FOTJ Spoilers Thread.

Quite simply, there is zero evidence on if Shimrra or Rhea could take one another in a fight as the only fights they've had are against the same guy in...radically different circumstances.

We should NOT use Rhea's fight with Luke as a benchmark for him. As pointed out above, Luke does not begin the fight at his best and though he's recovering as it goes, there is no indication he's at his best or near it when he engages Rhea (Who is a member of the Sith Council of Lords and probably not a weakling)

Then he has to take on her and her apprentice at once and gets injured there in the process, leaving his body still tired and wounded at which point he kills her.

Even at Shimrra, Luke was noted to be exhausted from all the fighting he'd done. ...the times we have seen a full on, totally fresh Luke fight? Not many. That contributes.

Luke isn't infallible, he can be challenged and by some people he might even be beaten. But he is completely top tier and has shown so.

Originally posted by Gideon
Among the greatest, absolutely. I never denied that. LS has shown me that DS continues to harass and insult me, which is pleasantly odd, and that he's claimed "i think luke sux!"

That was never the case. I'm simply informing the rest of you that based on his showings, he's clearly not as peerless as he has been made out to be.

Originally posted by Wolverine2179
So does this mean that rhea can challegene the likes of sidious, vader and galen marek?

Lightsnake
Luke isn't infallible, he can be challenged and by some people he might even be beaten. But he is completely top tier and has shown so.

+1.

Again, Wolverine: Rhea, we can assume is rather powerful and Luke, we can assume, was not at his best.

Originally posted by Gideon
+1.

Which was never your contention.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Again, Wolverine: Rhea, we can assume is rather powerful and Luke, we can assume, was not at his best.

Thank you

Originally posted by Red Nemesis
Now that was helping.

Slash, you could learn a thing or two from him. Gideon, maybe you could talk to him? He's fighting me, and if I could just get through to him... *mutters*

It's not that he hasn't got the talent, it's his attitude! Can I count on your help?

My attitude... I have been helping more than you these few weeks without mentioning it. Aha. There. Yeh.

You really think Gideon would help you by the way?

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Again, Wolverine: Rhea, we can assume is rather powerful and Luke, we can assume, was not at his best.

We shall have to wait for the next book to see if it sheds anymore light on the matter. As of right now, we don't know.

Originally posted by Gideon
Appealing to the majority is a logical fallacy, Poppunker. It's especially ironic that you agree with DS on the issue, since the general consensus around here is that he's an idiot (not that I necessarily agree).

Single standards or none at all.

Don't use fallacies when debating me.

Edit: And no, you can't say the exact same thing about it. Luke's body was still strong enough that he could endure calling on the Force; Palpatine's could not.

Palpatine's condition was worse. Period. End of story. Until you prove otherwise, don't bring it up again.

Edit #2: See, DS? It's possible to disagree with someone without insulting their intelligence. Especially when the person whose intellect you're insulting is the one who people consider to be your leader.

Learn, my child.

to your first point ? I don't think i even understand what that means because i interpret that as appealing to the majority never happens even though it does happen.

single standards or none at all ??? forgive me for not knowing what you are talking about 'm extremely tired today.

as to palpatine and luke their conditions are different. Palpatines use of the force weakened him but It would be logical to say that's because of the nature of the darkside that weakens his physical body since that was the whole idea behind him having clones.

I'm NOT saying lukes condition in Abyss is worse than palpatines at all. Just that you look at palpatines and say it's worse than lukes where I look at it and say they are 2 different scenarios and it's up to the readers own opinion as to which one is worse. Prove to me how I am wrong about this.

and again what about dooku and his force exhaustion. You didn't answer that from my last post.(I just wanna know if i'm misunderstanding the line because it doesn't make sense to me that using the force is making him tired yet he uses the force to rejuvenate him).

@truejedi

I agreewe will have to wait and see just how good rhea is.

How are we going to see how good that whore is? Shes dead.

An argumentum ad populum (Latin: "appeal to the people"😉, in logic, is a fallacious argument that concludes a proposition to be true because many or all people believe it; it alleges, "If many believe so, it is so."

Originally posted by Wolverine2179
How are we going to see how good that whore is? Shes dead.

once again, why the hatred for rhea? She was a pretty cool character.

we can begin to figure out if she is more powerful than first thought if Vestera gives Luke or Ben a difficult time. If her apprentice is a threat, she was a greater threat.

Dittto for the Tribe. If they are competent warriors (which they should be after 5000 years of backstabbing to the the death training) It will add to Rhea's relative competency.

Originally posted by truejedi
once again, why the hatred for rhea? She was a pretty cool character.

She is literally the female and less powerful version of galen marek.

Originally posted by truejedi

we can begin to figure out if she is more powerful than first thought if Vestera gives Luke or Ben a difficult time. If her apprentice is a threat, she was a greater threat.

Was vader more threatening and powerful than marek?

Simple answer: no.

Once again attribute it to inconcistent writing and PIS.

Originally posted by truejedi

Dittto for the Tribe. If they are competent warriors (which they should be after 5000 years of backstabbing to the the death training) It will add to Rhea's relative competency.

Originally posted by Wolverine2179

Why should they be? They spend 5000 years on a single planet and never faced anybody else outside the planet.

They spent 5000 years in a cutthroat environment doing nothing but training. Those who weren't as good, were KILLED. I think that is a +, not a knock on them.

Yea and tell me that rhea was alive and training for 5000 years?

Mauls training was brutal but he would still lose to the likes of galen or many others in a force fight.

Poppunker
and again what about dooku and his force exhaustion. You didn't answer that from my last post.(I just wanna know if i'm misunderstanding the line because it doesn't make sense to me that using the force is making him tired yet he uses the force to rejuvenate him).

That's what happens. Dooku's efficient strikes are no match for a coordinated effort between Kenobi and Skywalker; he's forced to spend a great deal of his Force reserves imbuing himself with the physical strength necessary to not die when they attack him. Simply put, he's too old to deal with them strength-to-strength. When he's able to finally divide Kenobi and Skywalker, he's able to open himself up to the Force without interruption and replenish his Force reserves.

@ the rest, yes, telling me that you and DS and TJ constitute the majority is an appeal to the majority. The fact that you and DS chalk it up to PIS doesn't mean that it is the case simply because two > one. In fact, TJ has largely conceded and even LS, who has been Luke's primary champion on these boards, isn't trying to throw a spin on it. He recognizes Luke did poorly given the circumstances and what people make him out to be, and also acknowledges that he's far from infallible and that there are many characters who could conceivably challenge and defeat him.

So your majority is looking terribly like a minority now, which is why appealing to the majority is a logical fallacy. You'll never know when you lose the popular vote.

@ the rest, yes, telling me that you and DS and TJ constitute the majority is an appeal to the majority. The fact that you and DS chalk it up to PIS doesn't mean that it is the case simply because two > one. In fact, TJ has largely conceded and even LS, who has been Luke's primary champion on these boards, isn't trying to throw a spin on it. He recognizes Luke did poorly given the circumstances and what people make him out to be, and also acknowledges that he's far from infallible and that there are many characters who could conceivably challenge and defeat him.

Originally posted by Gideon

So your majority is looking terribly like a minority now, which is why appealing to the majority is a logical fallacy. You'll never know when you lose the popular vote.

Hence why i am going to argue she loses to vader, galen marek, sidious ,bane and caedus at their best(thats if any one wants to bring this up).