Z vs Vegeto

You seem upset that the rip-off (Goku) is simply not as cool (Nor nearly as strong, durable, or fast) as the genuine article (Superman). You also seem upset that your fanwanked Goku lifting strength number (I can't remember what it was) doesn't even nearly match up with Goku's actual stated on-panel lifting strength number (Less than forty tons with black hair).

"Waaah Toriyama doesn't draw to scale!", so then why could Vegeta actually see Porunga? Is Toriyama so incompetent that he thinks you can see something on the other side of the planet? I think not.

Oh, and Z wins.

Originally posted by NemeBro
You seem upset that the rip-off (Goku) is simply not as cool (Nor nearly as strong, durable, or fast) as the genuine article (Superman). You also seem upset that your fanwanked Goku lifting strength number (I can't remember what it was) doesn't even nearly match up with Goku's actual stated on-panel lifting strength number (Less than forty tons with black hair).

"Waaah Toriyama doesn't draw to scale!", so then why could Vegeta actually see Porunga? Is Toriyama so incompetent that he thinks you can see something on the other side of the planet? I think not.

Oh, and Z wins.

You seem upset that you still haven't disproved my calc yet, that happens to prove that Goku shits on Superman. Or the statements. Or the author approved literature.

"Waaah Every author ever has drawn everything perfectly to scale because every artist can draw singular atoms in contrast with humans!", I seem to recall dozens of instances where Superman was larger than Asteroids from panelling, and saw across the planet. Also, in that case, why could Frieza see Porunga from Guru's house, which took the others over 6 hours to fly to at hypersonic speeds? Still waiting for you to prove that Vegeta is larger than a mountain.

Oh, and Cell wins.

Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
You seem upset that you still haven't disproved my calc yet, that happens to prove that Goku shits on Superman. Or the statements. Or the author approved literature.

Which calc?

"Waaah Every author ever has drawn everything perfectly to scale because every artist can draw singular atoms in contrast with humans!", I seem to recall dozens of instances where Superman was larger than Asteroids from panelling, and saw across the planet. Also, in that case, why could Frieza see Porunga from Guru's house, which took the others over 6 hours to fly to at hypersonic speeds? Still waiting for you to prove that Vegeta is larger than a mountain.

So tell me why Vegeta could see Porunga from the other side of the planet.

Guru's house, lol?

http://www.mangahere.com/manga/dragon_ball/v20/c286/2.html
http://www.mangahere.com/manga/dragon_ball/v20/c286/3.html

Guru's house is nowhere in sight where he fought Nail, and more importantly...

http://www.mangahere.com/manga/dragon_ball/v20/c291/8.html
http://www.mangahere.com/manga/dragon_ball/v20/c291/9.html

Freeza went after Dende, he was already well on the move when Porunga was summoned and using his scouter to track the heroes. He sure as shit didn't see Porunga from Guru's house. By the time he sees Porunga, he is far away from Guru's home.

It's like you've never read Dragon Ball or something.

Oh, and Cell wins.

Goku made it to other side of planet almost instantaneously. Half the circumference of a planet. That's roughly 20,000 KM, in a second (lets say, probably quicker). Speed of light is: 1,080,000,000km/h (Wikipedia, might be wrong).

Lets use the internet's SSJ Multiplyers:

•Super Saiyan - 50x the Saiyan's normal battle power. This is the old standard which was crafted from the events of the battle with Freeza and has been repeated in a whole bunch of things since then.
•Super Saiyan 2 - 2x the "strength" of Super Saiyan, or 100x normal power.
•Super Saiyan 3 - 4x the "strength" of Super Saiyan 2, or a whopping 400x normal power.

20,000 X 50 = 1,000,000km/s

1,000,000 X 2 = 2,000,000 Km/s

2,000,000 X 4 = 4,000,000 Km/s

But SSJ2 seems much stronger then that compared to SSJ1... Dam the internet. We need to make a thread to decide how the multipliers compare, and use them as reference for all KMC threads involving Super Saiyans.

Originally posted by Dramatic Gecko
Goku made it to other side of planet almost instantaneously.

The publisher's words on the back of the volume mean nothing if it is directly contradicted by the manga. Vegeta could clearly see Porunga (The site of the fight with Freeza) from the ship Goku was in. Compare to Freeza, who can only see a vague, hazy figure in the distance, and indeed is unable to breach that distance before Porunga is gone.

Then consider Goku's words.

"It's not far".

Weird ****ing statement if the battleground was literally as far away from Goku as physically possible while still actually being on Namek.

****, this shit isn't hard.

Originally posted by NemeBro
No. 👆

The publisher's words on the back of the volume mean nothing if it is directly contradicted by the manga. Vegeta could clearly see Porunga (The site of the fight with Freeza) from the ship Goku was in. Compare to Freeza, who can only see a vague, hazy figure in the distance, and indeed is unable to breach that distance before Porunga is gone.

Then consider Goku's words.

"It's not far".

Weird ****ing statement if the battleground was literally as far away from Goku as physically possible while still actually being on Namek.

****, this shit isn't hard.

THe manga is really inconsistent in where things are. When Goku is healed it is depicted quite obviously that he is very far away, as so to add effect when he zooms there. And other times the ship is really close so that people can see Purunga. It all depends if you side with the location that supports Dbz or doesn't. Geez, some people need to get off DBZ's back, its a manga not a maths question, not everything has to add up.

Originally posted by Dramatic Gecko
THe manga is really inconsistent in where things are. When Goku is healed it is depicted quite obviously that he is very far away, as so to add effect when he zooms there. And other times the ship is really close so that people can see Purunga. It all depends if you side with the location that supports Dbz or doesn't. Geez, some people need to get off DBZ's back, its a manga not a maths question, not everything has to add up.

If nothjng is supposed to add up in that world then ppl cant say theyre faster than light or have galaxy busting attacks because that stuff can all be calculated in ours

Originally posted by Dramatic Gecko
THe manga is really inconsistent in where things are. When Goku is healed it is depicted quite obviously that he is very far away, as so to add effect when he zooms there. And other times the ship is really close so that people can see Purunga. It all depends if you side with the location that supports Dbz or doesn't. Geez, some people need to get off DBZ's back, its a manga not a maths question, not everything has to add up.

Nothing in the manga itself supports it being on the other side of the planet. Literally every piece of evidence is against it.

"It's not far." <-------- Empirical evidence.

Let me point out that Z showed up near the moon, and Tenchi rapidly appeared near him.

Or to put it another way, they're much faster than planetary distances.

There's also a fight in the Tenchi manga that starts out in Japan but cris-crosses the world in short order, including going by the Pyramids in Egypt.

Why lowball Q?

Z and Tenchi can travel interstellar distances in no time at all.

Originally posted by Dramatic Gecko
We need to make a thread to decide how the multipliers compare, and use them as reference for all KMC threads involving Super Saiyans.

Originally posted by Dramatic Gecko
THe manga is really inconsistent in where things are. When Goku is healed it is depicted quite obviously that he is very far away, as so to add effect when he zooms there. And other times the ship is really close so that people can see Purunga. It all depends if you side with the location that supports Dbz or doesn't. Geez, some people need to get off DBZ's back, its a manga not a maths question, not everything has to add up.

Originally posted by NemeBro
Why lowball Q?

Z and Tenchi can travel interstellar distances in no time at all.

I didn't remember instances where they have. But if you do remember such an instance, I believe it.

Originally posted by NemeBro
Nope. 👆

Nothing in the manga itself supports it being on the other side of the planet. Literally every piece of evidence is against it.

"It's not far." <-------- Empirical evidence.

"It's not far." was meant to be a joke. On how fast he got there. Take a dragon Ball Z character's best feat to calculate, and don't low ball them with their other feats.

Plus I never said they were FTL. We never see Vegito go all out and therefore is incalucuable. But we know he can Instant Transimission. which is faster than Z could ever go, (but not by much lol). And then speed is equalised in this thread anyway. No Dragon Ball Z is faster then Z travelling wise, except Instant Transmission.

Lets talk about strength...

I honestly think Vegito rocks Z's socks. Z doesn't have matter conversion and I think it is pretty safe to assume (seeing as though cell could vaporize a solar system) Vegito has the power to punch planets apart just like Z, and probably more.

Originally posted by Dramatic Gecko

I honestly think Vegito rocks Z's socks. Z doesn't have matter conversion and I think it is pretty safe to assume (seeing as though cell could vaporize a solar system) Vegito has the power to punch planets apart just like Z, and probably more.

There is the matter that Vegito has no way to penetrate his defenses.

If nothing else, Z can simply outlast him.

Originally posted by Dramatic Gecko
"It's not far." was meant to be a joke. On how fast he got there.

Whatever you have to tell yourself man.

I honestly think Vegito rocks Z's socks. Z doesn't have matter conversion and I think it is pretty safe to assume (seeing as though cell could vaporize a solar system) Vegito has the power to punch planets apart just like Z, and probably more.

Z took the destruction of hundreds of thousands of solar systems at base, let alone with LHW.

http://img132.imageshack.us/img132/8276/galaxyjc1.jpg

He wins.

Originally posted by NemeBro
Z took the destruction of hundreds of thousands of solar systems at base, let alone with LHW.

http://img132.imageshack.us/img132/8276/galaxyjc1.jpg

He wins.

Originally posted by Q99
There is the matter that Vegito has no way to penetrate his defenses.

If nothing else, Z can simply outlast him.

I guess. But Potarra Fusion is permanent and I thought I heard someone say his energy was never-ending, it was probably a mistake in the dub, or some crap dialogue in the background of Raging Blast. I would've like to have seen more from Vegito in the manga, because he was just toying with Buu the whole time, making this argument difficuilt to settle.

Originally posted by Astner
Eh, that was the Chousin, not Z.

Originally posted by NemeBro
Which calc?

So tell me why Vegeta could see Porunga from the other side of the planet.

Guru's house, lol?

http://www.mangahere.com/manga/dragon_ball/v20/c286/2.html
http://www.mangahere.com/manga/dragon_ball/v20/c286/3.html

Guru's house is nowhere in sight where he fought Nail, and more importantly...

http://www.mangahere.com/manga/dragon_ball/v20/c291/8.html
http://www.mangahere.com/manga/dragon_ball/v20/c291/9.html

Freeza went after Dende, he was already well on the move when Porunga was summoned and using his scouter to track the heroes. He sure as shit didn't see Porunga from Guru's house. By the time he sees Porunga, he is far away from Guru's home.

It's like you've never read Dragon Ball or something.

How so?

Any of the calcs I've posted. Like the speed one. Hell, you're still trying to argue that Vegeta was as big as a mountain, just to try and make a feasible argument to my calcs.

Ah, my bad. It's been a while since I've read that specific part.

Anyway, Porunga wasn't summoned until Frieza was half-way there, and he still saw Porunga. Again, still waiting for you to prove that Vegeta is mountain sized to support your argument.

How does Cell win? By moving hilariously faster than Z and vaporizing him with attacks that he couldn't dream of tanking. Cell said he could destroy the solar system with a kamehameha wave. In case you didn't know, kamehameha is the third most powerful technique in DBZ because it's so condensed in a such a small AOE. If Cell used the attack Frieza did on Planet Vegeta, he could easily make an AOE much larger than Z. Again though, he would simply vaporize him with an instant kamehameha.

Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
Any of the calcs I've posted. Like the speed one. Hell, you're still trying to argue that Vegeta was as big as a mountain, just to try and make a feasible argument to my calcs.

Ah, my bad. It's been a while since I've read that specific part.

Anyway, Porunga wasn't summoned until Frieza was half-way there, and he still saw Porunga. Again, still waiting for you to prove that Vegeta is mountain sized to support your argument.

How does Cell win? By moving hilariously faster than Z and vaporizing him with attacks that he couldn't dream of tanking. Cell said he could destroy the solar system with a kamehameha wave. In case you didn't know, kamehameha is the third most powerful technique in DBZ because it's so condensed in a such a small AOE. If Cell used the attack Frieza did on Planet Vegeta, he could easily make an AOE much larger than Z. Again though, he would simply vaporize him with an instant kamehameha.

Errr... Cell??? Just saying, Z punched Tenchi from Earth to Saturn (I guess thee is no gravity). I think Z would ultimately win against Cell.