Originally posted by truejediOh, you're talking about Mace. I thought you were saying Palpatine gave no indication.
strain, however, is not indicative of losing energy. Of course omniscient narrator perspective is still valid.And Lucien, it is SIDIOUS that says "too weak" Not Mace. Mace doesn't say anything but, "No, HE is the traitor!" during the lightning.
sure. but its like lifting weights. You might be in pain lifting 200, but you could lift 50 for 20 minutes, or 22.222 for an hour. whether or not he was being overwhelmed is moot, (though there is little canon proof that he was) because taking a step back reduces the force so drastically that it is going to kill sidious long before it overwhelms Mace's blade. (since his use of the force is draining sidious, as evidenced by his melting visage)
Originally posted by Elok QuintlyWe have all watched the movies dozens of times. We know. ANd you're right about there being only one Emperor. But go read the A New Hope novel. I have a copy myself. I'll quote you a passage from the Prologue as given by the omniscient narrator (Lucas himself):
No, the ANH novel stated there was only one emperor. The only discrepancy is in how Palpatine was portrayed--as a weak-willed dullard with delusions of grandeur, ultimately controlled by bureaucrats. And that was how Lucas originally envisioned him. As the series went on, Palpatine evolved into the puppet master and wankish Force god we all love--or despise.
"... Senator Palpatine caused himself to be elected President of the Republic... Once secure in office he declared himself Emperor, shutting himself away from the populace. Soon he was controlled by the very assistants and boot-lickers he had appointed to high office, and the cries of the people for justice did not reach his ears. Having exterminated through treachery and deception the Jedi Knights... the Imperial governors and bureaucrats prepared to institute a reign of terror among the disheartened worlds of the galaxy."
I hope you see the glaring contradictions made against the films here. And unless you're about to say that that every film except for ANH is actually non-canon, then said discrepancies are disregarded.
Originally posted by Lord Lucien
We have all watched the movies dozens of times. We know. ANd you're right about there being only one Emperor. But go read the A New Hope novel. I have a copy myself. I'll quote you a passage from the Prologue as given by the omniscient narrator (Lucas himself):"... Senator Palpatine caused himself to be elected President of the Republic... Once secure in office he declared himself Emperor, shutting himself away from the populace. Soon he was controlled by the very assistants and boot-lickers he had appointed to high office, and the cries of the people for justice did not reach his ears. Having exterminated through treachery and deception the Jedi Knights... the Imperial governors and bureaucrats prepared to institute a reign of terror among the disheartened worlds of the galaxy."
I hope you see the glaring contradictions made against the films here. And unless you're about to say that that every film except for ANH is actually non-canon, then said discrepancies are disregarded.
(since his use of the force is draining sidious, as evidenced by his melting visage)
because taking a step back reduces the force so drastically...
Originally posted by Elok QuintlyDo you have any canon statement on the properties of Force lightning to back up your claim that such a negligible change in distance would drastically affect the force? Palpatine's lightning has been shown to instantly kill at distances greater than that. Mace didn't exactly have a whole ton of space to retreat to. And if Mace retreats too much, that gives Palpatine an opportunity to momentarily break off the attack and spring back to his feet--barring whether or not Palpatine could have used the Force to levitate himself upward anyway from his position in the corner.
I already posted on the force created by an electric field. (which is the only thing about lightning that can physically MOVE anything, which is what occurs when Mace is having his blade forced back)
A page or two back. (which tells me perhaps you didn't read the thread?) 😕
To summarize, and TO REPEAT MYSELF YET FREAKING AGAIN!!! 😠 😠
The force of an electric field DECREASES EXPONENTIALLY when the distance from the source is INCREASED.
Its physics.
Then it would also work the same way with the lightning being deflected.
Also: It requires the force to use vapaad, which the longer it's used the more force reserve it requires, just like you said with Palpatine and his lightning. If Mace was already physically strained, but Palpatine was not, wouldn't it make more sense that Mace would wear out quicker?
The lightning itself was not draining/aging Sidious. According to George Lucas and Luke Skywalker, Sidious was aged due to decades upon decades immersing himself in the dark side. If you also took a look at the sithisis comic Sidious was aged at the beginning of it, but after the ritual with the sith worm he was back to looking like the younger chancellor.
Originally posted by truejedi
I already posted on the force created by an electric field. (which is the only thing about lightning that can physically MOVE anything, which is what occurs when Mace is having his blade forced back)
A page or two back. (which tells me perhaps you didn't read the thread?) 😕To summarize, and TO REPEAT MYSELF YET FREAKING AGAIN!!! 😠 😠
The force of an electric field DECREASES EXPONENTIALLY when the distance from the source is INCREASED.
Its physics.
Palpatine has been shown to hold people in place--in the air--with Force lightning (TFU), and then use it to throw them with incredible force from afar.
He's not applying Real World physics to the Force. He is applying it to a physical phenomenon that simply happens to be powered by the Force. The interactions and effects of the physical manifestation necessarily follow the rules of real world physics.
I'm sure you've heard doubtful that you've heard of the "Goldilocks Zone." In physics, it is the idea that life as we know it could not appear under even slightly different laws. If the strong force was weaker, or the weak force stronger (etc.) then the universe would be a very different place. I've seen physics problems that change a constant (like the weak force) within a situation as simple as a ball running down an inclined plane with sexy results killer math behind it.
Laws of physics are identical or we don't get humans. We have humans. Therefore the laws of physics are identical. Now, the weak Sci-Fi setting allows some phenomena (lightsabers) to be left unexplained (read: magic) but this is non-negotiable.
TJ's math (as far as I know, I didn't check arithmetic) is sound.
Originally posted by truejedi
To summarize, and TO REPEAT MYSELF YET FREAKING AGAIN!!! 😠 😠The force of an electric field DECREASES EXPONENTIALLY when the distance from the source is INCREASED.
Its physics.
Lightning would best be called an electric current.
Alright, then how do you explain Force lightning being capable of pushing someone into the air, holding them stationary while airborne, and then blasting them away again with equal force when the emitter of the lightning is standing far away?
I suppose you could postulate that Sidious used another power to levitate his victim, but that is again nothing but a theory.
Originally posted by ares834
Except not. Lightning generates an Electric Field, however, lightning itself is NOT an electric field. Electric Fields are and I quote my physics book, "A region of space around a charged particle".Lightning would best be called an electric current.
thats exactly what i've been saying. I keep referring to the electric force, NOT to the lightning. Lightning by itself has no force whatsoever. Its the electric field that was putting physical force on Mace's blade. I fail to see where we disagree?
Originally posted by Elok Quintly
Alright, then how do you explain Force lightning being capable of pushing someone into the air, holding them stationary while airborne, and then blasting them away again with equal force when the emitter of the lightning is standing far away?I suppose you could postulate that Sidious used another power to levitate his victim, but that is again nothing but a theory.
2 thoughts on this:
Since Sidious is the source of the electric current that is lightning, (which is creating the electric field.) then by determining the strength of the output of the current (i.e., how powerful is his lightning?) from moment to moment could determine the rate of speed of his victim.
When the victim is stationary, Sidious is producing just enough current through his lightning to offset the weight of the victim. (f=mg(g is gravity, which is the acceleration)) To accelerate the victim it would simply be a matter of increasing the force of the lightning (using F=ma, where a= acceleration) until the victim moves. I don't really see a problem, Yes, sidious WOULD Have to increase the force exponentially as the victim retreated IF (and its a big IF) he kept a continuous pressure on the victim) BUT....
what he most likely does is send a massive surge of power to the victim at THAT distance, and then the momentum imparted to the victim carried them away at great speed, NOT the field of the lightning.
Think of it like a lightning punch as opposed to a lightning "carry" and you will see what I mean.
2nd thought: IF the actions of sidious counteracted the known physics of lightning (and i contend that it does not) Then your theory that he used the force to lift and throw his victim is a darn good one, and hardly a stretch at all, since it would fit better with known physics than an alternative theory.
Finally, who exactly does sidious lift up in the air with lightning, hold stationary, and throw? I must have missed that part of star wars?
Sidious does this to Galen Marek in the alternative ending to TFU. Although the events are non-canon, the application of the power is not necessarily so. I'm sure Palpatine can still hurl a transport at someone as well.
Also, what are your thoughts on Sidious possibly being able to regain his footing given the situation that Mace retreats?
Originally posted by Elok Quintly
Also, what are your thoughts on Sidious possibly being able to regain his footing given the situation that Mace retreats?
well, if sidious gets on his feet, you have Mace with a lightsaber, against sidious, who doesn't have one. Advantage is definitly still with Mace.
Originally posted by truejedi
well, if sidious gets on his feet, you have Mace with a lightsaber, against sidious, who doesn't have one. Advantage is definitly still with Mace.
Without levitation, depending on how far Mace retreats, Palpatine could temporarily break off the attack to regain his footing and then resume before Mace has an opportunity to retaliate.
Mace still has to defend against a power-seething Sidious who is still hurling lightning at him. In this scenario, Sidious could even reverse the situation and corner Mace. Heck, given that this is moving away from the window, Sidous has three different Jedi lightsabers he can call upon depending on where they end up.
Sidious is also a master of sun djem.
Originally posted by truejedi
thats exactly what i've been saying. I keep referring to the electric force, NOT to the lightning. Lightning by itself has no force whatsoever. Its the electric field that was putting physical force on Mace's blade. I fail to see where we disagree?
Originally posted by Red Nemesis
[B]He's not applying Real World physics to the Force. He is applying it to a physical phenomenon that simply happens to be powered by the Force. The interactions and effects of the physical manifestation necessarily follow the rules of real world physics.
im pretty sure this is 100% not true. 😐 force lightning isnt even real electricity in all honesty.