I like your argument concerning Mandrakk.
Originally posted by Endless MikeBeyonder wasn't omnipotent either
Originally posted by Endless MikeHe obviously was not, since his power was described in finite terms.
Originally posted by xJLxKingand infinite as well.
I'll let Mr. M answer this question
Originally posted by Endless MikeHe gave half of his power to Dazzler. You can't split infinity in half.
Originally posted by Endless MikeHe was said to be "millions of times the power of the multiverse" -
that's a finite number.
So Beyonder was millions of times more powerful than an infinity of power.
So, Beyonder was definitely omnipotent! .. and more really. (Marvel's levels of infinity)
Originally posted by theICONiac
According to the nerds over at Comic Vine:http://www.comicvine.com/dc-power-rankings/12-42222/
Looks like Mandrakk might have some problems! Ultimator ain't such a pussy afterall...
Love that list.
Rama Kushna > Michael 😱
Originally posted by Mr Master
I like your argument concerning Mandrakk.Actually, Beyonder was beyond infinite in power.
But that's still not omnipotent.
You can have infinite power but not be omnipotent. Remember what Kubik and Kosmos said about the Celestials, they said that they (the cube beings) had infinite power but the Celestials had greater infinite power. But Celestials aren't omnipotent either.
Omnipotence doesn't mean infinite power, it means infinite [b]ability.
The Marvelverse was infinite. (trans-infinite according to Dr Strange)So Beyonder was millions of times more powerful than an infinity of power.
Makes no sense. Infinity x millions still = infinity. There is no difference.
So, Beyonder was definitely omnipotent! .. and more really. (Marvel's levels of infinity) [/B]
No he wasn't, because he showed limits. For example, he was pushed back a bit by an attack from a space fleet. He had trouble understanding things. He got his power stolen by Dr. Doom. He couldn't defeat Molecule Man instantly, they actually fought each other (although Beyonder was stronger MM was still able to fight him).
I reiterate that I have never seen anything to be construed as a True Omnipotent being in comics, anime, manga, video games, novels, etc. Writing one would be very difficult and perhaps impossible for a human writer.
Originally posted by Endless MikeBut that's still not omnipotent.
Originally posted by Endless MikeYou can have infinite power but not be omnipotent. Remember what Kubik and Kosmos said about the Celestials, they said that they (the cube beings) had infinite power but the Celestials had greater infinite power. But Celestials aren't omnipotent either.
Omnipotence doesn't mean infinite power, it means infinite [b]ability. [/B]
And who said omnipotence means infinite ability and not power?
Because my logic tells me that infinite power,
means you have infinite ability.
Since Cube beings can re-arrange reality on a universal scale,
and Reality in Marvel = Time/Space and everything in-between.
Originally posted by Endless MikeMakes no sense. Infinity x millions still = infinity. There is no difference.
But the real world is inconsequential,
since IN Marvel comics that is a canon 100% absolute truth.
Originally posted by Endless MikeNo he wasn't because he showed limits.
Originally posted by Endless MikeFor example, he was pushed back a bit by an attack from a space fleet.
... Which he also did, while limiting himself?
Nah.
Originally posted by Endless MikeHe had trouble understanding things.
Originally posted by Endless MikeHe got his power stolen by Dr. Doom.
Not sure if you're aware of this,
but yea, it was Beyonder who set himself up in that situation.
(Shooter's PIS way to make the saga more interesting)
Originally posted by Endless MikeHe couldn't defeat Molecule Man instantly, they actually fought each other (although Beyonder was stronger MM was still able to fight him).
And Owen was more powerful than the infinite Multiverse combined as well (including the LT)
So Beyonder stomped infinite power, while limiting himself no less.
Originally posted by Endless MikeI reiterate that I have never seen anything to be construed as a True Omnipotent being in comics, anime, manga, video games, novels, etc. Writing one would be very difficult and perhaps impossible for a human writer.
Mike why are you carrying on about this. If you believe in God whether that be Christian or Muslim or whatever... Don't you believe he is omnipotent and has omniscience? Then why would he need Noah to build and ark and carry every animal in twos on said ark to populate the world again? Couldn't he just have willed that to happen? Why would he let Adam and Eve eat the fruit even though he already knew they would? Even in our religious belief systems, our God still lets things happen and works in ways we can't comprehend.
Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Mike why are you carrying on about this. If you believe in God whether that be Christian or Muslim or whatever... Don't you believe he is omnipotent and has omniscience? Then why would he need Noah to build and ark and carry every animal in twos on said ark to populate the world again? Couldn't he just have willed that to happen? Why would he let Adam and Eve eat the fruit even though he already knew they would? Even in our religious belief systems, our God still lets things happen and works in ways we can't comprehend.
Mr.Mind ate Superman's story 😄
http://i799.photobucket.com/albums/yy275/llagrok/5252pg10.jpg
Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Mike why are you carrying on about this. If you believe in God whether that be Christian or Muslim or whatever... Don't you believe he is omnipotent and has omniscience? Then why would he need Noah to build and ark and carry every animal in twos on said ark to populate the world again? Couldn't he just have willed that to happen? Why would he let Adam and Eve eat the fruit even though he already knew they would? Even in our religious belief systems, our God still lets things happen and works in ways we can't comprehend.
Originally posted by xJLxKing
I am not Christian, or Jewish, but I do believe it has something to do with free will, and a lesson for humanity.
Right... which was my point. We can't comprehend why omnipotent "things" do what they do. He was saying well because he allowed this or didn't know this means he wasn't this. To which I pointed out that even in the real world religous beliefs systems of most in the world this same thing occurs.
Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Right... which was my point. We can't comprehend why omnipotent "things" do what they do. He was saying well because he allowed this or didn't know this means he wasn't this. To which I pointed out that even in the real world religous beliefs systems of most in the world this same thing occurs.
Originally posted by Mr Master
If you say so,
but Marvel says he was,
so,
since Marvel runs Marvel comics,
I'll side with them.
If Marvel said Wolverine was a blue-spotted pigeon when he clearly isn't, would you believe them? 🙄
And who said omnipotence means infinite ability and not power?Because my logic tells me that infinite power,
means you have infinite ability.Since Cube beings can re-arrange reality on a universal scale,
and Reality in Marvel = Time/Space and everything in-between.In Marvel comics, like in many sectors of the real world,
there are different levels of infinity.
No, because infinite power does not mean you can do anything. Say you have the ability to fire energy blasts that have an infinite amount of power. That's infinite power. But you can't bring back the dead or create people with that power. You can just blast things.
Basically, it works like this. For a truly omnipotent being, any ability you can think of, that being has that ability. If said being ever demonstrates the lack of any ability at all, it is, by definition, not omnipotent.
But the real world is inconsequential,
since IN Marvel comics that is a canon 100% absolute truth.
Yes but that's not how you get higher levels of infinity, if you just multiply infinity by millions or some other finite number you get the same infinity, you need to use Cardinal Numbers to get higher infinities.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cardinal_number
Yes he was, and the only limits he showed were imposed by he himself.
Prove it.
You mean the space fleet he erased from existence with a gesture?... Which he also did, while limiting himself?
Nah.
Doesn't matter, he was still pushed back.
He had trouble understanding the concept of desire which stems from limitation,
due to the fact that he was beyond infinite,
this is why he limited himself,
to try and fit in.
If he really wanted to fit in he could have done so just by wanting to. He wouldn't have to go to all of that trouble.
You mean a Dr Doom from a non-existent future which Beyonder himself coerced.Not sure if you're aware of this,
but yea, it was Beyonder who set himself up in that situation.
(Shooter's PIS way to make the saga more interesting)
I know he pulled Doom from a future timeline but Doom still jacked his powers and he only got them back because Doom couldn't control them. In fact Beyonder didn't even understand what was going on until he observed Klaw trying to psych out Doom, and he just copied Klaw's ideas to trick Doom.
Again, you're still bringing up Beyonder in his self imposed limited state.And Owen was more powerful than the infinite Multiverse combined as well (including the LT)
So Beyonder stomped infinite power, while limiting himself no less.
Beyonder and MM were fighting all the way to the end of the saga. MM in that arc was beyond LT too. Also when he died he only created 1 universe.
I have, and Beyonder is one of them,
there are others as well.
Then you just do not understand the actual definition of omnipotence.
Mike why are you carrying on about this. If you believe in God whether that be Christian or Muslim or whatever... Don't you believe he is omnipotent and has omniscience? Then why would he need Noah to build and ark and carry every animal in twos on said ark to populate the world again? Couldn't he just have willed that to happen? Why would he let Adam and Eve eat the fruit even though he already knew they would? Even in our religious belief systems, our God still lets things happen and works in ways we can't comprehend.
I'm an atheist 😎
