Originally posted by h1a8Yea I need to see the Utopia feet again but I don't think Namor supported the entire island. And I don't think Namor has smashed a tank before but he may have.
That's impressive although I need to see the scans of the Utopia feat. Simon threw a tank at Hulk and it smashed to pieces on Hulk's body. The force that took to do that is easily in the hundreds of thousands of tons.Isn't there a feat of Namor smashing a tank like it's made of tissue paper?
I need to see that again. Maybe you are right.
Originally posted by juggernaut74
But you would say Venom was beating the sh!t out of Colossus though? Hypocrite much?
Not at all. Because my reasoning (which you don't know about) is not hypocritical.
Although, you bandying the H word is...well, hypocritical.
My reasoning is that a background fight < the main fight. One is just a throwaway scene, the other is the main focus of the entire scene.
Was he? So he WAS beating the crap out of him?
Guess that's why it was shown. And before you accuse me of double standards, know that it isn't.
For example, we wouldn't have Black Panther in the background of a fight manhandling Simon like that, would we? Yes, its a background fight, but even that has limits. You show peers fighting each other. So Spidey won't be tussling with Sentry, or Moon Knight destroying Thor etc. The background fight has to be, for lack of a word, believable.
IOW, as far as the writers are concerned, Venom destroying Simon isn't that far fetched.
Then contrast and compare to the fight with Namor, who was blindsided and weakened.
Originally posted by DarkSaint85So why did you post the scans of Venom/Simon?
Was he? So he WAS beating the crap out of him?Guess that's why it was shown. And before you accuse me of double standards, know that it isn't.
For example, we wouldn't have Black Panther in the background of a fight manhandling Simon like that, would we? Yes, its a background fight, but even that has limits. You show peers fighting each other. So Spidey won't be tussling with Sentry, or Moon Knight destroying Thor etc. The background fight has to be, for lack of a word, believable.
IOW, as far as the writers are concerned, Venom destroying Simon isn't that far fetched.
Then contrast and compare to the fight with Namor, who was blindsided and weakened.
Originally posted by carver9
I see double standard all in Darksaint post.
Only if you deal in absolutes.
There are two fights in question here.
Venom/Colossus
Venom/Wonder Man
I compared these two to Venom/Namor.
Venom/Colossus and Venom/Namor were the main fights. Therefore, the writers spent more time and effort on them (or at least, the artists did).
Therefore, they hold more weight.
I was being kind to the Venom/WM fight, because, as I said, the fight was in the background. Therefore, it held less weight - hence my statement, I wouldn't say that Venom was beating the shit out of Simon, as per Abhi's words . If you want to argue that the fight is of the same standard as the Venom/Naor fight, be my guest.
BUT it does NOT mean it should be disregarded 100%, does it? I never said that. Like I said with my examples (Sentry/Spidey, Thor/Moon Knight), artists/writers usually have peers fighting each other in the background, or else, as in the case with Deadpool, hilariously outmatched. So whilst that fight holds LESS weight, it does NOT mean it never happened.
Carver is my bestest buddy in the wole wide world.
Originally posted by juggernaut74
So why did you post the scans of Venom/Simon?
Yes, its a background fight, but even that has limits. You show peers fighting each other. So Spidey won't be tussling with Sentry, or Moon Knight destroying Thor etc. The background fight has to be, for lack of a word, believable.IOW, as far as the writers are concerned, Venom destroying Simon isn't that far fetched.
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Only if you deal in absolutes.There are two fights in question here.
Venom/Colossus
Venom/Wonder ManI compared these two to Venom/Namor.
Venom/Colossus and Venom/Namor were the main fights. Therefore, the writers spent more time and effort on them (or at least, the artists did).
Therefore, they hold more weight.
I was being kind to the Venom/WM fight, because, as I said, the fight was in the background. Therefore, it held less weight - hence my statement, I wouldn't say that Venom was beating the shit out of Simon, as per Abhi's words . If you want to argue that the fight is of the same standard as the Venom/Naor fight, be my guest.
BUT it does NOT mean it should be disregarded 100%, does it? I never said that. Like I said with my examples (Sentry/Spidey, Thor/Moon Knight), artists/writers usually have peers fighting each other in the background, or else, as in the case with Deadpool, hilariously outmatched. So whilst that fight holds LESS weight, it does NOT mean it never happened.
Carver is my bestest buddy in the wole wide world.
All of this for me? I was just playing, crazy. I should've typed 'joke' earlier in my post. Overall, I agreed with everything you said before and now.
Originally posted by juggernaut74
But you compared a "background" Venom/Simon fight to a "main" Venom/Namor fight did you not?
I did, because as I have said a fair few times now, it does not mean it never happened. And shows that the writers/artists/editors don't think its out of the realms of possibility for a fire surrounded Venom to give Simon a good fight.
Venom surrounded by his weakness can fight evenly with Simon (or, as per your words, clearly destroy Simon).
Venom blindsiding and using a special weapon on Namor gets his tongue ripped out and KOed.
Both events happened, and I was being generous when I said what I said. If you want to give it equal footing, please, by all means.
But please, point out the hypocrisy, rather than trying to entrap me with leading questions.
Originally posted by DarkSaint85Then why even bring up "backround" and "main" fights in the first place? I agree it shows Venom getting the better of Simon there. Can't argue that.
I did, because as I have said a fair few times now, it does not mean it never happened. And shows that the writers/artists/editors don't think its out of the realms of possibility for a fire surrounded Venom to give Simon a good fight.Venom surrounded by his weakness can fight evenly with Simon (or, as per your words, clearly destroy Simon).
Venom blindsiding and using a special weapon on Namor gets his tongue ripped out and KOed.Both events happened, and I was being generous when I said what I said. If you want to give it equal footing, please, by all means.
But please, point out the hypocrisy, rather than trying to entrap me with leading questions.
Originally posted by juggernaut74
Then why even bring up "backround" and "main" fights in the first place? I agree it shows Venom getting the better of Simon there. Can't argue that.
I only brought it up because I was being generous. Maybe after that scene, WM turns around and chokes Venom out, or flies him out of the atmosphere, or duirng that scene, Simon asks Venom to make it look like a good fight so he can get Scarlet Witch's attention - I don't know what happened EXACTLY in that fight. Hence background/main fights having less/more weight.
Originally posted by DarkSaint85I'd also like to point out that in the Venom/Colossus rematch that Venom specifically states that the fire isn't doing anything other than pissing him off.
I only brought it up because I was being generous. Maybe after that scene, WM turns around and chokes Venom out, or flies him out of the atmosphere, or duirng that scene, Simon asks Venom to make it look like a good fight so he can get Scarlet Witch's attention - I don't know what happened EXACTLY in that fight. Hence background/main fights having less/more weight.
Originally posted by juggernaut74
I'd also like to point out that in the Venom/Colossus rematch that Venom specifically states that the fire isn't doing anything other than pissing him off.
Agreed. But it was still affecting him, even if it meant he was fighting at 99% rather than previously with fire, where he's almost dying.
And again, in the fight with Namor, he had no such fire (pissing him off or otherwise). Whereas Namor was gasping for breath previously.
I.e. a 99% Venom = 100% Colossus (and that's being generous, as it could've been Venom at 95% or whatever - it was clearly a distraction).
Vs.
A 100% Venom < a gasping on his knees, blindsided Namor. So....60%? 70%?
THAT is the main point I'm trying to make.
Namor and Utopia :
http://s401.photobucket.com/user/clokeagne_supernova/media/Namor%20Respect/Namor%20titles/Strength/xmenvsatlas02a.jpg.html
Namor lifting a WW II era destroyer :
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/121048/2471375-namor_strengthfeat.jpg
You can ask Abhi for the scan of Namor lifting/stopping (can't remember which) Doom's ship that was said to be the size of a small city. I had it but I can't find the scan.
Then you have the Namor/Blue Marvel fight vs WM/Sentry/Ares/CM/IM fight. BM was tooling the Avengers yet he admitted he beat Namor thanks to a lucky punch :
