turn any good guy in a killing machine and the better this guy is the more of a murder he becomes, he did that to Spider-man and ordered him to take down a bunch of supervillains including one speedstrer and a teleporter and then to kill a DB reporter. After beating the crap outta villains he chased her through the city and cought her, but when he grabbed her by the neck and was about to snap it, he stopped and instantly broke free from Negative's control. Another example - Jackal (I think that was him not sure) Spider-man was also controled and was ordered to kill MJ. A group of superheros tried to stop him but they couldnt even lay a finger on him, so in the end MJ didnt even bother to run away, she knew he wouldnt kill her even though he's not in control, again when he was about to punch a hole in her head, he stopped and broke free from it. Mindcontroled or not he'd never kill anyone in cold blood, in fact the closest he come to killing Punisher was when he tossed him in the air and even that was an accident, he wanted to get Frank away from him as fast as possible.
Please stop speculating and give me on-panel proof he was fighting mind control. Just because he can fight over peoples mind control doesnt mean he should fight mind control in this instance.
Originally posted by Phantom ZoneAs tough as he is I will never believe that he could walk away from a punch like that.
He got hit by Letha who had at least class 10 strength and that didn't kill him either. This is also arguably the toughest version of Punisher written.
Originally posted by Phantom ZoneFeel free. Because I can give you a dozen example of Spider-man fighting some of best marvel MA fighters without getting tagged once. Heck I can show scans of him fighting DOZENS of skilled humans without getting tagged once. Or dodging lasers while barely paying attention. And it makes sense concidering his powers. So yeah, when he suddenlt gets tagged by something he normally dodges without ANY efforts might not be a bad writing but definitely a low showing.
*sigh* Are you serioulsy trying to tell me that Spiderman getting tagged by a highly skilled human is a bad showing, because if you are I can end this debate now.
Originally posted by Phantom ZoneNot the same as lifting a train car thogh. Or supporting a building from collapsing.
She lifted a coach load of people fairly easily.
Originally posted by chomperx9
spidey gets punished
maybe you should take your hands off the buds 😉 😆
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=508577
Originally posted by SamZED
I actually like Punisher a lot, even have a Punisher t-shirt, so yeah I did.Hope you dont mind if I dont provide scans but I can just give you some examples. Funny, the last time he's been programmed to kill someone happened like a week before the Punisher annual. Dark reign mr. Negative. He has the power to turn any good guy in a killing machine and the better this guy is the more of a murder he becomes, he did that to Spider-man and ordered him to take down a bunch of supervillains including one speedstrer and a teleporter and then to kill a DB reporter. After beating the crap outta villains he chased her through the city and cought her, but when he grabbed her by the neck and was about to snap it, he stopped and instantly broke free from Negative's control. Another example - Jackal (I think that was him not sure) Spider-man was also controled and was ordered to kill MJ. A group of superheros tried to stop him but they couldnt even lay a finger on him, so in the end MJ didnt even bother to run away, she knew he wouldnt kill her even though he's not in control, again when he was about to punch a hole in her head, he stopped and broke free from it. Mindcontroled or not he'd never kill anyone in cold blood, in fact the closest he come to killing Punisher was when he tossed him in the air and even that was an accident, he wanted to get Frank away from him as fast as possible.
As I explained to you earlier, Spiderman resisted the mind control after he got hit in the head with the bomb. Sometimes he resists mind control sometimes he doesnt. You dont just assume hes resisting mind control and not resisting mind control is a bad showing just because you don't like it.
Originally posted by SamZED
As tough as he is I will never believe that he could walk away from a punch like that.
http://img70.imageshack.us/img70/4262/asm544dcp0026.jpg
Another reason to believe that Parker wasnt really trying his best to kill Frank. It wasnt his strongest punch and I really doubt he would've killed him either way.
Im not even sure what that was. Anyway hes taken shots from Kraven The Hunter. One with a piece of wood and another were Kraven hit him with a sword from 10s of feet in the air. Kraven isn't as strong as Spiderman but the weapons he was using would make his blows even more powerful.
Originally posted by SamZED
Feel free. Because I can give you a dozen example of Spider-man fighting some of best marvel MA fighters without getting tagged once. Heck I can show scans of him fighting DOZENS of skilled humans without getting tagged once. Or dodging lasers while barely paying attention. And it makes sense concidering his powers. So yeah, when he suddenlt gets tagged by something he normally dodges without ANY efforts might not be a bad writing but definitely a low showing.
Why on earth would I do that? You do realise im talking about superheroes right? You do realise Punisher has been shown fast enough to dodge superhumans as well? As I stated to you earlier this arguably the toughest version of Punisher, many highly skilled super heroes have been able to handle Spidermans speed.
Originally posted by SamZED
Not the same as lifting a train car thogh. Or supporting a building from collapsing.
*sigh* You asked for proof of her being class 10. As far as I can remember Spiderman used webbing for the building. I dont think a train car weigns more than a coach.
Originally posted by Parmaniac
Maybe he was controlled by someone and not in full control of his own mind?
I can't see any proof of it affected his ability to fight.
Originally posted by Parmaniacnot neccessary to use tactics but how about webbing? On lots of encounters he just webs his gun or Pun himself,
on alot of ocassions he just tries to punch his opponents your basically saying that Spiderman fights like an idiot alot of the time. Spiderman did use webbing but Pun was distracted when he used it.
Originally posted by Parmaniacso I could say he was "beserk" instead of "not holding back"
Not really he was cracking joke while trying to kill him.
Originally posted by Parmaniac
and if that fight wasn't PIS and Spidey wasn't holding back (I know he said it himself but that just proves PIS) why wasn't Pun knocked out after 1 NOT backholding punch? He did it 2 times before that WHILE holding back...
This is arguably the toughest version of the Punisher and hes taken shots from Kraven who is also superhuman. Hes not as strong as Spiderman but on one ocassion he used a piece of wood another a sword and he had momentum from 10s of feet in the air.
Originally posted by ParmaniacSo he was holding back while firing live bullets at him huh (not this fight but in others)?
Aiming to wound, but my point is when you have live bullets and you dont want to kill your opponet thats going to affect your ability to fight.
Originally posted by Parmaniac
why don't you tell me a few Issue numbers where he punked him?btw in THIS scenario both have prep time not only Punisher but I know you won't give Spidey credit in prep cause you think he's not using it
Spidermans prep is usually himself.
Punisher vs Spiderman[/B]
Punisher humiliates Spiderman AND Nightcrawler 😐
Punisher shoots Spiderman
Here Punisher is missing Spiderman by inches and is aiming to wound.
Earlier on he shoots Sabretooth who was arguably faster than Spiderman..and Punisher wasn't aiming to wound.
Here Punisher traps Spiderman. ( this isn't proof that he can shoot Spiderman but trap him.)
Of course we got the annual.
Spiderman gets a GG bomb in the face.
http://www.imagebam.com/image/7cadc250845560/
Here Punisher makes an accurate shot while dodging Spiderman
http://www.imagebam.com/image/817dee50845569/
Off the top of my head I can think of another example were Punisher has shot Spiderman.
edit: Im looking for scans of Spiderman decking Punisher according to herochat there are 4 example as far as I know one of them has been posted.
Here we are. I think 1 or 2 have already been posted.
1.
http://img15.photobucket.com/albums/v44/guyverjay/Amazing_Spider-Man_12911.jpg
2.
http://img15.photobucket.com/albums/v44/guyverjay/Amazing_Spider-Man_12921.jpg
3.
http://img15.photobucket.com/albums/v44/guyverjay/Spider-Man_033-21.jpg
http://img15.photobucket.com/albums/v44/guyverjay/Spider-Man_033-22.jpg
4.
http://img15.photobucket.com/albums/v44/guyverjay/Spectacular_Spider-Man_-_25504.jpg
http://img15.photobucket.com/albums/v44/guyverjay/Spectacular_Spider-Man_-_25505.jpg
Originally posted by Parmaniac
I'm afraid that you can't tell me the issue numbers of that scans don't you? The prob is I have a list of encounters also the issues but can't put up scans so I don't know wich of the scans already included in that list
Not all of them but serioulsy this is too much work. Hell ive gone the extra mile just getting the scans togther. 🙁
In short I could for some but I cant be arsed, maybe tommorrow.
Originally posted by Phantom ZoneI do not assume anyting, i came to that conclusin based on many things in the very book as well as many examples from other books. Most obvious - Punisher surviving the first punch. If Spider-man going all out Frank would've been dead. Dont know what OTHER proofs do you need.
As I explained to you earlier, Spiderman resisted the mind control after he got hit in the head with the bomb. Sometimes he resists mind control sometimes he doesnt. You dont just assume hes resisting mind control and not resisting mind control is a bad showing just because you don't like it.
Originally posted by Phantom ZoneKraven can lift like what? 2 tons? His attack with a stick being more powerful than Spider-man's best punch is a speculation and he'd yet have to demonstrate that they're that strong as for the scan it shows Spider-man punching THROUGH Ironman's mask. Best showings or not, unless Frank's face is more durable as Ironman's helmet he wont be able to survive a fullforce punch from Spider-man. That logic makes sense if you ask me.
Im not even sure what that was. Anyway hes taken shots from Kraven The Hunter. One with a piece of wood and another were Kraven hit him with a sword from 10s of feet in the air. Kraven isn't as strong as Spiderman but the weapons he was using would make his blows even more powerful.
Originally posted by Phantom ZoneYou make it sound like any superhuman has Spider-man's speed. Look, a holding back Spider-man fought Ironfist and didnt get tagged during the fight. He fought Wolverine and was dodging his claws successfuly, he fought Sabertooth, Carnage and many others. Why dont you wanna see where im coming from? Dodging bullets for him is a walk in a park, he can do it with his eyes closed from like a dozen machine guns even in if he's in midair, but when Frank shoots him for some reason he forgets how to do it. And you got no problems with that at all?
Why on earth would I do that? You do realise im talking about superheroes right? You do realise Punisher has been shown fast enough to dodge superhumans as well? As I stated to you earlier this arguably the toughest version of Punisher, many highly skilled super heroes have been able to handle Spidermans speed.
Originally posted by Phantom ZoneIt does. And he didnt use the webbing, he supported it with his shoulders, he only used it later to make sure the building doesnt collapse when he lets go.
*sigh* You asked for proof of her being class 10. As far as I can remember Spiderman used webbing for the building. I dont think a train car weigns more than a coach.
Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Here Punisher traps Spiderman. ( this isn't proof that he can shoot Spiderman but trap him.)Of course we got the annual.
Spiderman gets a GG bomb in the face.
http://www.imagebam.com/image/7cadc250845560/
Here Punisher makes an accurate shot while dodging Spiderman
http://www.imagebam.com/image/817dee50845569/
Off the top of my head I can think of another example were Punisher has shot Spiderman.
edit: Im looking for scans of Spiderman decking Punisher according to herochat there are 4 example as far as I know one of them has been posted.
surprize you did not show the rest of the encounter when punisher pritty much over powers spiderman and puts him in a choke hold........
Originally posted by golem370
I personally think that Spider-Man holds back when in direct conflict with Punisher because he knows and we know Spider-Man would literally rip his head off. Spider-Man has trouble going all out but in this thread he is going all out no second thoughts about anything.
He does and he definately stated at least once but I'll come back to this thrad when I'm finished with my respect thread research 😉
Originally posted by Parmaniac
He does and he definately stated at least once but I'll come back to this thrad when I'm finished with my respect thread research 😉
So does Punisher but thats not neccesarily a good argument because he doesnt become slower.
Also in the Punisher annual he basically pawned a bloodlusted Spiderman.
Originally posted by golem370
I personally think that Spider-Man holds back when in direct conflict with Punisher because he knows and we know Spider-Man would literally rip his head off. Spider-Man has trouble going all out but in this thread he is going all out no second thoughts about anything.
ditto.
Originally posted by Battlehammer
surprize you did not show the rest of the encounter when punisher pritty much over powers spiderman and puts him in a choke hold........
How does he do this???
Sounds like PIS, No way in hell should punisher be able to over power spiderman.
Now beating him in a H2H thru having better h2h skills maybe but not overpowering him
Originally posted by DarkOdin
How does he do this???
Sounds like PIS, No way in hell should punisher be able to over power spiderman.Now beating him in a H2H thru having better h2h skills maybe but not overpowering him
Not really martial art skill. Im actually suprised he did that but thats a high showing.
I like how BH tries to imply that the whole thing was badly written.
