Revan strengths

I'm showing you how what you constantly do around here feels DS. The fact that you are gettng frustrated is the beauty of the tactic, and its only strength. You run others off, so they won't argue with you anymore (a tactic i almost went with) by using your own opinion and interpretation of revan in lieu of anything factal to base your claim.

You have lost this argument. Your points are invalid. You have still yet to offer any proof of one thing that Revan learned from the tombs on Korriban, yet you call it laughable that i question it?

A true debator would respond with something you know that he learned on korriban. A true debator would point out at what point in the KOTOR game, Revan is in the tombs and learning knowledge. As i remember Revan in the tombs, it was pretty much: kill kill kill, okay, get the stuff, there is a sword, there is armor. I played the game through 3 times, and my Revan never found anything that could be called Force knowledge in the tombs. In fact, when i left the tombs, they were empty. Where the heck are you getting the idea that he got sith knowledge from the tombs? Kindly post the appropriate scene shot, or video showing him learning things in the tombs, or keep your trap shut.

I love the fact that you are still responding, still claiming that I don't have a point, when i have not been trying to make a point. I keep asking your to prove YOUR point, which you have not done, not one iota.

I don't claim to have a point DS. Try a new stupid argument.
Prove the point that you made about Revan being second only to Sidious in force knowledge, or go away.

I am purposely trolling a troll. Its like unstoppable force meets immovable object, who is going to stop responding first? Especially when both sides know EXACTLY what is going.

Originally posted by truejedi
I'm showing you how what you constantly do around here feels DS. The fact that you are gettng frustrated is the beauty of the tactic, and its only strength. You run others off, so they won't argue with you anymore (a tactic i almost went with) by using your own opinion and interpretation of revan in lieu of anything factal to base your claim.

You have lost this argument. Your points are invalid. You have still yet to offer any proof of one thing that Revan learned from the tombs on Korriban, yet you call it laughable that i question it?

A true debator would respond with something you know that he learned on korriban. A true debator would point out at what point in the KOTOR game, Revan is in the tombs and learning knowledge. As i remember Revan in the tombs, it was pretty much: kill kill kill, okay, get the stuff, there is a sword, there is armor. I played the game through 3 times, and my Revan never found anything that could be called Force knowledge in the tombs. In fact, when i left the tombs, they were empty. Where the heck are you getting the idea that he got sith knowledge from the tombs? Kindly post the appropriate scene shot, or video showing him learning things in the tombs, or keep your trap shut.

I don't claim to have a point DS. Try a new stupid argument.
Prove the point that you made about Revan being second only to Sidious in force knowledge, or go away.

I am purposely trolling a troll. Its like unstoppable force meets immovable object, who is going to stop responding first? Especially when both sides know EXACTLY what is going. [/B]

Agreed! A person who has been on the thread since the beginner and states, (I will copy word for word so I won't be called a liar) "I don't claim to have a point DS" is clearly developing a case of Alzheimer. See it makes perfect sense for people who are making a point to argue with someone who is not.

Ok ere comes a little fanboy for no reason none of this is true i dont belive it gonna see who agrees Revan is the best he has more force knowledge than anyone!!!!!

See it makes perfect sense for people who are making a point to argue with someone who is not.

This is clearly meant to be sarcastic, which is why you've failed yet again. It is quite possible for someone to point out a failure of logic (or charge someone with double standards or idiocy) without taking a definite position on the topic at hand. If you say that the derivative of X is applie pie and I say that you're wrong it does not meant that I have worked out the problem.

So, try again.

[quote]You have lost this argument.

This is a pet peeve of mine: Declaring victory seems like a weak way to go about an argument. DS, you've used this tactic, Gideon has used it, and now TJ has too. The decision of a victor is quite clearly not up to you- one engaged in debate is hardly the most objective source.

As best as I can understand it, TJ has demanded that you substantiate the learning Revan acquired on Malachor and Korriban. (Sp?) You have refused.

This is wise, since that is impossible at this point. Moreover, your point that we know Revan learned something stands- it is yet another nebulous accolade for Legend to throw up.

We know he's powerful. We know he learned from Malachor.

What we do not know is how powerful, or what he learned. This is why we don't use him in threads.

From my position the score stands like this:
DS: point for backing Revan- we know that he grew powerful from these finds
TJ: point for pointing out that the power is unquantified and unusable on KMC

DS seems to have kept his composure a little better, especially since it was TJ that invoked doing it for the lulz as an excuse. Also: the timeline confusion about when Korriban was emptied reflected poorly on his argument. It seems like his contention (that we don't know and can't use what Revan learned) was accurate, but that DS was correct on each issue as it came up.

I'm posting now in order to stem further usage of the phrase 'you're done'. It is insulting to the recipient and makes the speaker look bad. (It is a failing of both patience and ability to respond. Neither of those reflect well.)

Am I missing anything?

This is a pet peeve of mine: Declaring victory seems like a weak way to go about an argument. DS, you've used this tactic, Gideon has used it, and now TJ has too. The decision of a victor is quite clearly not up to you- one engaged in debate is hardly the most objective source.

As best as I can understand it, TJ has demanded that you substantiate the learning Revan acquired on Malachor and Korriban. (Sp?) You have refused.

This is wise, since that is impossible at this point. Moreover, your point that we know Revan learned something stands- it is yet another nebulous accolade for Legend to throw up.

We know he's powerful. We know he learned from Malachor.

From my position the score stands like this:
DS: point for backing Revan- we know that he grew powerful from these finds
TJ: point for pointing out that the power is unquantified and unusable on KMC

DS seems to have kept his composure a little better, especially since it was TJ that invoked doing it for the lulz as an excuse. Also: the timeline confusion about when Korriban was emptied reflected poorly on his argument. It seems like his contention (that we don't know and can't use what Revan learned) was accurate, but that DS was correct on each issue as it came up.

I'm posting now in order to stem further usage of the phrase 'you're done'. It is insulting to the recipient and makes the speaker look bad. (It is a failing of both patience and ability to respond. Neither of those reflect well.)

Am I missing anything? [/B]

So who's winning?

I'd say DS, simply because TJ's contention is counted as a point of common sense. We know that Revan's power is vague. Allowing a vague feat substantiate a vague powerlevel outside of a match does not seem like a problem to me.

If DS ever tries to use 'plundered Malachor and Korriban' as a feat for Revan in a combat discussion or as a validation for a comparative declaration then we'll have problems.

But he's too smart for that [now]? God I hope so.

Ahh, leave it to the likes of KMC to debate the almost undecidable.😉 You guys are brave, it is almost impossible to prove or disprove skills of a character like this.

That's been our point to the newbies for about 3 weeks now.

Most of us don't want to use Revan in a battle at all!

I don't use Revan for anything other than wet dreams.

Originally posted by Dr McBeefington
No, your point was thoroughly destroyed.

My point dwells in common sense. Yours dwells on the assumption that learning from Sith holocrons was an experience unique to Revan.

The Jedi librarians had holocrons too (Sith holocrons as well for the masters) and had a lifetime of peace and quiet to study such information at their leisure.

Originally posted by Allankles
My point dwells in common sense. Yours dwells on the assumption that learning from Sith holocrons was an experience unique to Revan.

The Jedi librarians had holocrons too (Sith holocrons as well for the masters) and had a lifetime of peace and quiet to study such information at their leisure. [/B]

Claiming that the Jedi Historians have a vast amount of knowledge just because they're librarians is stupid.

👆

One thumb up? Gay

Originally posted by Dr McBeefington
If your point dwelled from common sense, then I wouldn't have destroyed it. Claiming that the Jedi Historians have a vast amount of knowledge just because they're librarians is stupid. I believe i destroyed that logic with my analogy.

My statement was not meant to be viewed in absolutes. And your analogy was not grounded in logic, since it assumed that librarians don't gather knowledge of their own from the books they take care of.

It is certainly not a logical conclusion when discussing career librarians and even more so when referring to Jedi librarians, for whom the library is more than a career.

Originally posted by Dr McBeefington
No, they DONT. That's the point. And even if they did, you don't see anyone outside of Yoda studying the dark side to a huge extent.

The Sith order is much younger than the Jedi order, it was common practice for the Jedi masters to gleam infortmation from confiscated Sith holocrons if only to understand their enemy.

In the golden era of the Jedi this practice may conceivably have been less common, but that's besides the point, I was talking about all librarians throughout the Jedi's history.

Unlike you I don't feel there should be any special consideration afforded to Revan simply because he was studious. Many a Jedi librarian was inclined to study, hence the reason they chose to spend their lifetimes among the Jedi archives.

Originally posted by Allankles
My statement was not meant to be viewed in absolutes. And your analogy was not grounded in logic, since it assumed that librarians don't gather knowledge of their own from the books they take care of.

It is certainly not a logical conclusion when discussing career librarians and even more so when referring to Jedi librarians, for whom the library is more than a career.

The Sith order is much younger than the Jedi order, it was common practice for the Jedi masters to gleam infortmation from confiscated Sith holocrons if only to understand their enemy.

In the golden era of the Jedi this practice may conceivably have been less common, but that's besides the point, I was talking about all librarians throughout the Jedi's history.

Unlike you I don't feel there should be any special consideration afforded to Revan simply because he was studious. Many a Jedi librarian was inclined to study, hence the reason they chose to spend their lifetimes among the Jedi archives. [/B]

Originally posted by Dr McBeefington
Being studious, learning about the force grants the force user power.

Proof?

Originally posted by Dr McBeefington
My statement was absolutely logical.

Not at all. You said that all librarians do is catalogue (your statement not mine). Which is an illogical conclusion to draw, especially when discussing career librarians many of whom have a passion for books, history, archeology and other disciplines related to the gathering of information.

Originally posted by Dr McBeefington
Once again, you claimed that Jedi Librarians possibly have more knowledge, whereas I destroyed this logic by stating that librarians haven't read all the books in the library, or even half of them.

And? The number of ways you didn't destroy my statement? One, it was not an absolute (I didn't even suggest how many). I was merely making a logical conclusion, a Jedi inclined to study, that spent their life time fussing over Jedi lore and the jedi holocrons would have more knoweldge than a warlord/rebel/fledgling sith.

Originally posted by Dr McBeefington
This is irrelevant because, as Tionne stated, "we don't know much about the sith but the sith know all about us" in JvS.

And? There were Jedi throughout history called Jedi Watchmen who were quite well versed in the ways of the Sith. Jedi who knew how to use the jedi arts to stiffle and destroy the dark side. Geez man, stop looking for absolutes where there are non.

The Sith arts echo the Jedi arts since they were born of the Jedi.

Originally posted by Dr McBeefington
Of course you don't, because you just don't get it. Revan searched out the force in all of its guises. So did Sidious. So did Jacen. Being studious, learning about the force grants the force user power. So while you don't feel there should be any special consideration, you're showing that you can't debate logically or objectively.

Again, what is unique about a studious Jedi? A passion for study should have been fairly common amongst the Jedi. You don't have to become the dark lord of the Sith, hell you don't have to leave the Jedi temples to gain knowledge in the force.

The Jedi alone had a much greater knowledge base than th Sith.

Originally posted by Allankles
Not at all. You said that all librarians do is catalogue (your statement not mine). Which is an illogical conclusion to draw, especially when discussing career librarians many of whom have a passion for books, history, archeology and other disciplines related to the gathering of information.

And? The number of ways you didn't destroy my statement? One, it was not an absolute (I didn't even suggest how many). I was merely making a logical conclusion, a Jedi inclined to study, that spent their life time fussing over Jedi lore and the jedi holocrons would have more knoweldge than a warlord/rebel/fledgling sith.

And? There were Jedi throughout history called Jedi Watchmen who were quite well versed in the ways of the Sith. Jedi who knew how to use the jedi arts to stiffle and destroy the dark side. Geez man, stop looking for absolutes where there are non.

The Sith arts echo the Jedi arts since they were born of the Jedi.

Again, what is unique about a studious Jedi? A passion for study should have been fairly common amongst the Jedi. You don't have to become the dark lord of the Sith, hell you don't have to leave the Jedi temples to gain knowledge in the force.

The Jedi alone had a much greater knowledge base than th Sith. [/B]