Wolverine vs Thor (Yes Marvel is doing it.)

Originally posted by Doctor-Alvis
A generic set of gods that thrive on combat. Ones that would have lived for countless years. They don't even need to be gods, just long lived, youthful people. I keep referencing Thor and Hercules because they fit the bill pretty well but people seem to keep falling back on "*finger wagging wildly in the air* IN THE COMICS"

Imagine yourself and all your friends are going to live for say... ten thousand years. You'll pretty much be in your prime that entire time. And if you're not big into hand to hand stuff, you are now. You all want to be the best of your group in combat. Even if you had no previous training, don't you think you'd have something that makes you pretty sturdy against anything anyone can throw at you in hand to hand?

Maybe it's just me. I like to experiment with things. If I'm taught something I adapt it to the way I do things. If I can't get past something I figure out a way around it. I refine my methods. You'd essentially do what people did around the world over generations by yourself, with your group of similarly long lived friends. It may not be as efficient because you don't have the benefit of learning from everyone else's already established techniques but you have much longer to work on it.

I dunno, if it is just me, whichever of my less imaginative long lived friends who gets good at throwing a punch is going to be in a world of hurt when I start kicking his shins and he's stuck throwing hooks and crosses.

being ancient means nothing if you haven't done anything with that time.

Practice doesn't make perfect. perfect practice makes perfect.

If you hit a point where you don't change, then all the time after that counts for nil.

"The man who doesn't read good books has no advantage over the man who can't read them." ~ Mark Twain.

Originally posted by Creshosk
I'm going to point at the British redcoats again.

being ancient means nothing if you haven't done anything with that time.

Practice doesn't make perfect. perfect practice makes perfect.

And how do you think people improved martial arts to begin with?

Maybe it is just me. A group of Alvis-minded people who wanted to be the greatest hand to hand combatant would have a hell of a ceiling and probably go until every possibility is explored and exhausted. Constantly experimenting, constantly improving. Constantly trying to find the weaknesses in each other's abilities.

Originally posted by Doctor-Alvis
The redcoats are idiots. I think any 2 bit stand up comedian can point out the flaws in their strategy.

So simply being old is meaningless if you don't keep refining your technique.

Originally posted by Doctor-Alvis
Alright, when I typed out that scenario, asking if you and a group of your friends who, for the purposes of this scenario, wanted to be the best in combat, that that was your goal, and you had ten thousand years to do this then asked if you think you would have have a good martial art system going, I was kind of implying you'd be working at improving your combat skills the entire time, not wasting it.

And how do you think people improved martial arts to begin with?

Maybe it is just me. A group of Alvis-minded people who wanted to be the greatest hand to hand combatant would have a hell of a ceiling and probably go until every possibility is explored and exhausted. Constantly experimenting, constantly improving. Constantly trying to find the weaknesses in each other's abilities.

The asgardians are not portrayed like an ancient fighting style, otherwise they'd probably be using eastern martial arts.

So no they did not keep adapting beyond the medieval mindset.

and that "Warrior code" of theirs is probably more evidence that they were more like the redcoats than any of us.

Originally posted by Doctor-Alvis
A group of Alvis-minded people

god save us all . . . 😐

Originally posted by leonidas
god save us all . . . 😐

Originally posted by Creshosk
And yet it had been around for ages. It was a tried and true strategy for them that allowed them to win against all their other opponents.

So simply being old is meaningless if you don't keep refining your technique.

And yet they still fight with medieval fighting techniques as opposed to the fighting techniques of a culture that was absorbed and adapted that had been around for much longer than 2000 years. since as I said 14,000 BC.

The asgardians are not portrayed like an ancient fighting style, otherwise they'd probably be using eastern martial arts.

So no they did not keep adapting beyond the medieval mindset.

and that "Warrior code" of theirs is probably more evidence that they were more like the redcoats than any of us.

Originally posted by Kris Blaze
No please go on, instead of flaming.

Please explain what proof you have that Asgardians only employ Viking-styles. I'd also like to know how those Viking-styles go with all the laser cannons and advanced technology they used to have in Asgard.

You gotta love how when somebody posts something which doesnt prove his point he assumes it does. Hopeless.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
You gotta love how when somebody posts something which doesnt prove his point he assumes it does. Hopeless.

Despite there being no evidence for it since it was made up by a culture that didn't have the ancient fighting style he wants them to have.

Originally posted by Creshosk
Except that it does. He's ignoring everything I'd already posted and insisting on pushing forward with his wet dream that "Asgardians should have the most advanced fighting itn the world!

Despite there being no evidence for it since it was made up by a culture that didn't have the ancient fighting style he wants them to have.

I have a sneaking suspicion thats wasnt really his point. facepalm

I think his point was Asagardian martial arts doesnt just consist of Viking fighting methods and theres a good chance that it would be different from how the Vikings fought, because the Asagardians are very different from the Vikings. Lets hope im right this time.

Originally posted by Doctor-Alvis
The redcoats are idiots. I think any 2 bit stand up comedian can point out the flaws in their strategy.

That's a gross simplification that doesn't really support any of these arguments. They lost that war, but still won battles, and it ignores the political situation, some poor individual commanders, trying to fight a war against local rebellion thousands of miles from their own country numerous other factors etc. When the US continental army invaded Canada in 1775 the result was the other way around with the British forces winning and a major defeat for the US (interestingly the same result as the other times US forces tried to invade Canada later on).

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
I have a sneaking suspicion thats wasnt really his point. facepalm

I think his point was Asagardian martial arts doesnt just consist of Viking fighting methods and theres a good chance that it would be different from how the Vikings fought, because the Asagardians are very different from the Vikings. Lets hope im right this time.

No wonder you people think the way you do, you haven't done the research.

*sigh* You just dont listen to anybody do you?

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
I have a sneaking suspicion thats wasnt really his point. facepalm

I think his point was Asagardian martial arts doesnt just consist of Viking fighting methods and theres a good chance that it would be different from how the Vikings fought, because the Asagardians are very different from the Vikings. Lets hope im right this time.

A group of people who live for a ridiculously long time that have a hard on for fighting. Over that ridiculous amount of time, theoretically would create a very sound martial art. People like Asgards, keep in mind, everyone, that this is not about Asgards... **** it, erase that. People like Klingons. Any culture who has the "hard on for fighting" mentality usually have that kind of alpha male "I'm the best" mentality to go with it and they want to prove it. That is what would drive them to improve their hand to hand skills in this theory. I recognize the stagnation that could occur from their collective single point of view but I think that mentality and amount of time makes up for that kind of "fighter's block".

When I specifically changed the scenario to generic long lived people who like to fight to avoid confusion with Hercules or Thor and Creshosk continued to reference Asgard and Thor, I just figured he was either talking to someone else or just tryin' to grind my gears.

Originally posted by Doctor-Alvis
When I specifically changed the scenario to generic long lived people who like to fight to avoid confusion with Hercules or Thor and Creshosk continued to reference Asgard and Thor, I just figured he was either talking to someone else or just tryin' to grind my gears.

The different pantheons are also very well acquainted with eachother. They've met and fought on several occasions (against eachother or against a common enemy) and so on. It's not like the Asgardians have only fought trolls for thousands of years. They're constantly fighting odd monsters, other gods and so on and so on 🙂

Originally posted by Doctor-Alvis
If you're talking about me, they don't have to be gods. I was mostly using them as an example of the situation I'm describing.

A group of people who live for a ridiculously long time that have a hard on for fighting. Over that ridiculous amount of time, theoretically would create a very sound martial art. People like Asgards, keep in mind, everyone, that this is not about Asgards... **** it, erase that. People like Klingons. Any culture who has the "hard on for fighting" mentality usually have that kind of alpha male "I'm the best" mentality to go with it and they want to prove it. That is what would drive them to improve their hand to hand skills in this theory. I recognize the stagnation that could occur from their collective single point of view but I think that mentality and amount of time makes up for that kind of "fighter's block".

When I specifically changed the scenario to generic long lived people who like to fight to avoid confusion with Hercules or Thor and Creshosk continued to reference Asgard and Thor, I just figured he was either talking to someone else or just tryin' to grind my gears.

Nah I was refering Kris. I think what you say makes sense but in the comic world not neccesarily it just seems that characters like Cap, DD etc tend to be more skilled than characters like Hercules and Thor. Logically Thor and Hercules should be more skilled but there not. Then again godlike martial arts does seem to just consist of punching and grappling.

Cresh never listens to anybody not to sure what you guys were talking about.

Originally posted by Kris Blaze
The different pantheons are also very well acquainted with eachother. They've met and fought on several occasions (against eachother or against a common enemy) and so on. It's not like the Asgardians have only fought trolls for thousands of years. They're constantly fighting odd monsters, other gods and so on and so on 🙂

So you were arguing that Asagardian martial arts is uber? Not a bad point.....

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Nah I was refering Kris. I think what you say makes sense but in the comic world not neccesarily it just seems that characters like Cap, DD etc tend to be more skilled than characters like Hercules and Thor. Logically Thor and Hercules should be more skilled but there not. Then again godlike martial arts does seem to just consist of punching and grappling.

Cresh never listens to anybody not to sure what you guys were talking about.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
So you were arguing that Asagardian martial arts is uber? Not a bad point.....

I've reported you for trolling. Since you didn't know what we were talking about and just decided to start attacking me.

Originally posted by Creshosk
You basically agree with me and then turn around and insult me? You admittedly come into this conversation to argue with me, because you just said you don't know what we were talking about?

That was my opinion based on what Doctor-Alvis said not Kris. When I made that statement about you not getting it it was not in reference to what Alvis said.

Originally posted by Creshosk

Except that its never displayed in the comics, and goes against actual history as well. Perhaps you should READ a thread before just saying I'm wrong.

I've reported you for trolling. Since you didn't know what we were talking about and just decided to start attacking me.

Actually thats one of the points I strongly disagree with you and what you were not getting through your head. You keep bringing up this issue of history it doesnt neccesarily apply to the bloody comics. As Kris pointed out the Norse gods were very different from the human Vikings according to him they had laser canons etc.

I agree with Kris that theAsagradian martial art style is probably different from the Vikings but I dont agree that its specially uber.

Hell it seemed you actually agreed with me earlier and even agreed with some text you quoted, in fact you always assume that people are wrong. If you stop being so obnoxious I wont get on your case. 😐

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
That was my opinion based on what Doctor-Alvis said not Kris. When I made that statement about you not getting it it was not in reference to what Alvis said.

Actually thats one of the points I strongly disagree with you and what you were not getting through your head. You keep bringing up this issue of history it doesnt neccesarily apply to the bloody comics.

Alvis isn't arguing about the comics while Kris IS.

Read the thread and you'd know that. Before you trying to get anything through my head. You are trolling when you say shit like that do you realize that?

So I'm aruging against the two, forced into some quasi-quantum state where I'm arguing against the comics and against not the comcis.

History agrees with the portrayal in the comics. So its a consistent argument. unlike Yours, Kris's and Alvis's stances where you have to ignore both the comics and history in order to try and say that the Asgardians martial arts would be more developed than they are.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
As Kris pointed out the Norse gods were very different from the human Vikings according to him they had laser canons etc.

Trying to separate the two is asinine. and is exactly what I mean by ignoring history.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
I agree with Kris that theAsagradian martial art style is probably different from the Vikings but I dont agree that its specially uber.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Hell it seemed you actually agreed with me earlier and even agreed with some text you quoted, in fact you always assume that people are wrong. If you stop being so obnoxious I wont get on your case. 😐

So quit trolling me. Quit "getting on my case". Troll.

Originally posted by Creshosk
Do you realize that Alvis and Kris are not saying the same goddamned thing?

Alvis isn't arguing about the comics while Kris IS.

Read the thread and you'd know that. Before you trying to get anything through my head. You are trolling when you say shit like that do you realize that?

Yes I do bloody realise that. Which is why when I spoke abotu Kris I mentioned the marvel portrayal of the gods.

Originally posted by Creshosk

History agrees with the portrayal in the comics. So its a consistent argument. unlike Yours, Kris's and Alvis's stances where you have to ignore both the comics and history in order to try and say that the Asgardians martial arts would be more developed than they are.

And he's wrong. The Scandinavian people made a mythology that their minds of the time could comprehend. Ideals that they liked. They even said they got their fighting tactics, skills, and weaponry from the gods.

Trying to separate the two is asinine. and is exactly what I mean by ignoring history.

....and this is the point where you are failing. Its already been explained to you why comparing what happened in the real world to Marvel is faulty.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Yes I do bloody realise that. Which is why when I spoke abotu Kris I mentioned the marvel portrayal of the gods.

....and this is the point where you are failing. Its already been explained to you why comparing what happened in the real world to Marvel is faulty.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
[QUOTE=12194760]Originally posted by Creshosk
[B]You are trolling when you say shit like that do you realize that?

Originally posted by Creshosk
unlike Yours, Kris's and Alvis's stances where you have to ignore both the comics and history in order to try and say that the Asgardians martial arts would be more developed than they are.