Originally posted by Enyalus
He had Jesse's powers, Bart's powers, and Jay's powers in addition to his own there.
huh?
no he didn't. least not according to galan and the respect thread. he had the flashes speed in the first fight. in rd II he had just jesse's.
if he had ALL their speeds, i'd love to see the proof so teh respect thread can be corrected.
Originally posted by leonidas
huh?no he didn't. least not according to galan and the respect thread. he had the flashes speed in the first fight. in rd II he had just jesse's.
if he had ALL their speeds, i'd love to see the proof so teh respect thread can be corrected.
That would seem to imply that he still had the amp of Bart and Jay.
he nearly used up jesse's only a few moments into the battle. why would he retain THEIR speed through a reprieve+the remainder of the battle? and since the formula works a little differently (it's an outside tool that exponentially makes her faster) it could very well (and has in the past) make HIM far faster as well.
if you think you're right, prove their speed should last so much longer than jesse's would. otherwise, it seems to me from what was shown that it was just the formula that was used.
Originally posted by leonidas
he nearly used up jesse's only a few moments into the battle. why would he retain THEIR speed through a reprieve+the remainder of the battle? and since the formula works a little differently (it's an outside tool that exponentially makes her faster) it could very well (and has in the past) make HIM far faster as well.if you think you're right, prove their speed should last so much longer than jesse's would. otherwise, it seems to me from what was shown that it was just the formula that was used.
Okay. Firstly, as you said, she gave Wally her connection to the Speed Force. That equation is just how she and Johnny Quick, etc, trigger it. It's psychological. It doesn't work any different fundamentally. It's her connection to the Speed Force. He took her speed, via the equation. That's all.
In addition, Wally took all of Jay and Bart's speed. Stated on panel. So again, unless Jesse's speed >> Jay + Bart's, you have no case. Furthermore, you ask why wouldn't it be used up, when Jesse's was nearly used up (the keyword being underlined). Simple. When he took Jay and Bart's speed, he could barely fight back. He was getting slapped around by Zoom still and put in choke holds, etc. With Jesse's amp in addition to their own, he was able to fight back semi-effectively and nearly keep up with Zoom. Fighting back and using your own superspeed, etc, to throw and dodge punches would burn through a SpeedForce amp a lot faster than standing there and getting punched across states faster than you can react to anything.
he also took ALL of jesse's speed. also on panel.
how long before that bit with jesse and the formula did he take jay and bart's speed? what issues are we talking about in which this battle happens? and how long does he usually retain a speed gain? from everything i've seen, it is not very long.
it seems the respect thread isn't being very helpful, though galan is pretty good and it seems to me if it required all THREE speedsters speeds for flash to match zoom, galan might have mentioned that . . .
even if he DID have some of their speed left, it's impossible to know just how much. maybe he had a tiny bit left. what IS clear is that he used jesse's quite quickly. what is NOT clear (your SPECULATION aside) is why he would retain the others' for such a long time.
Originally posted by leonidas
he also took ALL of jesse's speed. also on panel.how long before that bit with jesse and the formula did he take jay and bart's speed? what issues are we talking about in which this battle happens? and how long does he usually retain a speed gain? from everything i've seen, it is not very long.
it seems the respect thread isn't being very helpful, though galan is pretty good and it seems to me if it required all THREE speedsters speeds for flash to match zoom, galan might have mentioned that . . .
even if he DID have some of their speed left, it's impossible to know just how much. maybe he had a tiny bit left. what IS clear is that he used jesse's quite quickly. what is NOT clear (your SPECULATION aside) is why he would retain the others' for such a long time.
Originally posted by leonidas
how long before that bit with jesse and the formula did he take jay and bart's speed? what issues are we talking about in which this battle happens? and how long does he usually retain a speed gain? from everything i've seen, it is not very long.
Originally posted by leonidas
it seems the respect thread isn't being very helpful, though galan is pretty good and it seems to me if it required all THREE speedsters speeds for flash to match zoom, galan might have mentioned that . . .
Originally posted by EnyalusHe takes Bart and Jay's speed middle-to-late #199. Jesse gives her speed near the beginning-to-middle #200.
so he used her speed up in a couple pages, but keeps theirs for those pages + almost a whole book? he's never retained anyone's speed that long that i've ever seen. like i said--maybe he did retain a portion of it, but how much is impossible to say.
i'll read the books later on and see if there is anything the respect thread missed that might help make sense of things.
Originally posted by D_Dude1210
Surfer is gonna go H2H? O_oBesides, how is Zoom gonna touch the surfer? He can't fly can he?
And of course, I have scans if anyone is questioning mah authoritay. biscuits
Blitzing Surfer isn't going to be much of an issue.
Originally posted by Enyalus
*sigh* I'm going to say this: Zoom has speedblitzed Superman before without any problems. And in his battle with Flash, Superman and the other heroes couldn't even see them. Yet Superman is fast enough to track the paths of photons easily after just getting repowered (Up, Up and Away). And an unamped Wally couldn't even see Zoom move. And Flash has been confirmed as being able to think at the speed of light.And of course, I have scans if anyone is questioning mah authoritay. biscuits
Blitzing Surfer isn't going to be much of an issue.
My question still stands. How's he blitzing Surfer if Surfer is, y'know, a couple hundred feet off the ground? OP didn't state that they would be both ground level. Surfer should be allowed to be in flight (as that is his standard state in any situation). Can Zoom fly?
Originally posted by D_Dude1210
My question still stands. How's he blitzing Surfer if Surfer is, y'know, a couple hundred feet off the ground? OP didn't state that they would be both ground level. Surfer should be allowed to be in flight (as that is his standard state in any situation). Can Zoom fly?
If Surfer starts at a reasonable level near the ground in the first scenario, I can't see SS winning a majority. Zoom would land too many, too powerful blows before Norrin is able to reply in kind.