Revan strengths

This is a pet peeve of mine: Declaring victory seems like a weak way to go about an argument. DS, you've used this tactic, Gideon has used it, and now TJ has too. The decision of a victor is quite clearly not up to you- one engaged in debate is hardly the most objective source.

As best as I can understand it, TJ has demanded that you substantiate the learning Revan acquired on Malachor and Korriban. (Sp?) You have refused.

correct, I would agree that declaring victory is a pathetic tactic. Right now I am engaged in a social experiment to see what happens when you refuse to give the last word to someone to whom the last word is the be-all and end-all of a discussion.

While DS and I were actually contributing new information to the thread, I felt like i challenged his points rather nicely, and he constantly back-pedaled and changed his story.

I would have been content to walk away, until i thought of doing what I'm doing now. I really have nothing to prove with it. I have walked away from threads before without the last word. I have admitted error in the places where I have erred. I have never seen DS do the same. I am curious to see if he is capable. His posts got weaker and weaker as we went along, till he degenerated to using the word idiot at the beginning of every single paragraph. This is DS's usual pattern. As long as he gets the last word, no matter how weak the post, in his mind, the last word justifies everything he has to say. You saw that with Gideon when Gideon had him on ignore. He just couldn't stop.

Considering i told him several pages ago that my only goal at this point is to deny him the last word, the fact that he is still posting, still trying to get that last word is very curious to me, and does nothing but strengthen what i already believed about DS's debating.

So, as offensive as it is(and to you and the others who are seeing this, i apologize) , i'm going to continue denying DS the last word until he gives up.

I intend to add nothing new to my argument, but just match him insult for insult till he quits. I don't know if it is even possible. I've never seen anyone try it with DS, and I've certainly never seen anyone succeed.

So if you don't want to read the thread, no problem, and i won't be behaving like this anywhere else, but i'm quite curious to see where this leads.

So if you will excuse me:

DS, you are yet to justify any of the claims that you have made, yet you ridicule me for not remembering what I wrote? This comes just a few posts after you deny what you had written merely hours before? If you would leave your ridiculous point stable, you might have some hope of possibly at the very least making them less ridiculous, but with your very argument seeming to be a fluid one, all I can say to you, is the best of luck, cause you are digging yourself one deep hole.

Originally posted by Dr McBeefington
I've never stated anything of the sort. YOU claimed that Jedi Librarians knew more than Revan, and I refuted that by stating that being librarians or historians doesn't make them knowledgeable. There's nothing that suggests historians or librarians study even a fraction of what they possess in their libraries.

Again how is that logical when talking about career librarians? a passion for attaing knowledge would preclude a passion for said books .

Originally posted by Dr McBeefington
Your conclusion wasn't logical at all, which is why I destroyed it. A Jedi isn't inclined to study, a historian is. If what you said was true, most Jedi would be familiar with the sith and things of the dark side. As it stands, only a handful truly understood. Try again.

You're not making much sense here. And there were Jedi who studied the dark side and its currents, they were called Jedi Watchmen. A Jedi uses the lightside to counter the dark, understanding the Sith arts doesn't translate to using them.

Originally posted by Dr McBeefington
Examples of studious Jedi/Sith: Nadd, Kun, Revan, Bane, Sidious, Jacen.
What they have in common: all top tier.
THat's what's so unique.

No, they became villains and were strong in the force. Being studious doesn't correlate to being a villain or turning to the dark side. What's difficult to understand here, that perhaps Jedi librarians were not inclined to be warriors but scholars of the force.

Originally posted by Dr McBeefington
Which means [b]NOTHING considering they had very limited knowledge on their arch enemies, whereas the sith had huge amounts of knowledge on the jedi. You're done too. [/B]

Stands to reason that the spiteful younger sibbling would be obsessed with his older brother. It suggests that the Sith were envious and hateful of the Jedi and their legitimacy to power and prestige.

That's something (not saying that I agree that DS does it, I need to look into his posts more) that I've heard alot of people do here. Not to bring up bad memories, but when I was debating the Empire vs Earth thread w/Lucien, Nai and a few others, we debated and debated until they eventually realized that Earth would win...easily. But instead of admitting defeat, they were like "oh you are bad you made a spite thread!"

...if it was a spite against Earth then why did you argue for the Empire and yell at me for supporting Earth?

"oh well we didn't realize that Earth won until later!"

...which means that you lost the argument, because you argued for the Empire and I argued for Earth, and my side won. If it was an unfair matchup, then you should've said so, but you failed to notice. I did, which means that I won, because I picked the right side.

*quotes my argument* "...that's just pathetic!"

"How?"

"um...ur....you know what? I've given up arguing with you because you're so stupid!"

Not to be a rant or anything, but what I said above is an example of extreme stubbornness.

Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall
That's something (not saying that I agree that DS does it, I need to look into his posts more) that I've heard alot of people do here. Not to bring up bad memories, but when I was debating the Empire vs Earth thread w/Lucien, Nai and a few others, we debated and debated until they eventually realized that Earth would win...easily. But instead of admitting defeat, they were like "oh you are bad you made a spite thread!"

...if it was a spite against Earth then why did you argue for the Empire and yell at me for supporting Earth?

"oh well we didn't realize that Earth won until later!"

...which means that you lost the argument, because you argued for the Empire and I argued for Earth, and my side won. If it was an unfair matchup, then you should've said so, but you failed to notice. I did, which means that I won, because I picked the right side.

*quotes my argument* "...that's just pathetic!"

"How?"

"um...ur....you know what? I've given up arguing with you because you're so stupid!"

Not to be a rant or anything, but what I said above is an example of extreme stubbornness.

Dude **** off, I said from the beginning that your thread was a spite thread and that I couldn't understand how someone would make a thread where they were sure one side would win. I've said this like 5 times.

They were arguing 'points' for the Empire because you made it so weird in the first place and then 'while being the OT' you changed stuff from the OP. If you really want to bring up that thread again, I will.

Dude **** off, we've been over this like a million times. If you're still buthurt about it then you can go back on ignore. I'm not dealing with this shit again.

Originally posted by truejedi
correct, I would agree that declaring victory is a pathetic tactic. Right now I am engaged in a social experiment to see what happens when you refuse to give the last word to someone to whom the last word is the be-all and end-all of a discussion.

While DS and I were actually contributing new information to the thread, I felt like i challenged his points rather nicely, and he constantly back-pedaled and changed his story.

I would have been content to walk away, until i thought of doing what I'm doing now. I really have nothing to prove with it. I have walked away from threads before without the last word. I have admitted error in the places where I have erred. I have never seen DS do the same. I am curious to see if he is capable. His posts got weaker and weaker as we went along, till he degenerated to using the word [b]idiot at the beginning of every single paragraph. This is DS's usual pattern. As long as he gets the last word, no matter how weak the post, in his mind, the last word justifies everything he has to say. You saw that with Gideon when Gideon had him on ignore. He just couldn't stop.

Considering i told him several pages ago that my only goal at this point is to deny him the last word, the fact that he is still posting, still trying to get that last word is very curious to me, and does nothing but strengthen what i already believed about DS's debating.

So, as offensive as it is(and to you and the others who are seeing this, i apologize) , i'm going to continue denying DS the last word until he gives up.

I intend to add nothing new to my argument, but just match him insult for insult till he quits. I don't know if it is even possible. I've never seen anyone try it with DS, and I've certainly never seen anyone succeed.

So if you don't want to read the thread, no problem, and i won't be behaving like this anywhere else, but i'm quite curious to see where this leads.

So if you will excuse me:

DS, you are yet to justify any of the claims that you have made, yet you ridicule me for not remembering what I wrote? This comes just a few posts after you deny what you had written merely hours before? If you would leave your ridiculous point stable, you might have some hope of possibly at the very least making them less ridiculous, but with your very argument seeming to be a fluid one, all I can say to you, is the best of luck, cause you are digging yourself one deep hole. [/B]

Right. As I've said before, you're done. Please try to use the "majority" to help you out here.

Originally posted by Allankles
Again how is that logical when talking about career librarians? a passion for attaing knowledge would preclude a passion for said books .

You're not making much sense here. And there were Jedi who studied the dark side and its currents, they were called Jedi Watchmen. A Jedi uses the lightside to counter the dark, understanding the Sith arts doesn't translate to using them.

No, they became villains and were strong in the force. Being studious doesn't correlate to being a villain or turning to the dark side. What's difficult to understand here, that perhaps Jedi librarians were not inclined to be warriors but scholars of the force.

Stands to reason that the spiteful younger sibbling would be obsessed with his older brother. It suggests that the Sith were envious and hateful of the Jedi and their legitimacy to power and prestige. [/B]

Dear lord, you're easier than TJ. You just start making random shit up when you don't have a leg to stand on.

Originally posted by Dr McBeefington
Right. As I've said before, you're done. Please try to use the "majority" to help you out here.

No, sir, I don't need help from anyone. My counters to your points stand unanswered. You are like a worm on a hook right now, squirming,looking for anyway off.

You have tried insults, you started this You are Done stuff. (I claim no virtue, i have made a very clear decision to follow you down this path, this once) You have tried appealing to the majority, you have tried claiming you won't back up your claims, because my challenge of them was too ridiculous. (despite never actually providing ANY evidence to show why it was ridiculous.)

Despite all this, i continue to offer you the chance to back up your claims anytime you want. The only thing i deny you is the last word, and despite telling you this in EVERY post, you still can't handle it.

Originally posted by Red Nemesis
Dude **** off, we've been over this like a million times. If you're still buthurt about it then you can go back on ignore. I'm not dealing with this shit again.

Oh you.

Originally posted by truejedi
No, sir, I don't need help from anyone. My counters to your points stand unanswered. You are like a worm on a hook right now, squirming,looking for anyway off.

You have tried insults, you started this You are Done stuff. (I claim no virtue, i have made a very clear decision to follow you down this path, this once) You have tried appealing to the majority, you have tried claiming you won't back up your claims, because my challenge of them was too ridiculous. (despite never actually providing ANY evidence to show why it was ridiculous.)

Despite all this, i continue to offer you the chance to back up your claims anytime you want. The only thing i deny you is the last word, and despite telling you this in EVERY post, you still can't handle it. [/B]

Originally posted by Dr McBeefington

Dear lord, you're easier than TJ. You just start making random shit up when you don't have a leg to stand on.

This very PHRASE is what YOU are all about. Ridiculous to try to pin this on Allankles, when this is the inner-workings of your own soul.

You haven't backed up one claim you have made yet. NOT ONE.

I mean, if it is SOOOOOO ridiculous, SOOOO Stupid, to ask how you know there was knowledge at Korriban, (and if you read back, you will see I posted it as a question, meaning you were free to answer it at any time) You should have simply posted why you knew there was knowledge at Korriban. If you had any proof of it, you would have, but... Having no leg to stand of, you went the insult route, and I admit, as RN pointed out, I lost my composure a tad, and grew pissed at you for wiggling out of supporting several of your claims in which you were screwed. Places i put you into with several posts that put the debate where i wanted it to be: On the foundation of fact,

And then you effectively ended the debate with your "You are a moron" YOu are an "idiot" You are too dumb, You are done, (more or less, you deny this was the tone of your post, and I'll quote it, i warn you, i know how to do that)
Without backing up a single thing you had said, or refuting any of my refutations of your posts.

Poor form Sexy.

Originally posted by truejedi
This very PHRASE is what YOU are all about. Ridiculous to try to pin this on Allankles, when this is the inner-workings of your own soul.

You haven't backed up one claim you have made yet. NOT ONE.

I mean, if it is SOOOOOO ridiculous, SOOOO Stupid, to ask how you know there was knowledge at Korriban, (and if you read back, you will see I posted it as a question, meaning you were free to answer it at any time) You should have simply posted why you knew there was knowledge at Korriban. If you had any proof of it, you would have, but... Having no leg to stand of, you went the insult route, and I admit, as RN pointed out, I lost my composure a tad, and grew pissed at you for wiggling out of supporting several of your claims in which you were screwed. Places i put you into with several posts that put the debate where i wanted it to be: On the foundation of fact,

And then you effectively ended the debate with your "You are a moron" YOu are an "idiot" You are too dumb, You are done, (more or less, you deny this was the tone of your post, and I'll quote it, i warn you, i know how to do that)
Without backing up a single thing you had said, or refuting any of my refutations of your posts.

Poor form Sexy.

And TJ continues with his argument of "you haven't backed up anything". That's wonderful TJ. Notice how I use insults only when I've proven my case enough to be considered the victor. Now run along before you embarrass yourself further and end up on the ignore list.

@Slash and Nemesis

Notice how you say "f*ck off" but don't actually explain how I am wrong (except for Slash, who sort of explained by saying that he thought that it was a spite from the begginning. However, that wasn't directed towards him, so I don't see why he's joining in.)? This is very annoying, and makes it impossible to debate with you.

But anyway, no hard feelings. I'd say that Revan is pretty powerful, rivaling that of Bane/Exar/etc.

Originally posted by Dr McBeefington
I've defeated your argument, as has been acknowledged by other people on this forum who are better debaters than me. You can keep crying about it or you can move on.

I haven't appealed to the majority, you have. I responded with the fact that people agree with me, especially ones that are better at star wars debating than myself.

We all agree with you that Revan had knowledge, but your arrogance in putting him second is too much to fathom.

I have. As RH said, everything i've posted is accurate and I don't need to substantiate Revan's knowledge to further my argument. But please, continue the humor.

Who the hell is RH. Simply put, if you want us to believe that what you have posted is accurate, you need to be able to back it up with evidence. This is how life works. Pardon me if you have this belief that everyone is simply going to take your word for everything for the rest of your life.

.

Originally posted by Dr McBeefington
And TJ continues with his argument of "you haven't backed up anything". That's wonderful TJ. Notice how I use insults only when I've proven my case enough to be considered the victor. Now run along before you embarrass yourself further and end up on the ignore list.

Even if i was on ignore, i'm quite convinced you would continue answering. Not responding, not getting the last word, to you, I'm now 100% convinced is tantamount to losing. I will change my assessment if you can provide me with one thread, just one, where you have walked away without the last word on a post directed at you.

In the meantime:

Every time i ask for evidence, you answer with, "I don't have to give evidence."

So... until you do... Your "I don't have to." argument is weaker than my "give me proof one."

Try harder.

Originally posted by truejedi
First, you haven't defeated my argument, it hasn't been acknowledged by anyone. Considering my argument was that you needed to substantiate your claim that Sidious was 1st, Revan second, You haven't even addressed my argument. I have seen NO ONE support your claim that Revan was second to Sidious in force knowledge. If it were true, you would quote it. You can't, because its not. Stop lying. Its pathetic.

You have, You did it in your VERY LAST PARAGRAPH!!!! Its about the 3rd time you have mentioned the vague "Other people" Is there something wrong with your short term memory. Once again, if anyone else backed up your claim that Revan is second to sidious, post it.

Who the hell is RH. Simply put, if you want us to believe that what you have posted is accurate, you need to be able to back it up with evidence. This is how life works. Pardon me if you have this belief that everyone is simply going to take your word for everything for the rest of your life.

. [/B]

Originally posted by truejedi
Even if i was on ignore, i'm quite convinced you would continue answering. Not responding, not getting the last word, to you, I'm now 100% convinced is tantamount to losing. I will change my assessment if you can provide me with one thread, just one, where you have walked away without the last word on a post directed at you.

In the meantime:

Every time i ask for evidence, you answer with, "I don't have to give evidence."

So... until you do... Your "I don't have to." argument is weaker than my "give me proof one."

Try harder.

Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall
@Slash and Nemesis

Notice how you say "f*ck off" but don't actually explain how I am wrong (except for Slash, who sort of explained by saying that he thought that it was a spite from the begginning. However, that wasn't directed towards him, so I don't see why he's joining in.)? This is very annoying, and makes it impossible to debate with you.

But anyway, no hard feelings. I'd say that Revan is pretty powerful, rivaling that of Bane/Exar/etc.

Nemesis was mimicking me, because he's just cool like that. Srsly though, let the past die.

And we all know Revan is powerful, but this thread has been entirely useless because people just keep saying Revan beat that guy and Revan looted that planet. But the problem is that we don't know how he beat those guys and what exactly he has learned.

Your ease in addressing each thread is a good point DS, this is your strength, you act like you don't care, but the thing is, with each subsequent post that you continue to answer, when i have stated and repeated that I am simply denying you the last word at this point is hurting your appearence of not caring.

You provided none of the evidence asked for. You failed to provide an example of you ever walking away from a thread. Don't worry, with any luck, and a little persistence on my side, (cause you are a stubborn one) You may someday be able to point at this thread as such an example where you walked away without the last word.

Prove your statements, (as burden of proof lies with the statement maker, which is you) or admit you can't prove it. It is very simple.

If it is really as easy as you say, you would have done it long ago.

Originally posted by truejedi
Your ease in addressing each thread is a good point DS, this is your strength, you act like you don't care, but the thing is, with each subsequent post that you continue to answer, when i have stated and repeated that I am simply denying you the last word at this point is hurting your appearence of not caring.

You provided none of the evidence asked for. You failed to provide an example of you ever walking away from a thread. Don't worry, with any luck, and a little persistence on my side, (cause you are a stubborn one) You may someday be able to point at this thread as such an example where you walked away without the last word.

Prove your statements, (as burden of proof lies with the statement maker, which is you) or admit you can't prove it. It is very simple.

If it is really as easy as you say, you would have done it long ago.

For someone claiming that someone else wants the last word, you sure do like typing right after me.