Batman vs Spiderman

Started by Space M ummy20 pages

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
Exactly why featwars are a bad way to argue and are entirely circular. I could use Firelord, Strange, Magneto, FF, Xmen, Hulk, Titania, etc. All of the high stories of Spiderman, and show Batman have problems with guys like the Huge Batclone in the Father/Son Arc. Or his original enemies like Penguin, etc. We both know that these characters have taken "far worse" it's what they do as heroes.

Feats have their purpose but simply saying what happens and not taking the character's abilities into consideration that have been established leads to these types of arguments. A big problem here on this forum.

Common sense tells us that Batman isn't pulletproof and that a bullet to the head will kill him, Spiderman generates much more force than a bullet. He has prep here which gives him the advantage.

This. you can bring up all the feats you want, but at the end of the day, Batman is still human. a SKILLED human, no doubt, but still human. That's the point of the character. Start giving him superhuman abilities and you sort of lose the point of what makes batman compelling in the first place.

That being said, no amount of skill or willpower is going to allow batman to survive the equivalent of a tractor trailer to the face if he gets hit. And spiderman needs to do this ONCE. it could potentially be two or three or four of these.

Yes, there are ridiculous instances of batman taking shots from people like mongul, but you're being really, REALLY disingenuous if you don't think those feats belong SQUARELY in the same category as spiderman KOing firelord or knocking out the hulk with superspeed punches.

Such feats exist, but they're serious, SERIOUS outliers and no one should reasonably takes them seriously as a gauge of what the character can do.

Originally posted by Juntai
I wasn't suggesting it'd be completely ineffectual. I gave examples of a great range of characters with super-strength and enhanced speed, some a little less than, some greater, some much greater than Spiderman, to prove the point that the physical advantages are nothing he hasn't encountered, felt, or overcome, when it was suggested a half-assed blow from Spiderman would simply kill him. Which doesn't line up well with his showings at all.

And what exactly do you think a punch from a 5 ton (half ass'd Spider-man) pushing source would do to a human body? Bullet proof armor or not.

And one more thing, out of the examples you gave of the class 100+ "heavy blows" did ANY of them strike you as PIS? or did u just readily accept that physics & human Biology - even comic book physics and human biology - make way for the Batman? I mean, i try not to take it all so seriously, - dodged a bullet or 10, sure, i'll let that slide, bad shooter? bad angle? moving target sure, i can stretch my imagination thus far. But when Superman hits Batman with a "heavy blow" then the Batman should cocking die.

Are you the guy that saw BP's famous Silver Surfer Armbar and thought " hmm, yeah. I can see that, makes perfect sense"? Are you open to the idea that a character can have MANY examples of PIS through out his entire career?

Originally posted by Juntai
He wouldn't have to use anything too extreme, simply rigging the battlefield with enough that allows him choose the tempo of the battle should be enough in most scenarios.

If we're talking tech, there's a lot of small things that can weigh in to big advantages that he carries on him, or in some scenarios, bring things that offer nearly an 'instant win', which is often the case in a comic scenario where Batman is prepped correctly.

Wouldn't some of those riggings put himself at risk though? I mean if we're talking about mines or similar devices...
Originally posted by Space M ummy
This. you can bring up all the feats you want, but at the end of the day, Batman is still human. a SKILLED human, no doubt, but still human. That's the point of the character. Start giving him superhuman abilities and you sort of lose the point of what makes batman compelling in the first place.

That being said, no amount of skill or willpower is going to allow batman to survive the equivalent of a tractor trailer to the face if he gets hit. And spiderman needs to do this ONCE. it could potentially be two or three or four of these.

Yes, there are ridiculous instances of batman taking shots from people like mongul, but you're being really, REALLY disingenuous if you don't think those feats belong SQUARELY in the same category as spiderman KOing firelord or knocking out the hulk with superspeed punches.

Such feats exist, but they're serious, SERIOUS outliers and no one should reasonably takes them seriously as a gauge of what the character can do.

Beautiful, been saying that for years, glad people grasp it. Which I think most do, but just use those examples just to do it. *Shrugs.*

Originally posted by Juk3n
And what exactly do you think a punch from a 5 ton (half ass'd Spider-man) pushing source would do to a human body? Bullet proof armor or not.

And one more thing, out of the examples you gave of the class 100+ "heavy blows" did ANY of them strike you as PIS? or did u just readily accept that physics & human Biology - even comic book physics and human biology - make way for the Batman?


Of course, I know Batman can't take out Mongul or Superman. He does however consistently defeat, or take blows from super-powered beings. I went a little extreme perhaps, showing some top end ones, but I followed it up suggesting others in a much broader range. Suggesting someone with any measure of super-strength is too much for Batman by default, would be completely going against what the character does on a consistent basis.

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
Wouldn't some of those riggings put himself at risk though? I mean if we're talking about mines or similar devices... *
You don't think Batman would have all of that calculated?

Originally posted by Juntai
You don't think Batman would have all of that calculated?
Oh of course, it's just that Spider-man has legendary resourcefulness as well, I think he would be best trying to throw his precog off and going on the attack.

Originally posted by Juntai
Of course, I know Batman can't take out Mongul or Superman. He does however consistently defeat, or take blows from super-powered beings. I went a little extreme perhaps, showing some top end ones, but I followed it up suggesting others in a much broader range. Suggesting someone with any measure of super-strength is too much for Batman by default, would be completely going against what the character does on a consistent basis.
Kinda like the Flash getting tagged by much slower things when he shouldn't.

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
Beautiful, been saying that for years, glad people grasp it. Which I think most do, but just use those examples just to do it. *Shrugs.*

To an extent but Batman beating Spiderman isnt the same as Batman taking shots from Mongul or Superman.

There are like 100s of examples that imply that batman could handle Spiderman in a fight.

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
Oh of course, it's just that Spider-man has legendary resourcefulness as well, I think he would be best trying to throw his precog off and going on the attack.
Fair enough, what I meant however was, by rigging the battlefield, he could potentially do so in a way to negate most if not all advantages Parker brings to the table. It would make him fight a certain way, and possibly be on the defensive/recieving end of such, nearly if not all of the whole fight.
Batman with two days to prepare could potentially do almost anything.
Such is the risk of vagueness involved in 'prep-time'.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
To an extent but Batman beating Spiderman isnt the same as Batman taking shots from Mongul or Superman.

There are like 100s of examples that imply that batman could handle Spiderman in a fight.

Like?

Sorry to be a d!ck. But i just need one good example to satisfy me. One good non PISsy example. Someone with Spider-mans strength/speed/precog combination. 2/3 maybe. Someone comparable.

Originally posted by Juk3n
Like?

Sorry to be a d!ck. But i just need one good example to satisfy me. One good non PISsy example. Someone with Spider-mans strength/speed/precog combination. 2/3 maybe.

The fcat that he has comparable showings to Captain America...

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
To an extent but Batman beating Spiderman isnt the same as Batman taking shots from Mongul or Superman.

There are like 100s of examples that imply that batman could handle Spiderman in a fight.

And there are loads of examples to say otherwise, my point was circular arguments start by high-low end featwars. Nothing about Batman not being able to give him a fight.

Several ways to look at it.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
The fcat that he has comparable showings to Captain America...
Hate to start another thread in here, but we both know Spiderman doesn't fight/hit Captain America by KMC standards.

Originally posted by Juntai
Fair enough, what I meant however was, by rigging the battlefield, he could potentially do so in a way to negate most if not all advantages Parker brings to the table. It would make him fight a certain way, and possibly be on the defensive/recieving end of such, nearly if not all of the whole fight.
Batman with two days to prepare could potentially do almost anything.
Such is the risk of vagueness involved in 'prep-time'.
I agree, using "prep time" is the leading way to get arguments like "He's Batman!! He'll think of something."

Originally posted by Space M ummy
This. you can bring up all the feats you want, but at the end of the day, Batman is still human. a SKILLED human, no doubt, but still human. That's the point of the character. Start giving him superhuman abilities and you sort of lose the point of what makes batman compelling in the first place.

That being said, no amount of skill or willpower is going to allow batman to survive the equivalent of a tractor trailer to the face if he gets hit. And spiderman needs to do this ONCE. it could potentially be two or three or four of these.

Yes, there are ridiculous instances of batman taking shots from people like mongul, but you're being really, REALLY disingenuous if you don't think those feats belong SQUARELY in the same category as spiderman KOing firelord or knocking out the hulk with superspeed punches.

Such feats exist, but they're serious, SERIOUS outliers and no one should reasonably takes them seriously as a gauge of what the character can do.

Agreed. Earlier in this thread I brought up the SM vs FL in defence of Spiderman, to counter the "Spiderman always has a hard time against non super martial artists" arguement. I agree that Spidey vs Firelord was PIS, but isn't Batman's ability to take hits from DC's class 100 characters, without being knocked out also PIS.
And as for MA being Spiderman's kryptonite-why is he consistently an even match for Puma who is skilled in MA (though not as skilled as Bats) and on the same power level as Spiderman -Puma is in the same league, reflexes and agility wise and is slightly stronger (12ton strength as opposed to Pete's 10ton strength)

Originally posted by Juk3n
Like?

Sorry to be a d!ck. But i just need one good example to satisfy me. One good non PISsy example. Someone with Spider-mans strength/speed/precog combination. 2/3 maybe. Someone comparable.

It's all subjective, because you'll readily call PIS on any of them you don't like, despite a vast amount of instances showing otherwise.

Originally posted by Juntai

Alternatively, I could go towards more of the middle of the pack, and talk about him doing the same with characters like Hawkgirl, Deathstroke, Hawkman, Killer Croc, Cheeta, Starman, or the Parademons as mentioned before?

etc. etc. etc.

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
And there are loads of examples to say otherwise, my point was circular arguments start by high-low end featwars. Nothing about Batman not being able to give him a fight.

Yeah I agree however Batman can beat Spiderman in a fight and vice versa. I gathered from what you have said in the past is that Spiderman would muller Batman, Cap other street levelers.

Originally posted by Tha C-Master

Several ways to look at it. Hate to start another thread in here, but we both know Spiderman doesn't fight/hit Captain America by KMC standards.

Doesnt make a difference because of reasons already explained.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
The fcat that he has comparable showings to Captain America...

SRSLY..

So if i read this right, you're saying; Batman beats Spider-man, because Batman and Cap have some = showings to a certain extent.

Just to think that wad of proof has been staring me in the face for years, it all seems so simple now.

Goodjob!

Originally posted by BUSTER1
Agreed. Earlier in this thread I brought up the SM vs FL in defence of Spiderman, to counter the "Spiderman always has a hard time against non super martial artists" arguement. I agree that Spidey vs Firelord was PIS, but isn't Batman's ability to take hits from DC's class 100 characters, without being knocked out also PIS.
And as for MA being Spiderman's kryptonite-why is he consistently an even match for Puma who is skilled in MA (though not as skilled as Bats) and on the same power level as Spiderman -Puma is in the same league, reflexes and agility wise and is slightly stronger (12ton strength as opposed to Pete's 10ton strength)
Somebody explained this line of arguing perfectly YEARS ago, a look at what circular featwar arguing does. I hope people will see the point. Read a few pages.

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=308935&pagenumber=221

Originally posted by Juk3n
SRSLY..

So if i read this right, you're saying; Batman beats Spider-man, because Batman and Cap have some = showings to a certain extent.

Just to think that wad of proof has been staring me in the face for years, it all seems so simple now.

Goodjob!

Whats wrong with that logic? Hes also got comparable feats to characters less skilled than Cap who have given Spiderman trouble in h2h. Dont see what your problem is.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Whats wrong with that logic? Hes also got comparable feats to characters less skilled than Cap. Dont see what your problem is.

Well i don't have one now. Thats it for me. Can't argue with stone cold facts like "Batman can do some of the stuff Captain America can do so..."

Like i said, the answer is staring us all dead in the face. Batman </>/= Captain America. So Batman > Spider-man.

Cool!