Health Care [Merged]

Originally posted by dadudemon
Your counter-argument was anchored by geographic size.

"Is it your argument that me paying for someone on the other side of the countries healthcare is warranted because they may SOME DAY do something for me?"

I countered that by citing that UHC can even be at the municipal level, which would satisfy your geographic restriction you listed above.

Meaning, if your argument is contributing to things outside of your local community, then you would obviously support municipal UHC. HEHE! I was more being a smartass than serious, but my point is really is valid.

And your other points about police and fire are the same exact points that one could make about HC insurance.

My argument is anchored on the fact that these people I am paying ACTUALLY DO SOMETHING TO GET PAID BY ME.

Originally posted by KidRock
My argument is anchored on the fact that these people I am paying ACTUALLY DO SOMETHING TO GET PAID BY ME.

Originally posted by KidRock
My argument is anchored on the fact that these people I am paying ACTUALLY DO SOMETHING TO GET PAID BY ME.

That means your point of differentiation fails completely, then.

Lemme show ya what I mean:

1. Provides for the safety of your person.

Police: Check

Fire: Check

Universal Health Care: Check.

2. Gives a sense of assurance and peace of mind for simply being there:

Police: Check

Fire: Check

UHC: Check

3. Ensures the safety of your loved ones, regardless of citizenship:

Police: Partial Check

Fire: Check

UHC: Check

4. Is considered a basic human right or necessity:

Police: Check, in some places.

Fire: Check, only in some places.

UHC: Check everywhere else except for the U.S. 😐

Finally, #5.

5. Actually does something to save lives.

Police: Check.

Fire: Check.

UHC: Check, check, check, check, etc. (Because many more lives would be saved under a UHC option. FACT.)

"Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free"

He clearly doesn't realize that police and firefighters sometimes help people other than himself.

Russia has UHC, therefore clearly it must be a bad system bent on destroying democracy and US values.

Originally posted by Darth Jello
Low taxes at work. My state is now around $193 million in debt. So the first cuts are health and education, specifically Medicaid. In a national system this wouldn't happen.

So I would like to present to you, the proposed budgetary measures of Governor Bill Ritter. For those who don't know, Bill Ritter is a Democrat in the Diane Feinstein style meaning he gets elected and then does everything in his power to piss off absolutely everyone regardless of politics or party affiliation.

Oh, and the weird thing is that the REPUBLICANS are the ones locally who are pushing further saving by cutting education, health, and pay benefits to the NATIONAL GUARD.
Enjoy:

-Cutting Medicare and Medicaid spending will be facilitated by reducing the hours of nursing and home care patients by half.
-Placing institutionalized mentally ill patients convicted of minor crimes into the general population of private maximum security prisons.
-Pay cuts to fire fighters and fire fighting budgets including major cuts to free extinguisher check up and recharge programs for public schools and facilities.
-Massive public primary and secondary education cuts.
-$20,000,000 in subsidies and tax breaks to United Health, Cigna, and Aetna in order to "keep prices low for consumers."
-Cutting the non-disabled medicaid and welfare roles by 20%
-$10,000,000 in subsidies to continental airlines to "keep them in Colorado" despite record profits.
-Cutting the budget of public hospitals and health facilities to the point where they would no longer be prepared in an H1N1 epidemic either for systematic vaccination or mass treatment.
-Selling 300 acres of public land to private companies for the development of new cemeteries.
-Firing up to 10% of nurses in public health facilities.
-Combining Mile High Youth Corps and Colorado Springs Youth Corps AmeriCorps low income assistance programs and then cutting their annual budget to $1.5 million (typically it was 3 mil each).
-Reducing the fine for Marijuana possession to $1.

At least they're preparing people to die....

Now would any of that be necessary with higher taxes and a federally run universal health care system?

Your state needs to raise taxes.

And Quit bribing/ subsidizing national conglomerates making healthy profits

The millions currently wasted on bribes can be put to more efficient use as tax rebates and grants to small and medium businesses

Much of Colorado's 133 year history was spent being run by the mob and the Klan so this is just business as usual for us.

LB, Russia's problem that completely tanked their health care system post 1980 to present other than the fact that they had a planned economy is the same as America's problem, a focus on emergency care and little emphasis on planned care. That's why they had more hospital beds than the countries' population but horrible access to doctors, crappy diagnostic equipment, and many clinics without running water. My dad can tell you stories about how instead of seeing a dentist every six months, they'd wait until you had a tooth ache and then would give you a root canal with no anesthetic and a hand-cranked drill. Just like here they'd rather have you die in an emergency room or have you go through painful and expensive chemo than go to see a doctor biannually to get blood test.

Originally posted by Darth Jello
they had...crappy diagnostic equipment,

Indeed. No one wants to be measured by a machine with pewp on it. 😘 😘 😘

I think if at least the meager public option is not passed and the health care reform is just another boon to big pharma, than this shit ass country really is beyond redemption. It's not worth saving and it's not worth living in. I'm cashing in my patriotism, spitting on this waste land, and the first chance I get, I'm renouncing my citizenship and moving somewhere more civilized. Maybe I'll move back once the inevitable happens and things do get better.

Originally posted by Darth Jello
Maybe I'll move back once the inevitable happens and things do get better.

You don't think it's time to move when a country obviously cannot be saved through democratic or peaceful means and becomes intractably oppressive and unrepresentative? When no one gives a shit in washington when a program has 79% support and they oppose it anyway? When someone would rather someone die and make a buck off it?

Dude I clipped the quote for a reason. It's the part about it inevitably getting better that's fantasy.

I am optimistic about USA. I think eventually it will get better. Maybe it will be few states lighter, but I am sure it will get back to being amongst top countries to live in.

We could try surgically removing a few of the most conservative states.

Originally posted by King Kandy
We could try surgically removing a few of the most conservative states.

That would put my state as the #1 state to be removed. We were the only state to have ALL voting districts vote red, for 2008. Only Wyoming put up a higher raw percentage number in favor of McCain, for 2008. Oklahoma is VERY full of ignorant, stupid, rabid, retarded, idiotic, moronic, voters. I am dead serious when I say there are several people I know personally who straight ticket vote, which is the stupidest most retarded way a voter could vote.

Needless to say, I work in an office where EVERYDAY, someone is complaining about Obama being socialist and that we are pushing through "evil socialist health reform."

Originally posted by dadudemon
Oklahoma is VERY full of ignorant, stupid, rabid, retarded, idiotic, moronic, voters.

Trust me, dadudamon, those voters seem to be a 'majority' in a lot of other countries/states as well for some bizarre reason.

You can excuse Wymoing because no one lives there. I guess...

Originally posted by lil bitchiness
Trust me, dadudamon, those voters seem to be a 'majority' in a lot of other countries/states as well for some bizarre reason.

Damn. You'd know better because I've lived a rather reclusive life.

And, Darth Jello, are you reading that? There's no hope even if you move out of the country. Obi Wan can't even assist you.

Originally posted by Darth Jello
You can excuse Wymoing because no one lives there. I guess...

Indeed. More people live in Oklahoma City than all of the state of Wyoming. Getting a date would be tough. *shudders and shivers*

social isolation breeds conservatism. You can't get much more isolated than a state with a total population of 800,000 and an average population density of 0.5 people per square mile

Originally posted by Darth Jello
social isolation breeds conservatism. You can't get much more isolated than a state with a total population of 800,000 and an average population density of 0.5 people per square mile

Even worse, bro. Population is 532,668, as of the 2008 estimates. And the population density is a little over 5 per square mile.

http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/56000.html