FOTJ Spoilers Thread.

Originally posted by Darth Truculent
Everyone keeps briginning Galen up - is it due to his power or his savage fighting style [Juyo]? Rhea would put up one hell of a fight, but probably would lose. Vestara sad to say would be butchered. After all, this kid was trained by Vader.

Back to the point, The Tribe probably is not from the Ancient Sith. The Tribe certainly doesn't have the power Naga Sadow. Nowhere in the books does it mention they have knowledge of Korriban or Lehon or Ziost. They seem more like a . . . um . . . nobility based. The Sith I've learned don't place much emphasis on luxary. And what happened to the Rule of Two? Why have the writers 'seemed' to foget it?

It's called a filler. These writers are retarded and unimaginative so what happens when a sith lord is killed? MORE SITH TO THE RESCUE!! And the rule of two is irrelevant seeing as how these sith have been stranded since the Great Hyperspace War.

So these Sith basically haven't . . . well evolved? They remain stagnant in the old ways and in the end of this series, they'll probably turn on each other. As in the words of Shaak Ti "poor boy, this Sith always betray one another."

truejedi
i don't understand Lumiya myself. How did she end up a Sith? Who was her master?

Another question: Do any of the comics let us know how long the One Sith have been hiding on Korriban? Do they predate Sidious's reign?

Lumiya was an Emperor's Hand, not Vader's secret apprentice. He turned her over to Palpatine. She is a robotic version of Mara Jade; no more and no less.

Red Nemesis
I'm not reading the books, but how is "Luke isn't that powerful" and "Luke isn't infallible" a contradiction? [I haven't followed the thread very closely, summarize it for me?]

There is no contradiction, but not for the reason you cite. The reason that there is no contradiction is because I only claimed one of those statements to be the case: "Luke isn't infallible." Either Darth Sexy's vision or reading comprehension (or both?) border on questionable since what I said was "[given the pattern of Luke performing "poorly" in combat relative to his reputation]Luke is not as powerful as people make him out to be," which is a far cry to anyone with a modicum of objectivity or sensibility from "Luke ain't that powerful harhar!!1!"

This is, in fact, one of the reasons that I blocked him. Because, apparently, in Darth Sexy's world, telling someone that Luke isn't all powerful or invincible or infallible or even the most powerful automatically means that one thinks that Luke isn't powerful at all. To call this mentality baseless and stupid would be too kind.

Another reason would be DS's persistent attacks and insults despite the fact that he apparently... agrees with me:

Me
Personally, I like to think that it would have meant that Skywalker would have simply had to exert a lot more effort to hold him, but that Caedus would ultimately have been unsuccessful.

DS
Had he prepared(hilarious notion considering he was ready for a fight) against Luke, Luke might have had to exert more energy but the outcome would have been the same.

😐

Spoiler:
After providing numerous examples of an inferior Force user frustrating the efforts, mental or physical, of a superior Force user through a prepared Force defense, (we call this precedent) DS both simultaneously agrees with me, acknowledges the possibility, all the while attacking me and disagreeing with... the precedent.

DS
And mattadom to answer your question and the argument Gideon is too ignorant to refute, it IS possible. However, Inferno indicates Jacen was preparing for a fight, so there's no kind of proof indicating Jacen could have blocked it. Unless you want to go with Gideon's "he wasn't prepared for a force technique lol."

DS, quoting the damn book
"While it was true that Luke had taken him by surprise, it was equally true that he had done so with no visible effort -- and that he was continuing to hold him with no apparent exertion."

😐

Spoiler:
DS uses the statement provided by Inferno that indicates Caedus was moving towards his desk where he had access to traps and weapons to use against Luke in order to disregard the subsequent statement from the same source (which he provided) that outright says Caedus was caught off guard.

Lastly, I'm annoyed how a certain group wants to make certain exceptions for Luke's poor performance relative to the reputation of LOLS UBER GOD MORE POWERFUL THAN YODA BY FAR!!1!, (as Truejedi eloquently stated) and blaming it on PIS. It has been a recurring theme. And the logical conclusion is that, especially given constant references throughout Legacy of the Force to the power of the Emperor and Vader, that the characters aren't designed to be truly lightyears ahead of other badasses of their and other generations. Luke was never intended to be some sort of Force god who could crush the collective might of the Sith, vice versa. Which is why I contend (and this supported by the feats) that he is no more or less the Yoda/Mace Windu of his generation. More powerful than them in certain aspects, of course, and obviously lagging behind in terms of a collective Force knowledge.

But there was a time that, around here, if LotF Luke ran the gauntlet, and was up against DE Sidious, Darth Bane, Darth Vader, Jesus, and Plo Koon, that he would defeat them with "moderate difficulty."

Spoiler:
He'd get owned.

Those days are over. LS summed it up best: Luke is certainly top tier, arguably the best we've seen, but there are numerous combatants throughout the mythos can challenge him and quite possibly defeat him. Just like Yoda. Just like Mace. Just like Palpatine. Just like Bane. And so forth.

No, he's not a god. No, he's not infallible. And no, he's not confirmed to be the best ever.

Accept it and move on.

Originally posted by Gideon

Those days are over. LS summed it up best: Luke is certainly top tier, arguably the best we've seen, but there are numerous combatants throughout the mythos can challenge him and quite possibly defeat him. Just like Yoda. Just like Mace. Just like Palpatine. Just like Bane. And so forth.

No, he's not a god. No, he's not infallible. And no, he's not confirmed to be the best ever.

Accept it and move on.

I agree completely. I don't think Luke is WAY out of the other top tiers league. Just that he is better than any of them one on one when he is at his best.

Originally posted by Gideon
There is no contradiction, but not for the reason you cite. The reason that there is no contradiction is because I only claimed one of those statements to be the case: "Luke isn't infallible." Either Darth Sexy's vision or reading comprehension (or both?) border on questionable since what I said was "[given the pattern of Luke performing "poorly" in combat relative to his reputation]Luke is not as powerful as people make him out to be," which is a far cry to anyone with a modicum of objectivity or sensibility from "Luke ain't that powerful harhar!!1!"

Logic dictates, since Caedus is obviously weaker than his uncle, that it would be more likely that he could have stopped or resisted the attack if prepared than trying to overpower his uncle's superior telekinesis and then try to keep him out.

This is, in fact, one of the reasons that I blocked him. Because, apparently, in Darth Sexy's world, telling someone that Luke isn't all powerful or invincible or infallible or even the most powerful automatically means that one thinks that Luke isn't powerful at all. To call this mentality baseless and stupid would be too kind.

Another reason would be DS's persistent attacks and insults despite the fact that he apparently... agrees with me:

😐

After providing numerous examples of an inferior Force user frustrating the efforts, mental or physical, of a superior Force user through a prepared Force defense, (we call this precedent) DS both simultaneously agrees with me, acknowledges the possibility, all the while attacking me and disagreeing with... the precedent.

DS uses the statement provided by Inferno that indicates Caedus was moving towards his desk where he had access to traps and weapons to use against Luke in order to disregard the subsequent statement from the same source (which he provided) that outright says Caedus was caught off guard.

Lastly, I'm annoyed how a certain group wants to make certain exceptions for Luke's poor performance relative to the reputation of LOLS UBER GOD MORE POWERFUL THAN YODA BY FAR!!1!, (as Truejedi eloquently stated) and blaming it on PIS. It has been a recurring theme. And the logical conclusion is that, especially given constant references throughout Legacy of the Force to the power of the Emperor and Vader, that the characters aren't designed to be truly lightyears ahead of other badasses of their and other generations. Luke was never intended to be some sort of Force god who could crush the collective might of the Sith, vice versa. Which is why I contend (and this supported by the feats) that he is no more or less the Yoda/Mace Windu of his generation. More powerful than them in certain aspects, of course, and obviously lagging behind in terms of a collective Force knowledge.

But there was a time that, around here, if LotF Luke ran the gauntlet, and was up against DE Sidious, Darth Bane, Darth Vader, Jesus, and Plo Koon, that he would defeat them with "moderate difficulty."

Those days are over. LS summed it up best: Luke is certainly top tier, arguably the best we've seen, but there are numerous combatants throughout the mythos can challenge him and quite possibly defeat him. Just like Yoda. Just like Mace. Just like Palpatine. Just like Bane. And so forth.

No, he's not a god. No, he's not infallible. And no, he's not confirmed to be the best ever.

Accept it and move on. [/B]

No he's not.. But the only one on his leve would be Palpatine, which has already been established. So if this WAS your contention, then you're just repeating what has already been stated.

Originally posted by xxxpoppunker182
I agree completely. I don't think Luke is WAY out of the other top tiers league. Just that he is better than any of them one on one when he is at his best.

I don't even know if Gideon is attempting to say this. He's dancing around the issue of Luke being the most powerful ever, or being top Tier. With his contradictions, who even knows anymore. But I don't know what you "agree" with since Gideon stated that Yoda, Mace, or Bane could possibly defeat him.

Originally posted by Dr McBeefington
I don't even know if Gideon is attempting to say this. He's dancing around the issue of Luke being the most powerful ever, or being top Tier. With his contradictions, who even knows anymore. But I don't know what you "agree" with since Gideon stated that Yoda, Mace, or Bane could possibly defeat him.

I thought he was saying that Luke is top tier and that he is still number 1 but that other people can give him a good fight which I do agree with.

Those days are over. LS summed it up best: Luke is certainly top tier, arguably the best we've seen, but there are numerous combatants throughout the mythos can challenge him and quite possibly defeat him. Just like Yoda. Just like Mace. Just like Palpatine. Just like Bane. And so forth.

No, he's not a god. No, he's not infallible. And no, he's not confirmed to be the best ever.

You figure it out lol

Originally posted by Dr McBeefington
No man, haven't you read the comics? A'sharad Hett was a bounty hunter who crash landed on Korriban and found Xoxaan's holocron. He studied for some time pretending to be a sith hoping to exact revenge on Vader and Palpatine. When he emerged he realized they were already dead and he went into the unknown regions. There he was captured by the Vong and put in the embrace of pain, which gave him a vision for a new sith order. He began the order around 28-30BBY..

Lumiya was nothing more than an Emperor's hand.

okay, thanks for the info. No, i try not to read comics. The one comic book i ever read was TFU, and it skipped things that were included in the novelization, so i was done with comics again.

So technically the tribe is closer to actually being true sith than the one sith are, would that not be correct?

yea

Out of respect, I'll happily address your subsequent posts when I get back, DS.

Originally posted by Gideon
Out of respect, I'll happily address your subsequent posts when I get back, DS.

I thought I was on ignore? In any case, you can do whatever you like, seeing as how you're trying to convince us that your position is one that we've held all along.

Originally posted by Gideon
LOLS UBER GOD MORE POWERFUL THAN YODA BY FAR!!1!, (as Truejedi eloquently stated)

Those days are over. LS summed it up best: Luke is certainly top tier, arguably the best we've seen, but there are numerous combatants throughout the mythos can challenge him and quite possibly defeat him. Just like Yoda. Just like Mace. Just like Palpatine. Just like Bane. And so forth.

I don't remember those days myself. Unless you yourself held that position? If so, to label myself the fanboy with your above misquote is hardly a defendable position.

No, he's not a god. No, he's not infallible.

U are the only one ever to refer to him as a god. Derisively, yes, but you have done it on more than one occasion. I've never heard the term applied to him with any level of sincerity on it. It is always as sattire. No one here pretends he is infallible. He is almost killed in every duel he fights.

And no, he's not confirmed to be the best ever.

by GL? no. But in feats? yes, he has more than every other character in SW. In combat, ditto, he has more impressive showings than any other character. You saying he is beatable is acceptable to every one of us, but then you always try to slip this last little bit in, and then act like everyone is misrepresenting you.

Accept it and move on.

Accept what Gideon? That Luke is powerful? That he CAN be beaten in combat? That he isn't the most powerful character to date in the mythos?

yes to the first two, but it is no different than the original position held by everyone in this argument. Not so much to the third. Every indication is given that he is the most powerful, and you will have to wax much more eloquent than you have at this point to convince anyoneotherwise.

Thank you TJ.. Maybe Gideon will get the hint now.

Originally posted by Dr McBeefington
Thank you TJ.. Maybe Gideon will get the hint now.

❌

truejedi
You have misquoted me sir, and done me a great disservice. To be taken seriously, one must not complain that someone else is misrepresenting his position, then turn around and do the exact same thing in the next paragraph.

I appreciate the advice, TJ.

Gideon
LOLS UBER GODMORE POWERFUL THAN YODA BY FAR!!1! , (as Truejedi eloquently stated)

truejedi
And i agree with Gideon on that one. Yoda is the greatest Jedi of his generation. So is Luke. The only difference (and Gideon hasn't said this isnt' true.) Is that Luke is much much more powerful than yoda.

😐

Is it, perhaps, contagious?

truejedi
I don't remember those days myself. Unless you yourself held that position? If so, to label myself the fanboy with your above misquote is hardly a defendable position.

Yes, because in order to remember a certain mentality makes one an adherent of it. Guess that makes every octogenarian in the world a Nazi.

👆

Spoiler:
Stop trying to be witty and resort to a holier-than-thou baiting game and move on.

truejedi
U are the only one ever to refer to him as a god.

Sheesh, according to DS, I'm trying to make people believe Luke is weak and according to you, I'm calling him a god. The correct answer is 'neither', but would it be too hard for the opposition to make up their collective mind?

Spoiler:
I said that Luke, at this point, should be untouchable in his era and perhaps in any era; not that he was. I explained this to you clearly before. Stop being dense.

truejedi
Derisively, yes, but you have done it on more than one occasion. I've never heard the term applied to him with any level of sincerity on it. It is always as sattire. No one here pretends he is infallible. He is almost killed in every duel he fights.

😐

And... he's the greatest ever?

truejedi
by GL? no. But in feats? yes, he has more than every other character in SW.

I was hoping you'd say that. Now prove it.

truejedi
In combat, ditto,

Gideon
I was hoping you'd say that. Now prove it.

truejedi
he has more impressive showings than any other character.

Gideon
I was hoping you'd say that. Now prove it.

truejedi
You saying he is beatable is acceptable to every one of us, but then you always try to slip this last little bit in, and then act like everyone is misrepresenting you.

I'm not the one constantly backpedaling or making unsupported assumptions.

truejedi
Accept what Gideon? That Luke is powerful? That he CAN be beaten in combat? That he isn't the most powerful character to date in the mythos?

yes to the first two, but it is no different than the original position held by everyone in this argument. Not so much to the third. Every indication is given that he is the most powerful, and you will have to wax much more eloquent than you have at this point to convince [B]anyoneotherwise. [/B]

Gideon
I was hoping you'd say that. Now prove it.

😉

Get cracking.

Originally posted by Gideon
I appreciate the advice, TJ.

😐

Is it, perhaps, contagious?
[/B]

I dunno. You show me where i misrepresented you. I think saying "Gideon hasn't said this isn't true" Is a far cry from mirepresenting you. It is stating a fact.

Yes, because in order to remember a certain mentality makes one an adherent of it. Guess that makes every octogenarian in the world a Nazi.

Well, show me one place where ANYONE actually, in all seriousness used the word "god" to describe luke, and meant it. What are you remembering exactly? Or, as you would say: Prove it.

Sheesh, according to DS, I'm trying to make people believe Luke is weak and according to you, I'm calling him a god. The correct answer is 'neither', but would it be too hard for the opposition to make up their collective mind?

Way to take my quote out of context. The: Derisively, yes. Was obviously a very important part of the comment. Misrepresentin' again.

I said that Luke, at this point, should be untouchable in his era and perhaps in any era; not that he was. I explained this to you clearly before. Stop being dense.

You act like your decision about Luke being untouchable is an unescapable link in the argument about his superiority. You explaining it to me before did nothing to convince me that it was true.

And... he's the greatest ever?

Yes.

I was hoping you'd say that. Now prove it.

I'm not the one constantly backpedaling or making unsupported assumptions.

and I am? I used an illogical argument to support PIS and then dropped it 5 minutes later, and that makes me "constantly backpedaling and making unsupported assumptions? try again.

Sheesh, according to DS, I'm trying to make people believe Luke is weak and according to you, I'm calling him a god. The correct answer is 'neither', but would it be too hard for the opposition to make up their collective mind?

You contradicted yourself involving Luke vs. Jacen. You ignored the facts and the analogies. Your original argument was that "Luke just isn't that great". Later on you back peddled and claimed Luke was still top tier and/or the Mace/Yoda of his generation. How can one not be all that great and still be top tier? Which one is it? Then you quoted lightsnake for saying something that is GENERALLY ACCEPTED ON THIS FORUM AND HAS BEEN FOR SOME TIME.

Sheesh. Freshmen.

DS, I'm getting on MSN. Join me there. I have about twenty minutes before I have to leave, might as well make this quick.