Health Care [Merged]

Originally posted by dadudemon

On one hand, the police do nothing direclty for you.

On the other, they do by being a passive force. They also provide assurance.

Compare that to your insurance and we have the same.

See wut I mean doood?

The police passively provide security for me. That warrants my taxes to be paid to them since they're providing me a service.

Is it your argument that me paying for someone on the other side of the countries healthcare is warranted because they may SOME DAY do something for me?

Originally posted by KidRock
The police passively provide security for me.

So does insurance.

Originally posted by KidRock
That warrants my taxes to be paid to them since they're providing me a service.

So does insurance.

Originally posted by KidRock
Is it your argument that me paying for someone on the other side of the countries healthcare is warranted because they may SOME DAY do something for me?

So now you want to limit it to just he municipality? There are several municipalities in the US that have UHC.

Do I win?

😆

I just love hearing anti tax arguments from people who are in college and therefore are one way or another, typically tax exempt.

Originally posted by Darth Jello
I just love hearing anti tax arguments from people who are in college and therefore are one way or another, typically tax exempt.

I'm in college and I paid almost well over $1000 in federal taxes, for 2008. That's with two kids and a jobless wife.

If KR's single, no kids, he would pay much more, if he has a job.

Originally posted by Darth Jello
I just love hearing anti tax arguments from people who are in college and therefore are one way or another, typically tax exempt.

I'm not on welfare, never was. I found a job and despite working for a year, and being unemployed for six months, never even received a single unemployment check because state governments are hostile towards AmeriCorps.

A majority of people in college who aren't in your situation don't pay taxes because of tax credits and because they don't earn enough. I worked several jobs in college and nearly every person there marked EXEMPT on the W4.

Here's a great Health Care figure coming straight from the Congressional Budget Office from back when it was under Republican control. The figures come from reports issued in 2002 and 2004.

Reforming health care through "torte reform" (i.e. not allowing malpractice suits) the way the conservatives want would not lower malpractice insurance premiums and would lower the cost of health care by 0.04%. In other words, all Americans would save right around $12 a year. Now that's meaningful reform!!!

Originally posted by Darth Jello
I'm not on welfare, never was. I found a job and despite working for a year, and being unemployed for six months, never even received a single unemployment check because state governments are hostile towards AmeriCorps.

A majority of people in college who aren't in your situation don't pay taxes because of tax credits and because they don't earn enough. I worked several jobs in college and nearly every person there marked EXEMPT on the W4.

Here's a great Health Care figure coming straight from the Congressional Budget Office from back when it was under Republican control. The figures come from reports issued in 2002 and 2004.

Reforming health care through "torte reform" (i.e. not allowing malpractice suits) the way the conservatives want would not lower malpractice insurance premiums and would lower the cost of health care by 0.04%. In other words, all Americans would save right around $12 a year. Now that's meaningful reform!!!

In fact I don't find it weird at all that someone in college not paying taxes would speak out against them.

Originally posted by dadudemon
So does insurance.

So does insurance.

So now you want to limit it to just he municipality? There are several municipalities in the US that have UHC.

Do I win?

😆

You don't win at all since your point doesn't make any sense.

I have told you why I don't mind paying for the police and fire departments..you have yet to tell me what service some random individual is going to provide for me after i pay his healthcare bill.

Originally posted by Bardock42
I just love hearing pro-tax arguments from people who are on welfare and therefore don't pay taxes...

Lmao, win.

Actually, ever since Reagan, Welfare, unemployment benefits, and pretty much every other financial assistance to the poor is taxed at around 10% federal, 4% state. Funny since corporate welfare in the form of subsidies is tax free.

Originally posted by KidRock
You don't win at all since your point doesn't make any sense.

I have told you why I don't mind paying for the police and fire departments..you have yet to tell me what service some random individual is going to provide for me after i pay his healthcare bill.

Lmao, win.

Thanks, but dadudemon's point is that you are not paying for some dude's health care bill, similar to how you are not paying for someone else's police or fire department needs (or you do, whichever way you want to look at it), but you pay for your own health care insurance and the money gets evened out, so that you, should you be unlucky enough to get some cancer, are covered.

It is basically how an insurance works, just a rather non-discriminating one.....with monkeys in charge (hopefully well meaning monkeys)

Originally posted by Darth Jello
Actually, ever since Reagan, Welfare, unemployment benefits, and pretty much every other financial assistance to the poor is taxed at around 10% federal, 4% state. Funny since corporate welfare in the form of subsidies is tax free.

Cancer rates in the western world for men are 1:2 so "should you be so unlucky" may not exactly be correct.

Originally posted by KidRock
You don't win at all since your point doesn't make any sense.

I have told you why I don't mind paying for the police and fire departments..you have yet to tell me what service some random individual is going to provide for me after i pay his healthcare bill.

Your counter-argument was anchored by geographic size.

"Is it your argument that me paying for someone on the other side of the countries healthcare is warranted because they may SOME DAY do something for me?"

I countered that by citing that UHC can even be at the municipal level, which would satisfy your geographic restriction you listed above.

Meaning, if your argument is contributing to things outside of your local community, then you would obviously support municipal UHC. HEHE! I was more being a smartass than serious, but my point is really is valid.

And your other points about police and fire are the same exact points that one could make about HC insurance.

i think we should make poor people pay their medical bills. no money? no emergency room.

the current system is not going to work. it's about time we let nature take its course.

Originally posted by red g jacks
i think we should make poor people pay their medical bills. no money? no emergency room.

the current system is not going to work. it's about time we let nature take its course.

uh, your serious?

Somehow I don't think destroying a nations labor force is a good idea.

Well, Victorian England was a model of industry...

Originally posted by red g jacks
i think we should make poor people pay their medical bills. no money? no emergency room.

the current system is not going to work. it's about time we let nature take its course.

Of course I couldn't expect much better from the creator of masterpiece threads like:

"the next rapper to die"

Or, "possession", in which you try to prove that it's okay for you to steal shit from people as long as they don't fight back.

I never had a problem with taxes. In England, my wage after taxes was great, and allowed me to live in a nice neighbourhood in a nice apartment by myself. And I still have no problem now in Canada nor did I have one in England that my tax was paying for health care for other people.

My mother's total income is taxed at 40%. While this sounds ridiculous and extortionate, the money she gets after tax is more than sufficient for her to live comfortably, have savings, and do her thing.

Just like Darth Jello was saying, it is all about purchasing power. More tax doesn't mean you're poorer. (unless you were poor to begin with - in that case, taxation is probably way too harsh for your income, regardless of the 'fairness'. Then slap some 'health insurance' on top of that and you don't stand a chance).

Low taxes at work. My state is now around $193 million in debt. So the first cuts are health and education, specifically Medicaid. In a national system this wouldn't happen.

So I would like to present to you, the proposed budgetary measures of Governor Bill Ritter. For those who don't know, Bill Ritter is a Democrat in the Diane Feinstein style meaning he gets elected and then does everything in his power to piss off absolutely everyone regardless of politics or party affiliation.

Oh, and the weird thing is that the REPUBLICANS are the ones locally who are pushing further saving by cutting education, health, and pay benefits to the NATIONAL GUARD.
Enjoy:

-Cutting Medicare and Medicaid spending will be facilitated by reducing the hours of nursing and home care patients by half.
-Placing institutionalized mentally ill patients convicted of minor crimes into the general population of private maximum security prisons.
-Pay cuts to fire fighters and fire fighting budgets including major cuts to free extinguisher check up and recharge programs for public schools and facilities.
-Massive public primary and secondary education cuts.
-$20,000,000 in subsidies and tax breaks to United Health, Cigna, and Aetna in order to "keep prices low for consumers."
-Cutting the non-disabled medicaid and welfare roles by 20%
-$10,000,000 in subsidies to continental airlines to "keep them in Colorado" despite record profits.
-Cutting the budget of public hospitals and health facilities to the point where they would no longer be prepared in an H1N1 epidemic either for systematic vaccination or mass treatment.
-Selling 300 acres of public land to private companies for the development of new cemeteries.
-Firing up to 10% of nurses in public health facilities.
-Combining Mile High Youth Corps and Colorado Springs Youth Corps AmeriCorps low income assistance programs and then cutting their annual budget to $1.5 million (typically it was 3 mil each).
-Reducing the fine for Marijuana possession to $1.

At least they're preparing people to die....

Now would any of that be necessary with higher taxes and a federally run universal health care system?