Jaden Korr vs Darth Malak

Originally posted by Advent
Allankles, we do know the effects of Force Stasis; it freezes the victim in place with a visible force field. It's outright visually demonstrated in KotOR and KotOR 2, both in cutscenes. According to the canon policy, cutscenes are canon. Contrary to what you've been suggesting, Force Stasis is its own power; it's not stunned as in after a Force Lightning attack. I'm not even sure your "talking bobblehead" argument holds any water either; do we ever see this happening on any occasion? Not to mention, you're associating dialogue choices that -in no way- alter the actions shown the cutscene, and are therefore irrelevant.

I think you need to play Kotor 1 again. Malak uses a force attack that seemingly nauseates Revan. I know force stasis it has a different animation in Kotor. He "stuns" Revan he doesn't freeze him in place. Same thing with Nihilus in Kotor 2. I hope we're not debating whatever powers these characters are given in D & D support sources, just demonstrated power & skill.

Originally posted by Advent
Force Stasis is essentially Force Stun that allows up to three targets to be affected. The part about Stasis being a separate power/upgrade would be the game mechanic.

Except force stun as effected by Malak and Nihilus didn't freeze anyone in place. It seemingly affected their equilibrium, there was no visible force field involved.

You've lost. Learn how to accept it, otherwise you'll continue to embarrass yourself.

You've said as much already, the evidence (as per usual) is against you.

Originally posted by Allankles
You've said as much already, the evidence (as per usual) is against you.

Sorry, your argument has been defeated by 3 people. Move along.

Originally posted by Allankles
I think you need to play Kotor 1 again. Malak uses a force attack that seemingly nauseates Revan. I know force stasis it has a different animation in Kotor. He "stuns" Revan he doesn't freeze him in place. Same thing with Nihilus in Kotor 2. I hope we're not debating whatever powers these characters are given in D & D support sources, just demonstrated power & skill.

Except force stun as effected by Malak and Nihilus didn't freeze anyone in place. It seemingly affected their equilibrium, there was no visible force field involved.

Cake.

Below

Originally posted by Dr McBeefington
Sorry, your argument has been defeated by 3 people. Move along.

I was arguing force stun i.e. kotor 2. You were arguing stun and stasis are the same, they aren't.

And as far as this battle is concerned the stasis in kotor was clearly a gameplay mechanic. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FXEsFSwHWfI&feature=related

Originally posted by Wolverine2179
?? There was a blue "force field" freezing revan in place.

True, I was thinking of force stun (stasis and stun were both clearly distinguished in both Kotors contrary to what Beef said).

In the case of Malak in Kotor, it seems to be a gameplay cue using a simple d&d influenced power, it was in keeping with the limited combat system in place in kotor.

Originally posted by Allankles
I was arguing force stun i.e. kotor 2. You were arguing stun and stasis are the same, they aren't.

And as far as this battle is concerned the stasis in kotor was clearly a gameplay mechanic. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FXEsFSwHWfI&feature=related

Sucks to be you. Stasis is an upgrade of stun. Stasis is canon force ability used by many sith/jedi of the old republic, including Malak. For the millionth time, you lose.

Stun is not an upgrade on stasis. With Stasis there's force field or force bubble surrounding the target according to the source your referencing (see Kotor 1).

Stun (like Nihilus's attack in Kotor 2) causes a dizziness and doesn't involve any kind of force field or bubble. There's a clear distinction, I was talking about that force stun.

Revan suffered similar effects (force stun) at the hands of the mad Sith Master on Korriban, regardless it is a d&d gimmick imposed upon the game as a compromise, it's not worth debating over e.g. force whirl wind (which is basically tk and shouldn't be a technique on its own).

It has no demonstrated combat effectiveness as shown by Malak (which makes it even less debate worthy). http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FXEsFSwHWfI&feature=related

Originally posted by Dr McBeefington
Sucks to be you. Stasis is an upgrade of stun. Stasis is canon force ability used by many sith/jedi of the old republic, including Malak. For the millionth time, you lose.

Yes I read it the first time. You're arguing semantics I was arguing effects. By Stun I wasn't referring to the force field/freezing power. Kavar and Malak used that in Kotor I'm aware.

I was talking about Nihilus "stunning" effect, as well as a similar occurrence with Revan in Kotor (although that was under different circumstances).

You shouldn't have brought it up without understanding what I was arguing in the first place and I should have cleared the confusion a while ago.

As a combat move, Malak felt he needed to retreat even after landing it, so it's not really something we should debate.

I think you need to play Kotor 1 again.

I need to replay KotOR because I was right about Force Stasis being its own power and an effective one, at that? That sure makes a whopping load of sense. Let's not lose sight of what I was replying to; your unsupported assumptions: 1) despite the fact it happened in a cutscene (canon according to the policy), it was "gameplay", 2) "talking bobbleheads LOL!" (care to point out where this ever occurs, btw?), and 3) we don't know what Force Stasis does, among other inanities such as "it's Dungeons & Dragons!".

All of which were debunked, weren't elaborated upon, or were plainly left out to dry in your replies.

Malak uses a force attack that seemingly nauseates Revan. I know force stasis it has a different animation in Kotor. He "stuns" Revan he doesn't freeze him in place. Same thing with Nihilus in Kotor 2.

YouTube video

6:33 - Malak puts both Carth and Bastila in a stasis with a visible force field.

7:57 - Malak puts Revan in the same stasis with a visible force field.

It's Force Stasis on both accounts. What was your point again? Even if he doesn't use Stasis on Revan (he does obviously), that doesn't change the fact he used it on Carth and Bastila.

I hope we're not debating whatever powers these characters are given in D & D support sources, just demonstrated power & skill.

Malak, in the same Youtube link you provided, demonstrates on screen the ability to use Force Stasis. Therefore, it's a demonstrated power. QED.

Originally posted by Allankles
As a combat move, Malak felt he needed to retreat even after landing it, so it's not really something we should debate.

I had no clue that you were actually Darth Malak in disguise; how else could you know what Malak felt! It wasn't you (Malak) who felt you (he) needed to retreat; you were (he was) toying with them the entire time. If you recall, Carth Onasi outright states that even the three of them combined (Bastila, Revan) don't stand a snowball's chance in hell against you (Malak).

As a combat move, freezing the opponent in place is certainly viable; even Force Stun should prove to be effective. It would provide an opening.

Originally posted by Advent
I need to replay KotOR because I was right about Force Stasis being its own power and an effective one, at that? That sure makes a whopping load of sense. Let's not lose sight of what I was replying to; your unsupported assumptions: 1) despite the fact it happened in a cutscene (canon according to the policy), it was "gameplay", 2) "talking bobbleheads LOL!" (care to point out where this ever occurs, btw?), and 3) we don't know what Force Stasis does, among other inanities such as "it's Dungeons & Dragons!".

All of which were debunked, weren't elaborated upon, or were plainly left out to dry in your replies.

YouTube video

6:33 - Malak puts both Carth and Bastila in a stasis with a visible force field.

7:57 - Malak puts Revan in the same stasis with a visible force field.

It's Force Stasis on both accounts. What was your point again? Even if he doesn't use Stasis on Revan (he does obviously), that doesn't change the fact he used it on Carth and Bastila.

Malak, in the same Youtube link you provided, demonstrates on screen the ability to use Force Stasis. Therefore, it's a demonstrated power. QED.

I had no clue that you were actually Darth Malak in disguise; how else could you know what Malak felt! It wasn't you (Malak) who felt you (he) needed to retreat; you were (he was) toying with them the entire time. If you recall, Carth Onasi outright states that even the three of them combined (Bastila, Revan) don't stand a snowball's chance in hell against you (Malak).

As a combat move, freezing the opponent in place is certainly viable; even Force Stun should prove to be effective. It would provide an opening.

Owned.

Wheres your typical owned picture hunny?

Originally posted by Advent
Let's not lose sight of what I was replying to; your unsupported assumptions: 1) despite the fact it happened in a cutscene (canon according to the policy), it was "gameplay", 2) "talking bobbleheads LOL!" (care to point out where this ever occurs, btw?), and 3) we don't know what Force Stasis does, among other inanities such as "it's Dungeons & Dragons!".

All of which were debunked, weren't elaborated upon, or were plainly left out to dry in your replies.

It appears people don't like reading posts, I even separated my words after every 3rd line or so to make reading easy. I already mentioned I was talking about something else. e.g. the groggy animations in both games (Nihilus vs Exile, and Revan with the old Sith master).

I was arguing something else entirely, I already acknowledged as much in my previous post. You and Saxy are so eager to call me out on bs without recognizing that I was referring to something unrelated to Stasis, I misinterpreted your statement.

if i had known you were talking about Malak's tame force bubble I wouldn't be talking about bobbleheads.

As far as its relevance as a combat effective force power for Malak that's another matter. If we want to call canon on the cut scene then it should be pointed that it proved ineffectual for Malak, other than letting him deliver a monologue and retreat.

The reason I disagreed with your initial claim advent was because I thought you were talking about some potent attack Malak used.

The only time Revan was at the mercy of his opponent was when he faced the Sith master on Korriban, and I thought that I'd forgotten something when you mentioned that Malak could stun Jaden.

The Exile was put in a similar state by Nihilus. Malak never did the same to Revan, he talked and retreated.

Originally posted by Advent
I had no clue that you were actually Darth Malak in disguise; how else could you know what Malak felt! It wasn't you (Malak) who felt you (he) needed to retreat; you were (he was) toying with them the entire time. If you recall, Carth Onasi outright states that even the three of them combined (Bastila, Revan) don't stand a snowball's chance in hell against you (Malak).

As a combat move, freezing the opponent in place is certainly viable; even Force Stun should prove to be effective. It would provide an opening.

And Carth Onasi would know, considering he wasn't even in the fight? You know you're actually calling PIS on Malak? 🙁 Why would Revan need PIS for Malak?

Unless the real reason for its use was as a gameplay cue using the available (but limited) combat system to give a means for Malak to retreat or deal with several combatants without the battle looking especially awkward or unconvincing?

Note: I'm not debating canon, and I wasn't doing it before by pointing out kotor's d&d influences.

Originally posted by Allankles
It appears people don't like reading posts, I even separated my words after every 3rd line or so to make reading easy.

Please, Allankles. As you can see here, your rambling triple posts simply go on to submit that you didn't understand what you were addressing in the first place. If you bothered to read anything I wrote beforehand, you wouldn't have tried to contest it.

What I'm wondering most is, how "groggy animations" via Force Stun are relevant to Force Stasis; something I described as aesthetically different from Force Stun. You didn't explain how the language I used caused your confusion.

You and Saxy are so eager to call me out on bs without recognizing that I was referring to something unrelated to Stasis, I misinterpreted your statement.

So, you quoted my post about Force Stasis (on two occasions), to respond to something completely unrelated to Force Stasis? I don't quite understand that, but it's quite alright.

As far as its relevance as a combat effective force power for Malak that's another matter. If we want to call canon on the cut scene then it should be pointed that it proved ineffectual for Malak, other than letting him deliver a monologue and retreat.

Ineffectual, can you support that at all? Hint: No. Bastila Shan, who's willpower topples nigh everyone of her era, was shown to be frozen for the several minutes it takes to duel Malak and unlock the door.

Watch 7:13 in that Youtube video, Malak doesn't even use Force Stasis on Revan when he leaves during their first encounter, it's Force Whirlwind; he intended for Revan to follow (*duh!* It's the PC). Afterwards, at 7:57, Revan is put in a stasis until at least 8:20+. If you notice, Malak charges Bastila while Revan is still stuck in a stasis, completely vulnerable with no way of defending himself. It's actually Revan and Carth who retreat while Bastila saves him by engaging Malak.

Malak could have very easily killed Revan, Bastila, or Carth. If it weren't for Bastila, Revan would have died. It is an extremely potent attack.

And Carth Onasi would know, considering he wasn't even in the fight? You know you're actually calling PIS on Malak? Why would Revan need PIS for Malak?

Yes, Carth Onasi would know. Bastila knew. Revan knew. And Malak himself knew it. Bastila goes on to sacrifice herself so that Revan could make his escape; Revan and Carth agree that they can't take him hence leaving her behind. I'm in no way calling plot-induced stupidity on anything, perhaps you are, but you'll need to prove up.

Unless the real reason for its use was as a gameplay cue using the available (but limited) combat system to give a means for Malak to retreat or deal with several combatants without the battle looking especially awkward or unconvincing?

Note: I'm not debating canon, and I wasn't doing it before by pointing out kotor's d&d influences.

You've yet to explain how the D&D system is relevant to cutscenes, though. Giving an answer to your own question about PIS doesn't help much without laying down the groundwork. Despite providing the link to the video and my embedding it here, it appears that you're still not even sure what happened in the cutscene. You should review it carefully first; then formulate your opinion.