How do you obtain your comics?

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
I'll run it through with you again.

Free = No price on the item.

Stealing = Price on the item is ignored.

Do we understand that? It's nothing to do with how much or how little a person pays, but whether the item is free or with a price.

If it's stealing, it is not a free item. Why? You cannot steal free items.

Fact.

-AC

I can hand out free cookies on the street. I might have stolen them from the bakery around the corner, but to everybody on the street, they're free cookies.

Furthermore, something doesn't have to have a price to be stolen. That's ridiculous. Especially since you've been highlighting various definitions of stealing and theft whenever it suits you.

"If it's stealing, it is not a free item. Why? You cannot steal free items.

Fact."

Stealing simply means to take something that isn't rightfully yours. Which is why you've been highlighting terms like "theft of intellectual property" when they support your argument, but then hypocritically argue that "Stealing = Price on the item is ignored.". Ideas don't have a monetary price tag, so clearly it's not stolen, right?

Stealing and free are not mutually exclusive simply because you wish to define it as such.

"free
  /fri/, fre⋅er, fre⋅est, adverb, verb, freed, free⋅ing.
–adjective

11. provided without, or not subject to, a charge or payment: free parking; a free sample."

It is provided to us without a charge or payment.

Thus it's free.

It also happens to be a stolen item, but it's ludicrous to say that you couldn't give out for free to someone else something that you stole.

Originally posted by Blanket
Semantics.

Do DL's have a price on them? Also, it means costing nothing if we're really... REALLY going to argue about a word. 😂

Also, you're stealing from the industry when you DL, but you're DL'ing free comics from random sources. Which means that people are giving out comics for free, but you're still considered to be stealing from the industry... if we want to delve into AC world (which no one should).

If I said it costs nothing, would you still be arguing? Because you arguing about the use of a word is the same as me arguing about you spelling 'generalization' wrong. It's just pointless.

I love stealing free comics btw (even though I'm Canadian, and thus, not stealing at all).

It's really, REALLY not semantics. The sourced item, one way or another, comes with a price. YOU ignore this price. That does not make the item free, it makes it stolen.

You can't steal something that's free. Why is this so ridiculously impossible for you to grasp?

Originally posted by Original Smurph
We didn't steal it though. It's provided to us for free. Whether they obtained it illegally, or uploaded illegally is another matter, but it's still free for us.

I can hand out free cookies on the street. I might have stolen them from the bakery around the corner, but to everybody on the street, they're free cookies.

Furthermore, something doesn't have to have a price to be stolen. That's ridiculous. Especially since you've been highlighting various definitions of stealing and theft whenever it suits you.

It is NOT provided to you for free, it is provided to you with a price which is then ignored. Seriously, why is this so hard for you to accept? You steal, get over it. Accept it.

If something came with a price, it's not free.

Originally posted by Original Smurph
Stealing simply means to take something that isn't rightfully yours. Which is why you've been highlighting terms like "theft of intellectual property" when they support your argument, but then hypocritically argue that "Stealing = Price on the item is ignored.". Ideas don't have a monetary price tag, so clearly it's not stolen, right?

Stealing

1. To take (the property of another or others) without permission or right, esp. secretly or by force: A pickpocket stole his watch.
2. To appropriate (ideas, credit, words, etc.) without right or acknowledgment.

You are applied to both. In a tangible sense you are taking the property of others without permission. When it's provided to you, it's not done so with permission of those who created it, hence stealing.

Second definition applies to the intellectual side. Even so, ideas DO have a price, hence why people patent ideas and theories etc.

Originally posted by Original Smurph
Stealing and free are not mutually exclusive simply because you wish to define it as such.

"free
  /fri/, fre⋅er, fre⋅est, adverb, verb, freed, free⋅ing.
–adjective

11. provided without, or not subject to, a charge or payment: free parking; a free sample."

It is provided to us without a charge or payment.

Thus it's free.

It also happens to be a stolen item, but it's ludicrous to say that you couldn't give out for free to someone else something that you stole.

Again:

Stealing

1. To take (the property of another or others) without permission or right, esp. secretly or by force: A pickpocket stole his watch.

It's not your property even after you've stolen it, so it's still not free. It's ultimately a priced item or idea.

This is fact, definitive fact. Stop dodging it just because you won't admit to thieving.

-AC

Taking the property of others?

We're taking a copy of someone's comic, which they have distributed. We are not taking a copy from the store, but a pirated version that someone has scanned and uploaded.

Originally posted by Doctor-Alvis
I stole a balloon from a kid who got it for free at a carnival. And then I punched her.

Point: Alvis.

😂

So this has pretty much been turned into Stealing vs Free debate rather than "How do you obtain your comics?".

One good reason to dl comics would be hood rep<hard to earn that if your Canadian>.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
It's really, REALLY not semantics. The sourced item, one way or another, comes with a price. YOU ignore this price. That does not make the item free, it makes it stolen.

You can't steal something that's free. Why is this so ridiculously impossible for you to grasp?

How are you ignoring a price when the comic is posted on the internet for no cost free? We should argue about that sentence now. There is no ignoring prices when the price is never in the place where you get it from (internets)... LOUD SPELLING!

Why is it so ridiculously impossible for you to see that that's not even remotely close to the original point I was trying to make... even after I said it numerous times throughout my post?

Originally posted by Kris Blaze
Taking the property of others?

We're taking a copy of someone's comic, which they have distributed. We are not taking a copy from the store, but a pirated version that someone has scanned and uploaded.

...which is the stolen property of Marvel.

Originally posted by Blanket
Not semantics, right. Because I thought we were talking about DL'ing comics not costing anything... not the definition of a word.

It's not about what it costs YOU, why do you not see this? It's absurbly simple.

Originally posted by Blanket
How are you ignoring a price when the comic is posted on the internet for no cost free? We should argue about that sentence now. There is no ignoring prices when the price is never in the place where you get it from (internets)... LOUD SPELLING!

1) For the absolute last time, it's not ABOUT price. Why do you think you can get arrested for the possession of stolen goods even if you didn't steal them?

2) Where did the comic come from?

Originally posted by Blanket
Why is it so ridiculously impossible for you to see that that's not even remotely close to the original point I was trying to make... even after I said it numerous times throughout my post?

Because you're being stupid.

You are fixed on the idea that because YOU pay nothing, it's free. It's not, and I've proven why.

You are a thief, accept it.

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
It's not about what it costs YOU, why do you not see this? It's absurbly simple.

1) For the absolute last time, it's not ABOUT price. Why do you think you can get arrested for the possession of stolen goods even if you didn't steal them?

Because you completely changed the original discussion.

Also, it is about what it costs PEOPLE/ME/LARGE LETTERS, and that's why they DL. Most people aren't morally superior beings of awesome like you AC. Where even DL'ing a comic you own for scan purposes is considered wrong...

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
2) Where did the comic come from?

Since you're using the "ignoring da price", but you can't "ignore da price" when the price isn't posted with the issue.

See, semantics. 🙂

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Because you're being stupid.

You are fixed on the idea that because YOU pay nothing, it's free. It's not, and I've proven why.

Because that's the way I choose to use the damn word.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
You are a thief, accept it.

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
you're being stupid.

Originally posted by Blanket

I'm Canadian

Thats makes you dumb. 😐

Originally posted by Kris Blaze
Taking the property of others?

We're taking a copy of someone's comic, which they have distributed. We are not taking a copy from the store, but a pirated version that someone has scanned and uploaded.

Agreed.

That's a good point. It's given permission. Whether you agree with downloading or not, the up-loader intended for people to download it. It's permitted by the owner. If it were taken without the owner's permission, then it's stealing.

If the owner of a comic is the company that produce the title or the person who bought the comic has become the the problem.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
...which is the stolen property of Marvel.

Actually, it's not stolen since they've bought it. That's why it's copyright infringement. When someone hands you a copy of their legally purchased comic, you are not stealing. Even if they had stolen it, you would not be stealing.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Thats makes you dumb. 😐

Also, even joking, you're no one to talk. 😬

Originally posted by Blanket
But not a thief (which I wouldn't care about either way).

Also, even joking, you're no one to talk. 😬

Yes I am. Im just not part of the in-crowd. Back on topic. 🙄

You are wrongly using the word "owner".

Owning a comic because you bought it does not mean you own the content.

You have the right to own a comic, not distribute it. You're not distributing the comic, you're distributing the contents. Both of which you are not permitted to do.

Originally posted by Blanket
typo btw

Because you completely changed the original discussion.

Also, it is about what it costs PEOPLE/ME/LARGE LETTERS, and that's why they DL. Most people aren't morally superior beings of awesome like you AC. Where even DL'ing a comic you own for scan purposes is considered wrong...

It isn't, because you define "free" by what you pay or don't pay. That isn't how it's defined. Hence why you can get arrested for stolen good possession.

If an item is free you CANNOT steal it. It's a stolen good.

Originally posted by Blanket
It came from companies that were scanned by/for cool cats and sent to the internets where there is no price posted.

Since you're using the "ignoring da price", but you can't "ignore da price" when the price isn't posted with the issue.

It isn't posted because it's ignored, come on, keep up.

Originally posted by Blanket
See, semantics. 🙂

Oh, I thought this whole shindig started because you said people don't have an excuse to DL, and I said that they do it because it costs nothing it's free to them.

Because that's the way I choose to use the damn word.

I'm Canadian

Ahh, see, now you've just gone and thrown away any credibility you had.

You don't get to choose. It's a set word.

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
It isn't, because you define "free" by what you pay or don't pay. That isn't how it's defined. Hence why you can get arrested for stolen good possession.

If an item is free you CANNOT steal it. It's a stolen good.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
It isn't posted because it's ignored, come on, keep up.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Ahh, see, now you've just gone and thrown away any credibility you had.

You don't get to choose. It's a set word.

-AC

I do have the right to choose how to use a word... just like you apparently have a right to a 'holier than thou' composure, while seemingly ignoring the meat of my post.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri

It is NOT provided to you for free, it is provided to you with a price which is then ignored. Seriously, why is this so hard for you to accept? You steal, get over it. Accept it.

If something came with a price, it's not free.

From the legal dictionary:

Free
6 : not costing or charging anything

In this case, is didn't cost us anything.

Cost
–noun
1. the price paid to acquire, produce, accomplish, or maintain anything:

In this case, we paid nothing to acquire it.

Whether it was intended to be free is another matter. Once again, you can still steal things that lack a cost, and thus Free and Stolen are not mutually exclusive, a fact that you can't seem to grasp.

As for the point about being arrested for the possession of stolen goods, we can't be in Canada, because this is entirely legal and these don't count as stolen goods (thus, we're not thieves). Furthermore, if they find you in the possession of stolen goods, they don't charge you for theft. They charge you for possessing stolen goods. This is because you aren't a thief, you simply have acquired something that another thief has taken.

If my friend steals money from a bank, and proceeds to loan me money, it doesn't make me the person who robbed the bank, and therefore not a thief. It is still potentially illegal and unethical, but not in Canada, with respect to downloading and piracy.

I actually wouldn't care if the law and dictionary labeled me a thief. They don't, however, which undermines your "debating style" of labeling arbitrary, unfounded opinions as fact.

Free goods can be stolen from somewhere else. Doesn't mean that they're now costing or charging me anything, and are thus still free.

Thieves steal things. Possessors of stolen goods possess stolen things. Different ideas, according to the law.

Thieves are put in jail in Canada, and downloaders are not, because we're not thieves.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
It isn't, because you define "free" by what you pay or don't pay. That isn't how it's defined.

It didn't cost or charge us anything. Thus, with respect to us, it is free.

Originally posted by Blanket
Dammit, back to semantics, while ignoring the actual point... yet again.

Not semantics, facts.

Originally posted by Blanket
But not by the person DL'ing. By the uploader... and you pretty much just admitted it.

It's ignored by you also, or you'd pay.

Originally posted by Blanket
I disagree. That should debunk that... amirite?

I do have the right to choose how to use a word... just like you apparently have a right to a 'holier than thou' composure, while seemingly ignoring the meat of my post.

I don't think I'm holier than thou, pretty much debunks that.

Secondly, no, it doesn't debunk it. You can't debunk fact. In context, it's stealing, fact.

You keep coming up short. Speaking of coming up short:

Originally posted by Original Smurph
No. It was provided to the uploader with a price, which wasn't ignored. The uploader then provides it to us with no price, which defines it as free.

They do not have the right to do so. The item still has a price for those who have not paid for it, yet wish to own it. You're ignoring the price by downloading it.

Originally posted by Original Smurph
From the legal dictionary:

Free
6 : not costing or charging anything

In this case, is didn't cost us anything.

Again, you fail.

It didn't cost you anything, not because it was free, but because you ignored the price.

Originally posted by Original Smurph
Cost
–noun
1. the price paid to acquire, produce, accomplish, or maintain anything:

In this case, we paid nothing to acquire it.

Exactly, so it's theft, or intellectual/content theft.

Originally posted by Original Smurph
Whether it was intended to be free is another matter. Once again, you can still steal things that lack a cost, and thus Free and Stolen are not mutually exclusive, a fact that you can't seem to grasp.

It's not ANOTHER matter, it's precisely THIS matter.

If it's not meant to be free, it's not free. You can't steal things that lack a cost, because not all cost is monetary. Tsk tsk.

If you steal, you are ignoring a price. If you steal an idea, you're ignoring a price. A different kind of price, but a price nonetheless.

You simply cannot steal something that's free.

Originally posted by Original Smurph
As for the point about being arrested for the possession of stolen goods, we can't be in Canada, because this is entirely legal and these don't count as stolen goods (thus, we're not thieves). Furthermore, if they find you in the possession of stolen goods, they don't charge you for theft. They charge you for possessing stolen goods. This is because you aren't a thief, you simply have acquired something that another thief has taken.

That's because Canada has the very retarded law of not punishing everyone involved.

In any case, you are a thief if you partake in stealing. What about this is foreign to you?

Originally posted by Original Smurph
If my friend steals money from a bank, and proceeds to loan me money, it doesn't make me the person who robbed the bank, and therefore not a thief. It is still potentially illegal and unethical, but not in Canada, with respect to downloading and piracy.

You're still robbing someone of their own money, thus thieving.

Originally posted by Original Smurph
I actually wouldn't care if the law and dictionary labeled me a thief. They don't, however, which undermines your "debating style" of labeling arbitrary, unfounded opinions as fact.

It's not me labelling things as fact that aren't. It's you adopting the very common stance of "I'm not a thief, I just illegally download.". It's genuinely hilarious and depressing.

Originally posted by Original Smurph
Free goods can be stolen from somewhere else. Doesn't mean that they're now costing or charging me anything, and are thus still free.

What about this are you not getting?

You cannot steal FREE things. To steal something that is FREE, is not stealing.

Theft

–noun

1. The act of stealing; the wrongful taking and carrying away of the
personal goods or property of another. <---

In this case, Marvel. You are wrongully taking the property of another.

Originally posted by Original Smurph
Thieves steal things. Possessors of stolen goods possess stolen things. Different ideas, according to the law.

Theft is the appropriation of anything that isn't yours by legal possession.

Originally posted by Original Smurph
Thieves are put in jail in Canada, and downloaders are not, because we're not thieves.

You are, by definition. It's just a very silly law. Anywhere else and you'd be put in jail.

If theft is defined as the wrongful appropriation of someone else's property (You wrongfully acquiring copyrighted material), and "Thief" is defined as someone who commits theft...

Be right back.

*Does scientific experiments, draws on chalkboard*

By GOD, man! That'd make you a thief!

-AC

I download my comics. But no, that does not mean I steal them and it does not mean I get them for free.

https://subscriptions.marvel.com/v3/pages/pg_digitalcomicssubscribe.php?promo=DC-Y01

For everything else I go to the local comic shop.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Not semantics, facts.

Yes, because you're arguing about one word... again, while ignoring (possibly on purpose) the actual point.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
It's ignored by you also, or you'd pay.

*Change directions*

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
I don't think I'm holier than thou, pretty much debunks that.

Secondly, no, it doesn't debunk it. You can't debunk fact. In context, it's stealing, fact.

You keep coming up short. Speaking of coming up short:

lol, that's not even what you were talking about previously:
You - "You don't get to choose. It's a set word.
Me - "I do have the right to choose how to use a word... just like you apparently have a right to a 'holier than thou' composure, while seemingly ignoring the meat of my post."
You - "In context, it's stealing, fact."

Also, funny you tell me I'm coming up short, when you argue semantics, argue to me when I said I was arguing semantics, change minds (act like you didn't though), try to change subject, ignore, etc.

...

Jesus... worst argument ever. I'm ashamed to be part of it.