Health Care [Merged]

Originally posted by KidRock
Firefighters and police officers in a community are paid for by community property taxes. We are also paying them for a service that helps all of us. Even if my house is not burning down, I am paying the firefighters in case the time comes when I need them them to come put it out. Police are keeping us safe just by being out on the streets and having a presence.

What service is the heroin addict, that pays no taxes, providing for the country?

Well, getting him clean prevents him from robbing you for drug money or transmitting TB or HBV to you, or passing out on your property.

Oh, and who the hell gave you the right to determine another person's worth?

Originally posted by Darth Jello
Well, getting him clean prevents him from robbing you for drug money or transmitting TB or HBV to you, or passing out on your property.

Oh, and who the hell gave you the right to determine another person's worth?

I give myself the right if it's going to be my money paying for them.

Oh, I keep forgetting that you don't believe people should have their own money. It's the governments money, we are just holding it.

Sorry for oppressing you by limiting your ability to feel more entitled and better than everyone else. You are a poster child for Alan Moore's critique of Randian individualism being a precursor to white supremacy.

Originally posted by Darth Jello
Sorry for oppressing you by limiting your ability to feel more entitled and better than everyone else.

I wonder if thinking that made Stalin or Hitler sleep better at night too.

Originally posted by KidRock
I give myself the right if it's going to be my money paying for them.

Oh, I keep forgetting that you don't believe people should have their own money. It's the governments money, we are just holding it.

So money determines person's worth? Those without any are to be judged by those with lots of it and to be decided who is worthy and who's not?

It's like you're trying to be ironic about Karl Marx's Das Kapital.

It just seems to me that what bothers conservatives most is the principle that everyone would receive the same good care instead of a worth based service of care ranging from non-existent or crappy to excellent where wealth is used to determine someone's worth.

Originally posted by Darth Jello
It just seems to me that what bothers conservatives most is the principle that everyone would receive the same good care instead of a worth based service of care ranging from non-existent or crappy to excellent where wealth is used to determine someone's worth.

Well of course!
If you had tons of shares and money invested into an exploitative system, I bet you'd defend it with all kinds of retarded excuses.
Key words to use: Socialism, Soviet Union (?), Taxes, Bill of rights...

Put these in the same sentence and you'll have everyone shitting bricks.

Originally posted by KidRock
...their money taken from them to help pay for an illegal immigrants health care.

Originally posted by KidRock
What service is the heroin addict, that pays no taxes, providing for the country?

These are clearly the only types of people who would benefit from Universal health care. Junkies and illegal immigrants.

Let's just pretend. Makes health care easier to demonize.

If the whole concept of scarcity was eliminated, i'm sure some conservatives would deliberately create some just to get back that high that you can only get from a feeling of supremacy.

Not necessarily supremacy - more power and control. Especially if you're controlling something as crucial as health care.

but that's the core of the corrupting elements of power and control. A feeling of supremacy and self-entitlement. It's the corrupting element of neoliberal individualism and how it relates right back to traditional conservatism.

Sure. I just don't think it is related to 'white supremacy', as you pointed out.
Supremacy as general, yes.

white supremacy was a direct quote form alan moore. What he meant was supremacy in general.

Funny how someone that supports Obama's "I know whats best for you, I can spend your money better then you, I can take better care of you then you can yourself" agenda is calling me the supremacist or elitist when all I wanna do is have control over myself.

Originally posted by KidRock
Funny how someone that supports Obama's "I know whats best for you, I can spend your money better then you, I can take better care of you then you can yourself" agenda is calling me the supremacist or elitist when all I wanna do is have control over myself.

Not to be the devil's advocate here, but Obama probably spend most people's money better than they could.

Just sayin'.

And, KR, it's utterly retarded to want Fire and Police and then separate it from UHC. The logic is so absurdly off. They are ridiculously the same, bro.

However, if you were smart enough, you could claim that the constitution already provides for a voluntary police force in the second amendment. Our constitution affords us a militia. A militia that can function as a police force. And, yes, that's some of the very things our nascent nation did with their militias: policed. But, nooooooo, you had to argue from the most ass-backwards way possible by saying you need police-force and firemen supplied by a socialist pooling system.

On another note, I wish soooooo bad that KR wasn't the only of his kind in these parts. I feel that these boards are far too liberal and we don't see enough of the other side.

Also, the same goes for firemen. They don't need to be mandatory. They can be completely supplied for by each municipality, voluntarily. I'm sure Bardock could do a better job at explaining how a semi-anarchists system like that could exist. He explained it to me before, and it seems plausible, if people less like KR and I existed. I'm all about my own hard earned money, BITCHES!

We do deserve healthcare. I really don't see Americans freaking the **** out and actually creating a massive voluntary system that would benefit everyone, as the libertarians and anarchists would like (which includes me), so it looks like it needs to be forced on us. Any other option will most likely fail, is untested, or is more of the same which is fail. I'm open to a forth option that works. It's not like I've made up my mind that UHC and private healthcare hybrid is the best and only option. There very well could be a forth option out there.

Here's the options:

UHC.

UHC and private healthcare hybrid.

Same system except subsidized more and a few minor regulatory changes.

Forth option not mentioned or outlined.

Anyway, libtards, conservatards. They are all retarded. There's something inbetween, like Lil B and myself. No reason to just side with one side or the other. Sit back, review each side objectively and f***ing hear each side for real. Then decide.

The British tried private fire departments. They realized it was a bad idea when they found out that adjacent houses can catch fire. It's the same with UHC (great abbreviation btw). Eventually you'll either have a disease that mutates due to bad public health with treatment being profit motivated resulting in a pandemic regardless of wealth, or desperate people either committing crimes to finance their health care or just getting fed up, overthrowing society, and seeking violent retribution against everyone they view as being even within sniffing distance of the old establishment and their families. That would be the fire in this situation.
So if you don't want to eventually die of antibiotic resistant, mutant airborne MSRA or die by crank (in the medieval sense), I would get behind UHC.

Originally posted by Darth Jello
The British tried private fire departments. They realized it was a bad idea when they found out that adjacent houses can catch fire. It's the same with UHC (great abbreviation btw). Eventually you'll either have a disease that mutates due to bad public health with treatment being profit motivated resulting in a pandemic regardless of wealth, or desperate people either committing crimes to finance their health care or just getting fed up, overthrowing society, and seeking violent retribution against everyone they view as being even within sniffing distance of the old establishment and their families. That would be the fire in this situation.
So if you don't want to eventually die of antibiotic resistant, mutant airborne MSRA or die by crank (in the medieval sense), I would get behind UHC.

I'm a tad confused.

How is universal healthcare, also called public healthcare, profit motivated? Unless it's privatized, it by default wouldn't be profit motivated.

Other than that, yes, I agree. I don't really see a better option other than a UHC-PHC hybrid. That appears to be factually proven as the best option.

UHC = Universal Healthcare

PHC = Private Healthcare.

I don't want to get lost in initialisms. lol

Originally posted by dadudemon
Not to be the devil's advocate here, but Obama probably spend most people's money better than they could.

Just sayin'.

Considering the fact that Obama's administration is going to run a trillion dollar deficit over the next 10 years I must disagree.

Originally posted by dadudemon

And, KR, it's utterly retarded to want Fire and Police and then separate it from UHC. The logic is so absurdly off. They are ridiculously the same, bro.

How? My tax dollars go to the salary of these police and fire department workers that provide a SERVICE to me. I cannot say the same for the millions of other people out there that will be covered with my tax dollars.

You're in college. I'm pretty sure YOUR TAX DOLLARS, come back to you by April 15th anyway.

Originally posted by KidRock
Considering the fact that Obama's administration is going to run a trillion dollar deficit over the next 10 years I must disagree.

Let's look at Obama's debt to income ratio and then get back to me.

Even better, look at it before he was even a senator.

AHA!

We must compare apples to apples.

Originally posted by KidRock
How? My tax dollars go to the salary of these police and fire department workers that provide a SERVICE to me. I cannot say the same for the millions of other people out there that will be covered with my tax dollars.

On one hand, the police do nothing direclty for you.

On the other, they do by being a passive force. They also provide assurance.

Compare that to your insurance and we have the same.

See wut I mean doood?