Originally posted by Battlehammer
That was not at his classic levels that was after the other arc. Even then she was aiming at him, wolverine aimed at his clothing there a differences. Logan neevr intended to hit spiderman, MJ did. Not to mention that was more or less stupid that his spidersenses went crazy from MJ pillow he stated before many times that there is different levels of his spidersenses depending on the threat to him or others.
No, that wasn't after the other. That was an old issue, can't remember.
Originally posted by Mindset
His spidersense was better at his classic levels.His spidersense has gone off for less, it would have gone off.
No it not, it was more evolved after the other.
It also has not gone off many times for similar events or even worses ones. Also again wolverien never aim to hiot spiderman, there be no need for it to go off, there was no threat of him being harm or being hit. Not that it matter sinces at that closes even if the spidersenses did go off ther eno reason wolverine could not hit him.
Originally posted by Battlehammer
? it was after the other to my knowledge, it was an event to show how much his spidersenses had improved.
Maybe it happened after The Other arc, too. I dunno. The one I was talking about was much older issue. The one with Morbius and his cannibals? Sorry, I really can't remember.
Originally posted by MshinuPlease let's leave Wolverine out of every thread... (not talking about you directly), I'm just sick of that debate popping up every five seconds. When it isn't even about him.
Speaking of which.. here is the Spider`s fabled deadliness when not holding backhttp://img84.imageshack.us/img84/1016/mcp1nj1.jpg
http://img84.imageshack.us/img84/6981/mcp2wq8.jpg
http://img84.imageshack.us/img84/9273/mpc3gh8.jpg
He clearly was holding back here though dude, he says so himself. Onto the thread, Batman with prep has the advantage. (dur)
Originally posted by Tha C-Master
Please let's leave Wolverine out of every thread... (not talking about you directly), I'm just sick of that debate popping up every five seconds. When it isn't even about him.
True. However I am sick of the "Soidey`s holding back" excuse. This is an example of him not holding back gainst an opponent who has skills and speed similar to Batman.
He clearly was holding back here though dude, he says so himself.
Wrong, he is clearly not holding back at the start since his punchshatters a brick chimmney into a thousand pieces. He considers holding back for a second "gee maybe I should cool it since this guy might not have superpowers" then gets smacked and abandons the idea. He still gets his ass handed to him and could have been killed twice.
Onto the thread, Batman with prep has the advantage. (dur).
Yes Batman with prep is not even a contest. Without the prep I still give it to Bats but he`ll struggles a bit more to win than Cap or Wolvie would. Unless bug spray is part of his standard gear now.
Originally posted by MshinuIf it makes you slower you need to train more, it is easy to learn.
As for wolvie saying it makes spidey slower, well I must have overestimated his skills if he can`t even do this.
Excuses. I proved a point you refuse to accept. Holding back = fighting less effective. I told you that, Logan confirmed it, doesn't take even a ma expert to know that. Just logic. You know it too but are too stubborn to admit it.
Originally posted by Mshinu
You fail to grasp my logic. Lets try again. High level MAists are shown quite consistently able to hang with "the more powerful". Spidey is no exception.
The thing is Spider-man himself is shown quite constantly able to hang with beings that are many times more powerful than him. That doesn't help your case. Batman beats more powerful opponents in his books as well, that doesn't mean he can beat Wolverine on a vs forum, Spider-man is nt just another villain from Cap's books..
Originally posted by Mshinu
The beatings Cap has put on Spidey are so humiliating that even if he was holding back to a ridicolus level it shows he Can`t handle him even at peak.
Wonder how you came to that conclusion, it only shows that Cap is skilled enough to handle a holding back Spider-man that doesn't want to fight and hates himself for even concidering that. That's all that proves and as I said hardly gives Cap much credit.
Originally posted by Mshinu
Anyway Cap does not want to seriously injure Peter either so the holding back goes both ways. Yes he CAN injure him. Using his shield he could put him out for good.
The same shield Spider-man was easilly dodging? Also "holding back" in Cap's case only means not trying to cut Parkers head off with the shield, he doesn't need to pull his attacks at all, on the other hand EVERY Pete's attack can break Cap's bones. So dont even try to make it sound even. Cap is a soldier, he'd fight anyone for the cause, Spider-man on the other hand would doubt himself a billion times before hitting Cap once because he respects him too much.
Originally posted by Mshinu
Spiderman has admitted he fears the Rhino even.
Read Spider-man books. I already told you, that was a weak attempt to make Rhino look good. Next time they met Spider-man koed him effortlessly. Spider-man kicks his ass too often and does it without breaking a sweat while laughing at him. So no, Rhino's a joke for Spider-man, that one book hardly proves anything out of 50 other where Spider-man kicks his ass. I remember a book where Batman sas that Joker is a loser and is his least dangerous villain. Yeah, he said it ONCE, does that make Joker a joke in Batman's book? No. Next time they met he was his "archnemesis" again.
Originally posted by Mshinu
He gets his wins but overall he still has a record of trouble handling fighters. Sure his spider sense helps him but sheer skill seems to bee to much for him once he slips up. Cap is a superb densive fighter and with his shield, right he won`t allow Spidey to hit him once before an opening presents itself and then BAM BAM.
What do you mean by "sliping up"? I never doubted that Cap is a great fighter and Id pick him over Batman any day. Spider-man has trouble against ma fighters some times, yes. And I already explained why. But I already gave you several examples of what happens when he gets mad and holds back less than usual. All the skills his opponents have then at best give them the chance to last longer (that is if they dont have any special powers.) but Parker using his powers alone turns out too be too much for them. When it comes to Cap Spider-man doesnt just hold back, he HATES the idea of fighting someone he respect so mch. It's like punching in the face your own father.
Originally posted by BattlehammerIm not. The only thing i was not sure about is his age. The rest is true. Spider-man said that Wolverine was "doing something to his head making him move in slowmotion" that would've hardly been a problem if he only FELT that way, later he said again that he's fighting slow and dumb because of the fear. An no, Spider-man tagged Wolverine twice, after he allowed his ss to work for him he landed many more punches, and NO Wolverine didn't LET him do that, he was on the ground and was smiling to freak Spider-man out even more because thats the only thing he could do at that moment. The punches didn't do any damage but Wolverine couldnt stop Spider-man either. That's why Logan didnt use the claws later, Spider-man stopped fighting, there was no longer need to kill him. Also Spider-man "plan" to kill Wolverine didn't fool Logan for a second. Not to mention if even Spider-man TRIED to he would've failed anyway..
He was not 16, for starters. Second spiderman was not tagging wolverine either, so that hardly helps your cases.No spiderman was not moving slower let a lone much slower, it felt that way due to fear and adrenalin and it a common fact when he relies purely on spider senses like he did, he moves faster and harder to hit. Please dont misrepresent events.
Originally posted by BattlehammerNot what I meant. Im saying that Wolverine WOULD kill if he's fighting say some nameless handninjas. Spider-man wouldnt kill even then.
Your wrong, he holds back constantly and especially vs hero's.
Originally posted by SamZED
What do you mean by "sliping up"? I never doubted that Cap is a great fighter and Id pick him over Batman any day. Spider-man has trouble against ma fighters some times, yes. And I already explained why. But I already gave you several examples of what happens when he gets mad and holds back less than usual. All the skills his opponents have then at best give them the chance to last longer (that is if they dont have any special powers.) but Parker using his powers alone turns out too be too much for them. When it comes to Cap Spider-man doesnt just hold back, he HATES the idea of fighting someone he respect so mch. It's like punching in the face your own father.
Slipping up means he attacks, misses and leaves himself open to a counter.
See the links I posted earlier for the rootop fight where he gets beat while not holding back. He still makes the same mistakes as always and gets smacked for it. His "powers" are not too much because they are not honed by proper training and neither does he have the mindset of a fighter.
As for the rest of your post I did not quote, it is just repeating the same childish illogical mantra over again and deserves no further reply than has been given earlier.
Originally posted by Mshinu😂 You mean the fight where Spider-man though he was fighting some idiot in Wolverine's costume. Please. He was holding back as usual, he even holds back when he fights the green goblin, fact. Im telling you this, C-master told you this. "cooling off" means holding back even more. He shattered some bricks, that's your proof? Batman could do that, doesn't require a class 10 strength in comics.
Slipping up means he attacks, misses and leaves himself open to a counter.See the links I posted earlier for the rootop fight where he gets beat while not holding back. He still makes the same mistakes as always and gets smacked for it. His "powers" are not too much because they are not honed by proper training and neither does he have the mindset of a fighter.
That's what happens to ma without superdurability when they fight Spider-man. Even weakened Spider-man. Even when he's STILL holding back.
After getting both his legs shot, still suffering from a shoulder wound and after hours of torture.
http://img149.imageshack.us/img149/7118/28186699.png
http://img403.imageshack.us/img403/5800/34862297.png
http://s46.radikal.ru/i112/0901/9c/25c4d1edb317.jpg
after givving a lot of blood to his Aunt, fighting in a weakend state.
http://img403.imageshack.us/img403/5787/amazingspiderman542014wi9.jpg
No PIS no CIS Cap loses. Bad.
Originally posted by Mshinulol you're the one to talk about repeating childish illogical mantra. Every my claim I supported with scans and was givving new reasons every time, you on the other hand would just repeat the same thing all over again "Capwoninthebookcap woninthebook". If that's your way to end an argument once you're proven wrong im fine with that.
As for the rest of your post I did not quote, it is just repeating the same childish illogical mantra over again and deserves no further reply than has been given earlier.
Originally posted by SamZED
😂 You mean the fight where Spider-man though he was fighting some idiot in Wolverine's costume. Please. He was holding back as usual, he even holds back when he fights the green goblin, fact. Im telling you this, C-master told you this. "cooling off" means holding back even more. He shattered some bricks, that's your proof? Batman could do that, doesn't require a class 10 strength in comics.That's what happens to ma without superdurability when they fight Spider-man. Even weakened Spider-man. Even when he's STILL holding back.
After getting both his legs shot, still suffering from a shoulder wound and after hours of torture.
http://img149.imageshack.us/img149/7118/28186699.png
http://img403.imageshack.us/img403/5800/34862297.pnghttp://s46.radikal.ru/i112/0901/9c/25c4d1edb317.jpg
after givving a lot of blood to his Aunt, fighting in a weakend state.
http://img403.imageshack.us/img403/5787/amazingspiderman542014wi9.jpgNo PIS no CIS Cap loses. Bad.
Hate to break it to you but Spidey loosing does not automatically mean he is holding back or make it PIS. You seem chronically unable to accept this fact.
Originally posted by MshinuWhat im unable to accept is false statements like "Spider-man always loses to ma fighters" or "Cap won in the comics it makes him >> than the one he fought even if the one he fought didn't wanna fight at all" and yeah, THAT makes it CIS whether you like it or not. That's why I feel the need to disprove this false claims with scans, because all that does is make everyone hate the character. That's what happened to Wolverine and I dont want the same for Cap.
Hate to break it to you but Spidey loosing does not automatically mean he is holding back or make it PIS. You seem chronically unable to accept this fact.
Originally posted by SamZED
What im unable to accept is false statements like "Spider-man always loses to ma fighters" or "Cap won in the comics it makes him >> than the one he fought even if the one he fought didn't wanna fight at all" and yeah, THAT makes it CIS whether you like it or not. That's why I feel the need to disprove this false claims with scans, because all that does is make everyone hate the character. That's what happened to Wolverine and I dont want the same for Cap.
Spidey does not always loose to ma fighters, he has problems handling them and still gets wins against them.
Cap handles him easily. In part because he is an almost ridicolously good defensive fighter and the shield makes him able to take spidey`s punches.
Spidey is not a trained fighter and does not have a fighter`s mind. In short, he is still a kid. This makes him hesitate in the middle of fights, slow down when scared etc. If he is fighting at full ability these things do NOT automatically go away.
Well since the thread is about Bats and not Cap we can discuss him.. Spidey will do better against Bruce than steve but with prep there is no real contest. Bats would take down Wonderwoman and Martian Manhunder easily in that scenario.
I don`t hate Spidey, if anything I hate Batman. A fetish freak in a ridicolus costume and a rogue gallery from a toddlers sketchbook IMHO. However I can`t dismiss what he is able to do either.
Originally posted by MshinuOk lets just agree to disagree, I still believe it's Spider-man's respect for Steve that played a big role in that fight and I admit that in comics he'd most likely lose again because imo that respect would always be the case for him whenever he faces Cap. But I also believe that if he ever cuts lose there's no ma fighters without special powers that would stand a chance against him, but that's just my opinion based on Parker's random feats and showing against other ma fighters.
Spidey does not always loose to ma fighters, he has problems handling them and still gets wins against them.Cap handles him easily. In part because he is an almost ridicolously good defensive fighter and the shield makes him able to take spidey`s punches.
Spidey is not a trained fighter and does not have a fighter`s mind. In short, he is still a kid. This makes him hesitate in the middle of fights, slow down when scared etc. If he is fighting at full ability these things do NOT automatically go away.
Well since the thread is about Bats and not Cap we can discuss him.. Spidey will do better against Bruce than steve but with prep there is no real contest. Bats would take down Wonderwoman and Martian Manhunder easily in that scenario.
I don`t hate Spidey, if anything I hate Batman. A fetish freak in a ridicolous custome and a rogue gallery from a toddlers sketchbook IMHO. However I can`t dismiss what he is able to do either.
