No, I never said that you HAVE to answer to this topic, but why go on this topic and talk about completely off topic stuff? If you want to debate about this topic, then debate about it, or otherwise just go to the Battle Bar or the OT forum.
Now please, if you're interested enough about this topic to post in it, then can you please (or at least True Jedi) respond to my rebuttal?
Hewhoknowsall, i'll answer your whole post later, but do find me a source telling me what percentage of the CIS was regular battle droids? Pls. and thank you! otherwise i'm going to say super battle droids and other droids took up a substantially huge portion of the CIS.
Second, even if he gets up everyday and kills battle droids until time to go to sleep, and finally dies of old age 50 years later, is that really losing?
Originally posted by truejedihey... don't mock my insecurity!
Red letters don't intimidate me!!!!(apparently they do intimidate knightfall)
😎
originally by Red: Not you Knightfa11, TJ! (You were reasonably correct?)TJ, you are a stoopidface rite now.
yes... i do prevail... within reason, of course...
Originally posted by truejedi
Hewhoknowsall, i'll answer your whole post later, but do find me a source telling me what percentage of the CIS was regular battle droids? Pls. and thank you! otherwise i'm going to say super battle droids and other droids took up a substantially huge portion of the CIS.Second, even if he gets up everyday and kills battle droids until time to go to sleep, and finally dies of old age 50 years later, is that really losing?
I don't have an official source for it, but in more or less every single battle at least half of the CIS forces are battle droids. This also makes sense since they're very cheap.
"losing" in that he dies, but yeah he would be beating them. Still however, can he really cloak for that long? And eventually some stray shot would hit him.
And oh yeah, can you please respond to my other post before/along with this one?
Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall
Since battle droids make up the majority of the droid forces of the CIS, that's still almost a quadrillion battle droids he's facing. Do you realize how big a quadrillion is? A quadrillion ANTS would be able to beat Luke...well, maybe not, but a quadrillion dogs certainly could. Even if Luke were to kill 20 battle droids every second and all of the droids were to stand there and do nothing, it would still take countless LIFETIMES for him to kill all almost quadrillion battle droids.And almost a quadrillion battle droids >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the 501st legion. It would require for each 501st trooper to kill about 100 billion battle droids.
See above. It would take countless lifetimes for him to succeed.
By hide it mean hide and launch hit and run attacks. And assuming that we don't put on any time-constraints, the jedi could very well win by hiding. The 501st just wait for the jedi. Eventually, the clones would die first due to their growth acceleration and inability to produce offspring due to them being all male. It sounds silly I know, but it works.
Dude the 501st aren't heartless monsters, they simply obey orders. It has been stated that clones were trained to be polite, so unless if Vader or someone is commanding them they won't do that, nor would the jedi fall for it.
And the numbers aren't as lopsided as you think. Each jedi would have to take about 50 troops, but it doesn't have to be all at once. I could imagine them leading the clones into a city, and then using the force to collapse the (very big) skyscrapers, thus killing hundreds, maybe even thousands of clones at once.
A quadrillion? What's your source for this?
The total amount of units for the GAR is only 5 million. The ratio of clones to droids is astronomical. How could they have won any battles with such impossible odds?
Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall
Since battle droids make up the majority of the droid forces of the CIS, that's still almost a quadrillion battle droids he's facing. Do you realize how big a quadrillion is? A quadrillion ANTS would be able to beat Luke...well, maybe not, but a quadrillion dogs certainly could. Even if Luke were to kill 20 battle droids every second and all of the droids were to stand there and do nothing, it would still take countless LIFETIMES for him to kill all almost quadrillion battle droids.
We are talking extreme victory conditions. I merely don't think Luke is going to die in this situation. If nothing else, he can do the thing where he changes his face, and the droids, trying to target luke, won't know who he is.
And almost a quadrillion battle droids >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the 501st legion. It would require for each 501st trooper to kill about 100 billion battle droids.
See above. It would take countless lifetimes for him to succeed.
That's fine. but in my hostage scenario, the jedi will be forced to make a move.
By hide it mean hide and launch hit and run attacks. And assuming that we don't put on any time-constraints, the jedi could very well win by hiding. The 501st just wait for the jedi. Eventually, the clones would die first due to their growth acceleration and inability to produce offspring due to them being all male. It sounds silly I know, but it works.
Dude the 501st aren't heartless monsters, they simply obey orders. It has been stated that clones were trained to be polite, so unless if Vader or someone is commanding them they won't do that, nor would the jedi fall for it.
And it wouldn't be a matter of the Jedi falling for it. They would have no choice. The sooner they attack, the less native populous dies, even if the jedi are wiped out. They are Jedi. They would know its a trap, and they would be forced to do it anyway.
QUOTE]
And the numbers aren't as lopsided as you think. Each jedi would have to take about 50 troops, but it doesn't have to be all at once. I could imagine them leading the clones into a city, and then using the force to collapse the (very big) skyscrapers, thus killing hundreds, maybe even thousands of clones at once. [/QUOTE]
Sounds nice, but generally in the vs. thread, we deal with fights, not run and hide scenarios. Running and hiding is a different matter entirely. If it was the Jedi hunting clones, the Jedi would be dying. So the Jedi run and hide, i repeat,the clones park in a freaking field where they have a tactical advantage and wait. They aren't stupid. So the Jedi decide not to come to them, they kill people till they do. Jedi try to save them, they die, the end.
Its not logical. force users are said to move faster than the eye can see. I own a .12 guage and am an avid trapshooter, so I'd say I am moderately proficient in the use of a shotgun, btw, so i'm not pulling this stuff out of my butt. I also play airsoft with some buddies from the army and so I am pretty knowledgeable about what a trained militant is capable of.
Within reasonable distance, which is about a couple of hundred feet for a tight grouping with a full choke and buckshot, I don't know if you could get an accurate shot off at a "blur moving almost faster than the naked eye can see" before it has either used telekenesis to disarm you or has gotten close enough to slash your arm off.
A grenade also has a three second delay between the time you pull the pin and the time it explodes, unless we are talking about thermal dets, in which case I haven't the foggiest.
I would say that no matter how good you are, in a mid-range cqb terrain like a jedi temple, a fast moving blur with telekenesis is definitely getting the better of you.
Originally posted by ~:Mr.Anderson:~
Its not logical. force users are said to move faster than the eye can see. I own a .12 guage and am an avid trapshooter, so I'd say I am moderately proficient in the use of a shotgun, btw, so i'm not pulling this stuff out of my butt. I also play airsoft with some buddies from the army and so I am pretty knowledgeable about what a trained militant is capable of.Within reasonable distance, which is about a couple of hundred feet for a tight grouping with a full choke and buckshot, I don't know if you could get an accurate shot off at a "blur moving almost faster than the naked eye can see" before it has either used telekenesis to disarm you or has gotten close enough to slash your arm off.
A grenade also has a three second delay between the time you pull the pin and the time it explodes, unless we are talking about thermal dets, in which case I haven't the foggiest.
I would say that no matter how good you are, in a mid-range cqb terrain like a jedi temple, a fast moving blur with telekenesis is definitely getting the better of you.
most jedi dont move faster then the eye can see. so yeah thats pretty much the end of that. 😐
in fact that reason why luke is considered to be so badass in DE is because he was "moving faster then the eye could see", essentially just a blur. that was considered soemthing highly impresive for jedi because their physical bodies dont tend to move that fast.
And I think if killing a jedi was as easy as developing a spreadshot weapon, in the tens of millenia in the star wars universe in which they had superior technology to our shotgun, someone would have thought of it.
they did. hence why two jedi masters were killed with no hope of survival despite them trying to defend themselves, by a couple of battledroids armed with shotguns.
Originally posted by Ms.Marvel
most jedi dont move faster then the eye can see. so yeah thats pretty much the end of that. 😐they did. hence why two jedi masters were killed with no hope of survival despite them trying to defend themselves, by a couple of battledroids armed with shotguns.
Ms. Marvel, would you PLEASE get that quote before continuing to use that? The fight was not nearly as simple cut and dried Jedi slaughter as you are making it out to be. Ventress was involved, and she did more than take the killing stroke against the male jedi master. They fought an entire duel, he almost goes to the dark side and does not, remember? Luke skwalker used the force to knock the Vong's flechette weapons into the wall. (remembered in LOTF, i believe Fury)
But i am interested in the source if you ever find a way of posting it.
Originally posted by truejedi
Ms. Marvel, would you PLEASE get that quote before continuing to use that? The fight was not nearly as simple cut and dried Jedi slaughter as you are making it out to be. Ventress was involved, and she did more than take the killing stroke against the male jedi master. They fought an entire duel, he almost goes to the dark side and does not, remember? Luke skwalker used the force to knock the Vong's flechette weapons into the wall. (remembered in LOTF, i believe Fury)But i am interested in the source if you ever find a way of posting it.
im going to try to illegallypurchase and download the ebook. its starting to bug me too.
EDIT-
i found a torrent that has over 50 starwars novels in it... including DR. hopefully ill have the fight for you by tomorrow at the most.
ill pm you if you want.
and i got the battle by the way:
"Time was slowing down for Maks Leem. She was bleeding from dozens of little cuts from the assassin droids' flechette sprayers. No one injury that severe, but she had to parry the razor flakes headed for her eyes first, and a few of the others seemed to nick her with every new spray of blades. She was a moving target now, no longer stunned by the hard-sound throwers, but the flechette launchers were a well-chosen weapon—impossible to parry completely, difficult to wholly escape. The flechettes themselves were light enough that the droids didn't have to worry about their own crossfire at all; the tiny razors tinged and pattered off their transparisteel exoskeletons, leaving nothing but a few minor nicks. For flesh and blood, the danger was considerably greater. Sooner or later, if Maks got unlucky, one of the sprays would catch the tendons behind her knees, or ankles, and then the situation would become very bad."
...
Maks Leem lay gasping on the spaceport concourse, bleeding from a hundred cuts. Her lightsaber lay where she had dropped it when the last flechette pulse had turned her sword hand into chopped meat. Two assassin droids were left of the six that had been assigned to take out her and Jai Maruk. Traveling incognito through the spaceport, she and Jai hadn't been carrying any weapons that could fire at range, and their opponents took full advantage of
this fact. Stupid battle droids would press the attack with any available weapon; these super assassin droids had stayed maddeningly out of range, quite content to shoot from a distance."
so there you have it. ventress wasnt even in the room nor was yoda or the padawans. there were no real distractions just two jedi masters vs. six droids.
however, heres a +1 for the opposite end of the argument.
"The droid whose blast had finally brought her down threw aside the
_jump-shuttle pilot it had been using as a shield and approached to within five meters. No closer, of course. Blood dripped between the Gran's three eyes as she looked at her lightsaber. Not sure what point there would be pulling it to her with the Force. She'd have to fight left-handed, and the merciless droid would stay far away anyhow, waiting for time and numbers to tell. "You will be disassembled," it remarked, raising its blaster. "I know," Maks said. "But not by you." And she used the Force to make two quick tweaks in succession: the first, the hard one, crimping the barrel of his blaster. That was difficult: but once the metal squeezed shut, pulling the weapon's trigger and holding it down was child's play. The blaster blew up, taking the droid's hand with it and knocking it on its
back. Then she did the same thing to the heavy-caliber blaster built into its shoulder. That one blew its chest open, sending gobbets of hot metal rocketing through the concourse."
only problem with that is note that the jedi werent fast enough to do that before the droids managed to pull their triggers and shoot them. crimping the gun and all that jazz requires concentration whereas simply pulling the trigger doesnt. the jedi were only able to use their force abilities to defend themselves because there was a lull in the battle; the droid pulled a darth maul and gave them an opening. if hed kept his diatance and just shot them they would have both been dead.
well, it was 6 on 2, not 2 on 2, thats one thing there.
and Assajji Ventress WAS in the room with the Jedi masters. Give me the death of the guy. Ventress killed him.
One other thing i was looking for, there was something in the beginning about the Jedi being careful to protect the civilians or something like that.
Thank you tho for tracking down the source, if you PM'd that link to me, that'd be great. Source material always beats knowing you read something once!
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