"When the last laser door lifted, I gave in to my anger as I charged the dark warrior. I absolutely wanted to destroy him. He used my anger against me, actually fed off my fury, gaining strength as I exhausted my own. I lost my lightsaber and he had me. But then I saw my Master's weapon and as I reached out for it, I heard Qui-Gon's words within me."
Sorry this took an hour; I had to go get movie tickets. I'm off to see the wizards tomorrow.
Now...
Dr McBeefingtonNot even remotely similar.
Then surely you don't call Maul using the force in a saber fight fair either, if we're going to go that route.
Dr McbeefingtonEmphasis mine.
That was his only advantage once Obiwan tapped into his rage.
You're also wrong about Maul's superiority in the Force being his only advantage. While I'm not sure you've realized, I'm concerned with Obi-Wan in his natural, serene state, because that's the one who'll be fighting in this thread. Bloodlusted, sure, he can compete with Maul on even footing, but only for a few precious moments.
JvS: Obi-WanThe very act of empowering himself gives Maul yet another advantage. He chose to end the engagement with a Force push, but this testimonial makes it clear that he was going to win anyway. With the rage, Obi-Wan exhausts himself as Maul strengthens himself, and without that rage Obi-Wan has absolutely nothing on him.
When the last laser door lifted, I gave in to my anger as I charged the dark warrior. I absolutely wanted to destroy him. He used my anger against me, actually fed off my fury, gaining strength as I exhausted my own. I lost my lightsaber and he had me.
In terms of skill with a lightsaber, there's no comparison. Maul overcame Qui-Gon Jinn in single combat. This is the same Qui-Gon who regularly sparred with Mace Windu and Anoon Bondara - a duelist of legendary (if sometimes exaggerated) repute, and one whom Maul happened to thoroughly outclass - on even terms, the same Qui-Gon whose tutor proclaimed him "one of the best [he'd] taught in [...] more than 400 years in the Order." The same Qui-Gon who conceded that Maul was "more than his match in weapons training."
Maul, as you know, was a Juyo practitioner, and had therefore mastered multiple saber styles to a high degree. Obi-Wan is a skillful Ataru practitioner, but Qui-Gon explicitly noted in the TPM novel that "the younger Jedi was not yet his equal." So under his own power, he "isn't the equal" of someone whom Maul was "more than a match" for.
Angry or not, he loses.
Miserably.
Dr McBeefingtonNo.
In my opinion Maul's arrogance and his force using cancel each other out, and make it a legitimate victory.
Dr McBeefingtonFor a few seconds.
Again, in a pure lightsaber battle, Obiwan not only held his own but pushed Maul back.
Dr McBeefingtonSee above.
Maul had to use the force to gain an advantage.
Dr McBeefingtonThat isn't a rebuttal. Concession accepted, no one has proven that Obi-Wan "outclasses" Mighella, Eminence wins again.
Lol. Prove Obiwan is "a hell of a lot weaker than maul."
Dr McBeefington🙄
Where was the advantage exactly faunus? We've all seen the fight. Where is the advantage? Oh you mean the force push? Gotcha.
Dr McBeefington
Or how about the fact that Obiwan did better alone than he did with Maul?
Dr McBeefington
[...] Obiwan tapped into his rage.
Then he lost anyway.
Dr McBeefington
And it took Maul to use a force maneuver during the saber bout to gain any kind of advantage.
Dr McBeefington
[...] Obiwan tapped into his rage.
JvS: Obi-WanBesides, Maul had the advantage the entire duel, controlling the fight with "astonishing ease" even when Obi-Wan had one of the greatest swordsmen in the Order fighting at his side. Maul was a better duelist, a more tactful fighter, a superior Force user, and could match and outlast Obi-Wan's rage. He has all the advantages in the world.
He used my anger against me, actually fed off my fury, gaining strength as I exhausted my own.
Originally posted by Eminence
Sorry this took an hour; I had to go get movie tickets. I'm off to see the wizards tomorrow.
Now...Not even remotely similar.
You're also wrong about Maul's superiority in the Force being his only advantage. While I'm not sure you've realized, I'm concerned with Obi-Wan in his natural, serene state, because that's the one who'll be fighting in this thread. Bloodlusted, sure, he can compete with Maul on even footing, but only for a few precious moments.The very act of empowering himself gives Maul yet another advantage. He chose to end the engagement with a Force push, but this testimonial makes it clear that he was going to win anyway. With the rage, Obi-Wan exhausts himself as Maul strengthens himself, and without that rage Obi-Wan has absolutely nothing on him.
Maul, as you know, was a Juyo practitioner, and had therefore mastered multiple saber styles to a high degree. Obi-Wan is a skillful Ataru practitioner, but Qui-Gon explicitly noted in the TPM novel that "the younger Jedi was not yet his equal." So under his own power, he "isn't the equal" of someone whom Maul was "more than a match" for.
Angry or not, he loses.
That isn't a rebuttal. Concession accepted, no one has proven that Obi-Wan "outclasses" Mighella, Eminence wins again.
🙄Hint:Obi-Wan did better alone because he was enraged.Then he lost anyway.
Besides, Maul had the advantage the entire duel, controlling the fight with "astonishing ease" even when Obi-Wan had one of the greatest swordsmen in the Order fighting at his side. Maul was a better duelist, a more tactful fighter, a superior Force user, and could match and outlast Obi-Wan's rage. He has all the advantages in the world.
One thing I forgot to add to Faunus' contention that there's no proof Obiwan>Mighella.
Mighella used the dark side to fight Maul and she couldn't touch him. Obiwan became enraged, and used some extent of the dark side, and very nearly defeated Maul. While I agree that Obiwan is generally going to be peaceful, it doesn't look like Mighella is equipped beat him in any kind of a battle.
DSI have. But this is a movie I'd actually like to watch.
I'm sure you are. I hope you found a (barely)legal girl that's willing to watch such hilarity.
And unlike you, I don't have to worry about the issue of legality for another few months. If anything happens, it'd be her fault. 😉
DSYes.
You're saying Obiwan won ONLY because of circumstance.
DSObi-Wan hanging unarmed on the edge of a bottomless pit with his triumphant opponent standing over him, then conveniently finding a lightsaber to use, is circumstance. Maul using the Force to disarm an opponent he'd already worn out and outclassed isn't.
How is that different than Maul being pushed back and the only way he gained the advantage was using a force maneuver?
I mean, how are they at all the same?
DSIt doesn't contradict it in any way, if that's the implication.
And I'm not sure the quote does you any good because it doesn't say much for the actual fight that we've seen.
DS... Where?
Testimonial Faunus? His testimonial also makes it clear that Maul knew they were going to defeat them so he split them up.
DSI have no idea what you're talking about. The TPM novel confirms that Qui-Gon was exhausting himself due to age and notes that Maul was "stronger" than Obi-Wan, that line from JvS confirms that Obi-Wan quickly drained himself while using his rage and Maul fed off of it.
Isn't that contradicted by I forget, which other source that states Maul was getting stronger while the two were getting weaker?
DSIt'd be considerably more ridiculous, because it'd be dead wrong while the other claim wouldn't be.
I never once claimed that without rage Obiwan was equal to Maul. That claim would be as ridiculous as Obiwan being a hell of a lot weaker than Maul.
DSWho's trained him for twelve years and knows him inside out.
He isn't the equal according to Qui-Gon.
I know we hold a lot of in-universe lines under scrutiny, but there's no arguing this one.
DSAngry Obi-Wan loses, regular Obi-Wan loses even harder. This isn't difficult to follow, DS.
Now it's angry or not?
DSThis is all addressed in the previous post. You're grasping at straws.
You made it clear that we're talking about a peaceful Obiwan, who wouldn't defeat Maul. Angry Obiwan? He more than held his own.
DS
Yet you haven't proven that Maul is miles ahead of Obiwan.
Eminence
The very act of empowering himself gives Maul yet another advantage. He chose to end the engagement with a Force push, but this testimonial makes it clear that he was going to win anyway. With the rage, Obi-Wan exhausts himself as Maul strengthens himself, and without that rage Obi-Wan has absolutely nothing on him.In terms of skill with a lightsaber, there's no comparison. Maul overcame Qui-Gon Jinn in single combat. This is the same Qui-Gon who regularly sparred with Mace Windu and Anoon Bondara - a duelist of legendary (if sometimes exaggerated) repute, and one whom Maul happened to thoroughly outclass - on even terms, the same Qui-Gon whose tutor proclaimed him "one of the best [he'd] taught in [...] more than 400 years in the Order." The same Qui-Gon who conceded that Maul was "more than his match in weapons training."
Maul, as you know, was a Juyo practitioner, and had therefore mastered multiple saber styles to a high degree. Obi-Wan is a skillful Ataru practitioner, but Qui-Gon explicitly noted in the TPM novel that "the younger Jedi was not yet his equal." So under his own power, he "isn't the equal" of someone whom Maul was "more than a match" for.
Angry or not, he loses.
Miserably.
Eminence
Besides, Maul had the advantage the entire duel, controlling the fight with "astonishing ease" even when Obi-Wan had one of the greatest swordsmen in the Order fighting at his side. Maul was a better duelist, a more tactful fighter, a superior Force user, and could match and outlast Obi-Wan's rage. He has all the advantages in the world.
DSI never said she's in the same league as Obi-Wan, I said no one had proven that Obi-Wan "outclassed" her.
Nor is there any proof that mighella is in the same league as Obiwan. I'd call this delusion #1 on your part in this post.
Your reading comprehension never fails to amaze.
DSNo.
Yes, by a force maneuver. Just like Maul lost because of his overconfidence. See how those two cancel each othero ut?
Again, reread the last post. Or have someone read it to you, and then I'll break the difficult parts down for you.
DSConcession accepted. You're on a roll.
Which really helped him out in the end.🙄
DSShe stopped him mid-leap with a burst of lightning and for a few moments had him on his knees.
One thing I forgot to add to Faunus' contention that there's no proof Obiwan>Mighella.Mighella used the dark side to fight Maul and she couldn't touch him.
DSObi-Wan became enraged, cut Maul's lightsaber in half, exhausted himself, and got thrown into a pit. In the context of a versus match, this is more impressive... how?
Obiwan became enraged, and used some extent of the dark side, and very nearly defeated Maul.
DSA contention that remains unproven.
While I agree that Obiwan is generally going to be peaceful, it doesn't look like Mighella is equipped beat him in any kind of a battle.
Originally posted by Eminence
I have. But this is a movie I'd actually like to watch.And unlike you, I don't have to worry about the issue of legality for another few months. If anything happens, it'd be her fault. 😉
Yes.
Obi-Wan hanging unarmed on the edge of a bottomless pit with his triumphant opponent standing over him, then conveniently finding a lightsaber to use, is circumstance. Maul using the Force to disarm an opponent he'd already worn out and outclassed isn't.
I mean, how are they at all the same?It doesn't contradict it in any way, if that's the implication.
... Where?
"Just as I sensed that the creature was aware that Qui-Gon and I would beat him, he found a way to divide us."
I have no idea what you're talking about. The TPM novel confirms that Qui-Gon was exhausting himself due to age and notes that Maul was "stronger" than Obi-Wan, that line from JvS confirms that Obi-Wan quickly drained himself while using his rage and Maul fed off of it.
It'd be considerably more ridiculous, because it'd be dead wrong while the other claim wouldn't be.
Angry Obi-Wan loses, regular Obi-Wan loses even harder. This isn't difficult to follow, DS.
This is all addressed in the previous post. You're grasping at straws.
I never said she's in the same league as Obi-Wan, I said no one had proven that Obi-Wan "outclassed" her.
Your reading comprehension never fails to amaze.
Again, reread the last post. Or have someone read it to you, and then I'll break the difficult parts down for you.
Concession accepted. You're on a roll.
She stopped him mid-leap with a burst of lightning and for a few moments had him on his knees.
Obi-Wan became enraged, cut Maul's lightsaber in half, exhausted himself, and got thrown into a pit. In the context of a versus match, this is more impressive... how?
A contention that remains unproven.😎
Originally posted by Eminence
I'm going to respond to this later, maybe tomorrow or the day after. You aren't being any denser than usual, but my tolerance for you is randomly at an all time low and you're starting to get on my nerves.
Great, perhaps you'll be able to drop the prepubsecent, self esteem related superiority complex, stop bitching, and make some valid points. This doesn't include "this is true because I say so". Some things to consider while you're undoubtedly trying to increase your internet popularity:
1. Explaining how Maul force pushing Obiwan constitutes as a victory in a light saber duel.
2. Explaining why force pushing Obiwan is alright, but Obiwan capitalizing on Maul's arrogance is just plain luck.
3. Why convincing yourself is going to help you sleep better at night.
4. Getting the source material before trying to debate.
1. Explaining how Maul force pushing Obiwan constitutes as a victory in a light saber duel.
Becuase he created an opportunity to attack with his push during a duel and with his skills. That Obi gave him this opportunity constitutes a failing on his part.
2. Explaining why force pushing Obiwan is alright, but Obiwan capitalizing on Maul's arrogance is just plain luck.
Becuase Maul had to work for his victory. Maul gave Obi his.
I'm seriously confused as to how people are unable to decipher the difference between a combative technique in the midst of a duel with two armed opponents with their guards up----and one of them killing the other when their guard is down because he was being stupid. When have we ever accepted that as legitimate argument for use in a thread's match?