Germany was held by three different countries after the Soviets invaded it.
Hell, there was basically a political war between three world powers in the middle of Germany until the walls were brought down and the armies came out of Germany.
You don't see Germany starving their wives, though, no?
Not to mention the fact that if you would visit Germany now it's in excellent shape. Something I can't really say for Afghanistan.
Originally posted by SpidervladWe got some pretty good reconstructionary help though. And our previous "badness" wasn't based in some deep founded and continued spiritual belief.
Germany was held by three different countries after the Soviets invaded it.Hell, there was basically a political war between three world powers in the middle of Germany until the walls were brought down and the armies came out of Germany.
You don't see Germany starving their wives, though, no?
Not to mention the fact that if you would visit Germany now it's in excellent shape. Something I can't really say for Afghanistan.
Germany is pretty awesome though.
Originally posted by ~:Mr.Anderson:~
no, early sixth century was when it was founded. The middle east had in contact with the west.
Originally posted by ~:Mr.Anderson:~
i did.
http://www.islamicity.com/QuranSearch/
Originally posted by ~:Mr.Anderson:~
The christian bible doesn't endorse the treatment of women as property.
Originally posted by ~:Mr.Anderson:~
slight typ-o. I was tired last night.
Originally posted by ~:Mr.Anderson:~
done and done.
Originally posted by Spidervlad
Germany was held by three different countries after the Soviets invaded it.Hell, there was basically a political war between three world powers in the middle of Germany until the walls were brought down and the armies came out of Germany.
You don't see Germany starving their wives, though, no?
Not to mention the fact that if you would visit Germany now it's in excellent shape. Something I can't really say for Afghanistan.
Germany was also one of the most industrialized nations on the planet post ww2
After ww1 might be a better example, as the currency tanked and gross militarization and racism seemed the only solution.
Afghanistan has never had anyone spend the money necessary to even build the initial infrastructure, as it has been a victim of "The Great Game" for centuries, where its land has been a battleground for major powers who want it for various reasons, most recently an oil pipe line (this is all pre-911 though).
Originally posted by King Kandy
I suppose that is technically true since it used to be controlled by Rome, but in no way does that give the west credit for Islam. At the time when Mohammed created Islam the Bedouin clans he was part of were quite isolated from europe.
No you didn't. You posted a page that used it's own translation that was proven to be invalid by others in this thread. In the future I would like you to use the following service that allows you to easily search through multiple accepted translations and compare them.
[272] then let him who watches over his interests dictate equitably. And call upon two of your men to act as witnesses; and if two men are not available, then a man and two women from among such as are acceptable to you as witnesses, so that if one of them should make a mistake, the other could remind her. [273]
4:15 (Asad) AND AS FOR those of your women who become guilty of immoral conduct, call upon four from among you who have witnessed their guilt; and if these bear witness thereto, confine the guilty women [12] to their houses until death takes them away or God opens for them a way [through repentance].
from this source: http://quranicteachings.co.uk/women.htm
# 4:34 (Asad) MEN SHALL take full care of women with the bounties which God has bestowed more abundantly on the former than on the latter, [42] and with what they may spend out of their possessions. And the right_eous women are the truly devout ones, who guard the intimacy which God has [ordained to be] guar_ded. [43] And as for those women whose ill-will [44] you have reason to fear, admonish them [first]; then leave them alone in bed; then beat them; [45] and if thereupon they pay you heed, do not seek to harm them. Behold, God is indeed most high, great!
24/31 And say to the believing women that they cast down their looks and guard their chastity and do not display their ornaments except what appears thereof, and let them spread their head-coverings over their bosoms, and not display their ornaments except to their husbands or their fathers, or the fathers of their husbands, or their sons, or the sons of their husbands, or their brothers, or their brothers' sons, or their sisters' sons, or their women, or those whom their right hands possess, or the male servants not having any desire or need (of women), or the children who have not attained knowledge of what is hidden of women; and let them not strike their feet so that what they hide of their ornaments may be known; and turn to Allah all of you, O believers! So that you may be successful.
Coolio. Neither does the quran and at any rate this has zero to do with you claiming the quran is young and is just a pathetic attempt to escape the fact that you were wrong when you claimed it was very young.
How about when you said afghanistan was an "Iraqi nation"? Or when you said the "Muslim nation" is at jihad with us when there isn't even a recognized one.
done. they are still rather incriminating.
Yeah you can pick and choose from weird translations, but i'd rather you search through the numerous ones I provide a service for.
Originally posted by dadudemonmaybe. I'm not sure. Altruism, of course, would not entirely cease to exist, but undoubtedly christians are the founders of most of the largest charities. Goodwill, salvation army, and red cross were all formed by christians. America also has a large part of its creation thanks to the christian people.
Altruism would not cease to exist.I think you missed the point of my post, bro.
I wonder if any good things would disappear if the muslims ceased to exist, however. I can't think of any.
Originally posted by ~:Mr.Anderson:~
that's not the point. The point is, you said that muslims treated women well before western influence. they didn't exist before western influence.
Originally posted by ~:Mr.Anderson:~
from your source:oh, heres one saying that a woman who has done something immoral will be locked in her house until she starves to death! isn't that nice?
Originally posted by ~:Mr.Anderson:~
oh, and heres one (from your source) that describes the way men should take care of women who's ill will YOU HAVE REASON TO FEAR.
Originally posted by ~:Mr.Anderson:~
from this source: http://quranicteachings.co.uk/women.htm
the burkha:
This is what that passage describes (a head scarf). And this is a rather large version at that:
THIS is a Burka:
They are not the same thing at all. Burkas were not invented when Mohammod was around and most muslims agree they are not quranic dress.
Originally posted by ~:Mr.Anderson:~
it is young, very young. sixth century as opposed to 0AD
Originally posted by ~:Mr.Anderson:~
The first one was a slip because i was quite tired. The muslim nation is at jiihad with us, unless they ended it.
Originally posted by ~:Mr.Anderson:~
done. they are still rather incriminating.