Batman vs Spiderman

Originally posted by Juk3n
Cap, see's/reacts/can move at a level greater than any other HUMAN can ever achieve. According to the MU. This to me is why he can give Spider-man a good fight. batmans limitations stop at Human, however the DCU want to implement that. I guess it's just a circular argument becuase yes you're right Batman has comparible feats in his universe which apparently allows a much higher standard of peak humanity.

So, i guess we'll leave it as agree to dis-agree.

Originally posted by Juk3n
Cap, see's/reacts/can move at a level greater than any other HUMAN can ever achieve. According to the MU. This to me is why he can give Spider-man a good fight. batmans limitations stop at Human, however the DCU want to implement that. I guess it's just a circular argument becuase yes you're right Batman has comparible feats in his universe which apparently allows a much higher standard of peak humanity.

So, i guess we'll leave it as agree to dis-agree.

Exactly, he has comparable feats. So, obviously, he could give Spiderman a comparable fight.

And that's without considering his utility belt and his prep.

Originally posted by Wild Shadow
dont forget the other advantage cap has that bat doesnt that has allowed him to take and hang with pete the shield... their is a reason he needs it against opponents like pete even with peak human stats.

Originally posted by grimify
Exactly, he has comparable feats. So, obviously, he could give Spiderman a comparable fight.

And that's without considering his utility belt and his prep.

Exactly.

Originally posted by grimify
Exactly, he has comparable feats. So, obviously, he could give Spiderman a comparable fight.

And that's without considering his utility belt and his prep.

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
It won't be comparably good on the forum...

Why not?

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
It won't be comparably good on the forum... in a comic book... sure.

Yea we use it as reference while going by forum rules and using logical parameters or else there is no point. I mean Flash is far deadlier here than he ever was in a comic. I guess I'll just use him getting hit by a boomerang.

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
Yea we use it as reference while going by forum rules and using logical parameters or else there is no point. I mean Flash is far deadlier here than he ever was in a comic. I guess I'll just use him getting hit by a boomerang.

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
Yea we use it as reference while going by forum rules and using logical parameters or else there is no point. I mean Flash is far deadlier here than he ever was in a comic. I guess I'll just use him getting hit by a boomerang.

That doesnt mean Bats and Spiderman arent comparable in some aspects on KMC if thats what you were trying to say.

So basically evereytime Spiderman has had a trouble with a street leveler its been lowballing?

Originally posted by Juntai
That'd be lowballing him, we take characters at optimum. At optimum, Batman is as effective as pretty much any street leveler, even without powers of his own to match them. His combat effectiveness is at least as good as anyone else in that class. 🙂

I've also said my stance on other characters hanging with others. We've only seen a few glimpses of a non-fooling around Spiderman. But we've seen quite a few good showings of him. Never said no character "doesn't stand any chance" against another, it's all on how you look at it.

It wouldn't be lowballing with Flash though, I mean when has he ever just instakilled even streetlevelers like DS before they thought?

Originally posted by Tha C-Master

It wouldn't be lowballing with Flash though, I mean when has he ever just instakilled even streetlevelers like DS before they thought?

Do you recall the issue when Flash just ran by, lifted up Deathstroke, and slammed him into a pole, and apprehended him?

lol.

Flash's showings suggest it's lowballing, though I admit, he is a victim of PIS/CIS a lot.

Comparing Flash and Spiderman isn't really applicable, imo.

At optimum, Flash is WAY too much for street levelers, even at their optimum. The same is not quite as true for Spiderman.
🙂

Originally posted by Juntai
Flash doesn't kill, that's what seperates him from guys like Punisher in terms of being a hero.

Do you recall the issue when Flash just ran by, lifted up Deathstroke, and slammed him into a pole, and apprehended him?

lol.

Flash's showings suggest it's lowballing, though I admit, he is a victim of PIS/CIS a lot.

Comparing Flash and Spiderman isn't really applicable, imo.

He wouldn't beat Superman or probably Batman in a comic, but he has the concensus here. That is what I'm saying about using comics alone.

Meh, Spiderman is a victim of underwriting when he is fighting lower level characters, but not as bad as Flash obviously (they stand 0 chance against Flash). His history has him fighitng much faster and stronger opponents only to job to heroes. It's the nature of the beast.

For example, he has defeated Hulk (although Hulk would beat the hell out of him on the forum), and has recently stood up to Rulk (though he would lose), in those examples he wasn't fighting like Mary Jane died and he "gave them trouble". It's easy to agree he doesn't fight a character like DD in the same manner he fights (and consistently fights) guys like Iron Man or a heavy hitter.

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
I know he doesn't kill, but he has the control to KO.

He wouldn't beat Superman or probably Batman in a comic, but he has the concensus here. That is what I'm saying about using comics alone.

Meh, Spiderman is a victim of underwriting when he is fighting lower level characters, but not as bad as Flash obviously (they stand 0 chance against Flash). His history has him fighitng much faster and stronger opponents only to job to heroes. It's the nature of the beast.

For example, he has defeated Hulk (although Hulk would beat the hell out of him on the forum), and has recently stood up to Rulk (though he would lose), in those examples he wasn't fighting like Mary Jane died and he "gave them trouble". It's easy to agree he doesn't fight a character like DD in the same manner he fights (and consistently fights) guys like Iron Man or a heavy hitter.

I wouldn't say that's Spiderman being underwritten then, but Hulk in those examples...

But Captain America has similar feats of fighting Hulk, in fact, in the arc recently Lost Son was it called, the Loeb Arc right after Cap's death?[something like that] with Spiderman remembering running into Hulk and Captain America coming to the rescue and saving him and they KO Hulk together.

Batman has similar feats, I explained some earlier in the thread.

I agree, Spiderman won't beat Hulk for a majority, or Batman won't beat Mongul just the same.

Characters fight guys much, stronger at times, that's part of my point about effectiveness in combat despite superior stats. Guys with less powers, tend to just plain fight harder, or better, because they don't have that same crutch. Batman's combat effectiveness by showing is just as good if not better than anyone in his class, despite not having physical advantages, the proof is in the puddin', so to speak.

You'll be hard pressed to find a street leveler that Batman won't give a good fight to. Not to say he'll neccisarily win or lose, but he'll give anyone in that class a fight.

Point being, if you can accept Captain America, or Wolverine, or Elektra, or daredevil giving Spiderman a fight, there's no reason to think he's going to run over and punch Batman in half, who is as effective as anyone there.

Albeit no superpowers, Batman is still written as much more than the standard human or even standard hero. Such there's examples in the old Outsider's series [the one with Geoforce, Faust and them.], where the entire team would be getting decimated, and Batman would swing into action, and clobber the shit out of whoever it was, with a series of gadgets and kung fu grips, and they'd leave.

There's not a lot to be said for a human who hangs out with guys that are almost invariably godlike, and impresses them more every day, and twice on Sundays.

Originally posted by Juntai
I wouldn't say that's Spiderman being underwritten then, but Hulk in those examples...

But Captain America has similar feats of fighting Hulk, in fact, in the arc recently Lost Son was it called, the Loeb Arc right after Cap's death?[something like that] with Spiderman remembering running into Hulk and Captain America coming to the rescue and saving him and they KO Hulk together.

Batman has similar feats, I explained some earlier in the thread.

I agree, Spiderman won't beat Hulk for a majority, or Batman won't beat Mongul just the same.

Characters fight guys much, stronger at times, that's part of my point about effectiveness in combat despite superior stats. Guys with less powers, tend to just plain fight harder, or better, because they don't have that same crutch. Batman's combat effectiveness by showing is just as good if not better than anyone in his class, despite not having physical advantages, the proof is in the puddin', so to speak.

You'll be hard pressed to find a street leveler that Batman won't give a good fight to. Not to say he'll neccisarily win or lose, but he'll give anyone in that class a fight.

Point being, if you can accept Captain America, or Wolverine, or Elektra, or daredevil giving Spiderman a fight, there's no reason to think he's going to run over and punch Batman in half, who is as effective as anyone there.

But, not to be slightly off topic, but I think the forum just benefits other characters more, kinda like a line. Guys like Flash, Supes, GL, (anyone with vague powers), Spiderman (to some degree, although much less), benefit from how the forum is presented.

I think more human level characters like Cap and DD tend to get powered down a bit to around movie levels, just because how the forum is and the logic presented, even if Spiderman were at movie levels he is still portrayed far superior.

But the last argument was never mine about Batman not standing a chance based on other fights. It's really based on whose histories you are looking at, and our best way to deduce them along with our statistically knowledge to keep things in line IMO. It's just like all of these characters have done similar dodges to Spiderman but are they faster than him? Absolutely not.

people just haven't seen an angry spider-man, definitely not someone to phuck with.

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
Spiderman is well within power to dodge him, the other's probably shouldn't for long though, Hulk has superhuman speed.

But, not to be slightly off topic, but I think the forum just benefits other characters more, kinda like a line. Guys like Flash, Supes, GL, (anyone with vague powers), Spiderman (to some degree, although much less), benefit from how the forum is presented.

I think more human level characters like Cap and DD tend to get powered down a bit to around movie levels, just because how the forum is and the logic presented, even if Spiderman were at movie levels he is still portrayed far superior.

But the last argument was never mine about Batman not standing a chance based on other fights. It's really based on whose histories you are looking at, and our best way to deduce them along with our statistically knowledge to keep things in line IMO. It's just like all of these characters have done similar dodges to Spiderman but are they faster than him? Absolutely not.

^ don't forget webbing, something batman doesn't have much experience combating. add to the fact spider-man's overwhelming strength behind that webbing to reel him in if caught.