Reed Richards & Dr Doom Vs Thanos

^ continued

Originally posted by quanchi112
Comparing Thanos' role against Nebula to Doom's role and who was more significant is a direct comparison.

Comparing Doom's failure when targeted to Thanos prevailing when targeted against the Magus is a direct comparison.

Thanos abandoned this goal the moment he discovered his true intentions. Quit bringing this up like Thanos couldn't do so and like he admitted defeat.

Not really. A more direct comparison is comparing how Doom failed to obtain the incomplete inactive IG when Magus relied on the CCU's to when Thanos also failed to obtain the incomplete inactive IG when Magus relied on the CCU's. And when you make that comparison, Doom came far closer than Thanos. But I'm not going to pull a quanchism and ignore context. Context is our friend. And ultimately, Magus prepped for Thanos and not for Doom.

Doom unlocked the PC faster. No equivocating around that. I don't care if you think Thanos eventually would have unlocked the secrets of stripping and imbuing the Power Cosmic simply because that's a baseless statement. He had weeks, didn't do it weeks, and then realized he was duped by Annihilus. Doom did it on-panel in shorter time with less resources. Oops.

Originally posted by quanchi112
I got it the first few times. What you don't seem to get is the ig>Celestials>cc's.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Ps. Don't ever let me catch you twisting another Thanos feat into something with scans of him despairing over the situation again. Ever.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Comparing Doom's failure when targeted to Thanos prevailing when targeted against the Magus is a direct comparison.

Still. Not really. Doom has Kang's assistance and Galactus/LT/Gamora essentially screwed Doom out of the IG. Thanos had all the Defenders' assistance and TOAA wanted Thanos to get the THOTU. Context. It is our friend. It wishes to shake your hand and say, "Good evening, sir. Shall we have cakes and tea?"

You don't hate cakes and tea do you?

DO YOU?

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Beyonder =/= Kosmos =/= energies that Dr Doom stole. I don't enjoy repeating myself, but what can I do? You obviously need to reread it for yourself to be convinced or have someone else explain it to you because you simply don't read what I write.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Thanos himself responds, "Chosen and [b]tricked. A poisonous trinket was offered and I foolishly leapt for it."
Yes, he alone. Because he alone is all that's left with the power. Is he going to pass it off to Warlock? And again, Warlock's pontifications are repelled as Thanos himself says, "Spare me... Defeat is humiliation enough!"
From my perspective, his using a loophole detracts from the feat of final self-sacrifice. But it's quite obvious you consider an upgrade (including "life-assuring wishes"😉 for future adventures to be more important. Different views, whatever. Still... going down that road of future adventures, it's then quite unfortunate that Thanos subsequently was tricked by Annihilus and got his heart torn out by Drax in Annihilation. Those "life-assuring wishes" should have included anti-Drax spray. 😂

I jest, I jest. Anyway, you refuse to let context detract from highly compartmentalized feats within the story. And I use the term "compartmentalized" very purposefully. It's like you're hiding them from the rest of the story. So Thanos got THOTU and not Doom? So what? You don't care to acknowledge that TOAA never meant for Doom to have it and laid this trap for Thanos. Nor do you care to acknowledge that Thanos does not consider this a victory in any sense. Despite your exhortations and Warlock's pity, Thanos' own words are quite telling: "tricked," "insane joke," "foolishly," "defeat," "humiliation." These are his words, not mine.

You can accuse me of projecting some petty vitriol onto the events of Marvel Universe: The End, but really, all I'm doing is simply reading Thanos' own account on-panel. And tbh, while victory may be in the eye of the beholder, we are dealing with Thanos and his perspective is telling.

So while you may try to use his gaining of THOTU as some sort of superior feat that Doom couldn't accomplish in the context of this debate, it's my opinion (derived from Thanos'😉 that it's pretty much a non-feat and not really something to be proud of. The self-sacrifice you could be proud of... until oops... no self-sacrifice. Meh. [/B]

No, he was chosen as Thanos initially said. Warlock was right there and he had also wielded the ig before. The point in the supreme being selected Thanos as he was the best/only man for the job. Doom was just some fool in this story.

Thanos is happy as he is right besides his Mistress Death's side. He wasn't able to predict and alter any obstacle thrown his way. He was cheapshotted by the very being initially created to destroy him after he underwent some dramatic transformation with Thanos' killing stroke in his dna.

Thanos didn't realize that reality was doomed and how would he until he became supreme? Seriously? Doom had he achieved this power would be in the same boat and couldn't even foresee his plan as just a way for Ak to kill him over and over again. That's called failure. Thanos still did what he and he alone could do, found the loophole, upgraded himself, restored his former armada, and saved the day. Not bad, eh?

No, you choose to highlight his comments when he was initially despairing over the situation he got himself into. He got himself out of it and Warlock also agreed Thanos was the only man for the job.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
^ continued
Not really. They all got tossed around and were scrambling over each other to get the IG and Warlock got it.

Not really. A more direct comparison is comparing how Doom failed to obtain the incomplete inactive IG when Magus relied on the CCU's [b]to when Thanos also failed to obtain the incomplete inactive IG when Magus relied on the CCU's. And when you make that comparison, Doom came far closer than Thanos. But I'm not going to pull a quanchism and ignore context. Context is our friend. And ultimately, Magus prepped for Thanos and not for Doom.

Doom unlocked the PC faster. No equivocating around that. I don't care if you think Thanos eventually would have unlocked the secrets of stripping and imbuing the Power Cosmic simply because that's a baseless statement. He had weeks, didn't do it weeks, and then realized he was duped by Annihilus. Doom did it on-panel in shorter time with less resources. Oops.
What makes you think that the energies that Doom stole was a cosmic cube? You don't know the differences between (i) Beyonder's energies as they were ripped from the Beyond realm, (ii) SWII Beyonder coalescing into the 616 realm, (iii) SWII Beyonder merging with MM and adopting the nascent form of a Cube Being, and (iv) what a Cosmic Cube is. You've conflated all the concepts. Either you're uneducated or you're doing it on purpose.
P.S. Get over yourself, bro. [/B]

If you want to go that route I will do so. Doom failed in the end while Thanos was there and played a pivotal role in defeating the Magus. Thanos also achieved supremacy and wasn't doomed to be repeatedly killed in time again and again. What a horrible fate Doom's genius plan left for him. 😂

So? He didn't fail. This is all you whine about as Doom's greatest victory like discovering and utilizing the pc means anything. Thanos didn't fail and his greatest accomplishments far outweigh the pc. This has nothing to do with anything really and Thanos' one clone it seems possessed the power cosmic. Just saying.

If I haven't missed anything like a retcon Beyonder is just capable of a cc. If I am wrong lead me in the proper direction. We have seen very powerful cc's compared as nothing to the Celestials. SW2 was retconned as well.

Just don't let me catch you.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Actually on this, you're comparing Doom vs Akhenaten to Thanos vs Magus. Ah.

Still. Not really. Doom has Kang's assistance and Galactus/LT/Gamora essentially screwed Doom out of the IG. Thanos had all the Defenders' assistance and TOAA wanted Thanos to get the THOTU. Context. It is our friend. It wishes to shake your hand and say, "Good evening, sir. Shall we have cakes and tea?"

You don't hate cakes and tea do you?

DO YOU?

Doom hadn't figured out all the angles and wasn't aware of everything that was going on just like in marvel's the end. He came out a loser and Thanos despite the supreme being's dupe still came out a winner and a hero.

It's you who ignores context.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
[b]Comparing Dr Doom prepping against Thanos w/ full IG to Thanos prepping against the Elders of the Universe to obtain the IG. Indirect comparison.

Comparing Dr Doom fighting against Nebula to Thanos fighting against Nebula. Direct comparison.

Comparing Dr Doom prepping against Akhenaten, who had prepped against Dr Doom already, to Thanos prepping against Akhenaten secretly. Indirect comparison.

Comparing how Dr Doom did when figuring out the Power Cosmic to how Thanos did when figuring out the Power Cosmic. Direct comparison.

It's not a hard concept to grasp. Just because you blatantly skew all your comparisons in your mind for your character's favor doesn't make it cogent argumentation which I have to accept. Frankly, I feel like I'm patronizing you by lecturing you on what would be immediately obvious to anybody. But since I'm not going to accuse you of lying, I'm going to have to assume you don't know what you're doing wrong. I'll keep trying to dumb it down.
Beyonder =/= Kosmos =/= energies that Dr Doom stole. I don't enjoy repeating myself, but what can I do? You obviously need to reread it for yourself to be convinced or have someone else explain it to you because you simply don't read what I write.

Thanos' self-aggrandizing doesn't mean much when you actually take into context what he specifically said. Key word is "seemingly." Not only that, but Thanos himself talks about what a hollow victory it was later on:

http://img263.imageshack.us/img263/3352/marveltheend5kebbin02im8.jpg

and here

http://img20.imageshack.us/img20/7483/mute0101dh0.jpg

and here

http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/795224/T5.jpg.html

... what? [/B]

Very nice One. 👆 I'll keep reading

Originally posted by quanchi112
No, I was comparing the end results of the Magus against both. Thanos still came out in the end as being very pivotal and successful while Doom was just defeated even though he had the element of surprise on his side.

Doom hadn't figured out all the angles and wasn't aware of everything that was going on just like in marvel's the end. He came out a loser and Thanos despite the supreme being's dupe still came out a winner and a hero.

It's you who ignores context.

No. Thanos in his own words: "tricked," "insane joke," "foolishly," "defeat," "humiliation." Thanos' real claim to fame, as Adam Warlock aggrandizes, was that Thanos would sacrifice himself for all creation and nobody would ever know... except he didn't. Meh. And if you want to deal in absolutes, Thanos is dead. Doom ain't.

Not really. I don't ignore context because context is my friend and I have shall cakes and tea with it.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0

Not really. I don't ignore context because context is my friend and I have shall cakes and tea with it.

😆 hehe

Originally posted by -Pr-
Richards and Doom. Hard to imagine them being outsmarted if they work together.

Wrong. Thanos.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Except that Doom was allying w/ Kang to fight against a Magus who was utilizing 5 CCU's and Thanos was allying w/ every Marvel superhero to fight against a Magus who was utilizing an incomplete IG. Slight difference, slick.

No. Thanos in his own words: "tricked," "insane joke," "foolishly," "defeat," "humiliation." Thanos' real claim to fame, as Adam Warlock aggrandizes, was that Thanos would sacrifice himself for all creation and nobody would ever know... except he didn't. Meh. And if you want to deal in absolutes, Thanos is dead. Doom ain't.

Not really. I don't ignore context because context is my friend and I have shall cakes and tea with it.

Thanos was tricked and yet he fixed everything WITHOUT having to sacrifice himself. You want to just highlight Thanos feeling down on himself and forget about the end result.

Thanos is with Death the love of his life. Even in death the guy wins. Doom is just a minor villain anyways compared to what happens when Thanos becomes involved.

Live in denial all you want, you doombot.

Originally posted by quanchi112
But Thanos wasn't under the radar while Doom was. Thanos also pulled off hiding the reality gem despite being on his radar, slick. Context, it's your friend not your enemy.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Thanos was tricked and yet he fixed everything WITHOUT having to sacrifice himself. You want to just highlight Thanos feeling down on himself and forget about the end result.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Thanos is with Death the love of his life. Even in death the guy wins. Doom is just a minor villain anyways compared to what happens when Thanos becomes involved.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Which only adds to the many reasons why you can't qualitatively compare the two scenarios because they aren't congruent AT ALL. You know that swooshing sound you've been hearing everytime you respond to my posts? That's the point flying right by ya... again.
No, I'm just presenting Thanos' own view of the events in Marvel Universe: The End, which is extremely revealing in that everything was arranged. So gaining THOTU is literally a non-feat. I also fully embrace the end result because it completely negates the heroic sacrifice that he was supposed to have made in return for (i) his fleet and technology back, which was subverted by Annihilus in Annihilation (oops), (ii) "life-assuring wishes" which unfortunately didn't include anti-Drax spray (oops again), and (iii) a new lease on life for new adventures which unfortunately ended up in him being a few steps away from undoing the crisis he helped create by rigging the Galactus-bomb (oopsie-oops). Staggering end results. Clearly.
So when Reed and Doom win this fight and kill Thanos, Thanos'll win in death. Gotcha.

You ignored how the story ended and how Warlock also agreed that only Thanos could pull it off. Do you honestly believe anyone could have done it? I expect an answer.

Thanos turned his back and you know the rest. You can't prepare for every obstacle that comes your way. How was Thanos to know Drax would undergo a dramatic transformation which would enable him to do so? Is he supposed to be all knowing? Cuz Doom sure the hell isn't.

I still remember when he ran right into Galactus' shield and was dismissed like some kinda of idiot.

Thanos is well beyond either of these two in a chess match. he will steamroll them like he does all his competition when motivated.

Thanos was chosen to get the HOTU because ONLY HE had the power and will to subjugate it.

http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa41/quanchi112/marveltheend4kebbin08-4.jpg

^ Self-aggrandizing statement that came in toward the beginning of Thanos' narrative. Well before he finally revealed that TOAA had planned it all along, which robs this prior narration of it's inherent truthfulness when Thanos later has the epiphany that he was "perfect" for the job based on Thanos' career in nihilism, since the solution involved total destruction before recreation without the systemic flaw:

Originally posted by quanchi112
You want to ignore the end results and their success. Success is the only thing that really matters in the end anyways.

And your obsession with end-results is flawed in and of itself because of your tunnel-vision. You deem Thanos' adventure with THOTU as an unqualified success, when he was set up by TOAA from the start and ignore how the return of his tech and "life-assuring" wishes actually didn't mean spit in Annihilation, where he was completely duped by Annihilus.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
^ Self-aggrandizing statement that came in toward the beginning of Thanos' narrative. Well before he finally revealed that TOAA had planned it all along, which robs this prior narration of it's inherent truthfulness when Thanos later has the epiphany that he was "perfect" for the job based on Thanos' career in nihilism, since the solution involved total destruction before recreation without the systemic flaw:

Not at all. Straw-man and a poor one at that. I fully recognize the end results but realize that through consideration of relevant context, the two scenarios cannot be legitimately compared on an even keel. You called context your friend earlier, don't forget your friends from one post to the next.

And your obsession with end-results is flawed in and of itself because of your tunnel-vision. You deem Thanos' adventure with THOTU as an unqualified success, when he was set up by TOAA from the start and ignore how the return of his tech and "life-assuring" wishes actually didn't mean spit in Annihilation, where he was completely duped by Annihilus.

I haven't. Thanos triumphed when he was prepped against and when he wasn't. Doom lost when he was prepped against and when he wasn't. Both situations involved Thanos being triumphant and successful while Doom failed in both. No matter how you attempt to spin it Thanos>>Doom.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Again, Warlock also agreed that Thanos was the perfect candidate and this statement doesn't override Thanos' feat of being this power's master. Akh went mad and it took him a lot of time to just master a little bit of it so don't you dare try to sell me this.

Originally posted by quanchi112
I haven't. Thanos triumphed when he was prepped against and when he wasn't. Doom lost when he was prepped against and when he wasn't. Both situations involved Thanos being triumphant and successful while Doom failed in both. No matter how you attempt to spin it Thanos>>Doom.

And this thread is about Reed and Doom. And Reed + Doom >>>>>> Thanos.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
I already pointed out that Warlock's statements were rejected by Thanos who characterized the events as "tricked" and himself as "foolishly" leaping into it. I'm not selling you anything, I was explaining it to King Kandy as I already explained it to you. Ignoring my rebuttals doesn't help your cause.
You're repeating yourself and again ignoring my rebuttals. You can continue with ad ignorantium all you want, but your comparisons are completely incongruent and therefore worthless in your efforts to argue Thanos' achievements outstripping Doom's.

And this thread is about Reed and Doom. And Reed + Doom >>>>>> Thanos.

You are ignoring that one was trimuphant in both scenarios while one failed in both scenarios. You can ignore it all you want.

Thanos wins this as he is on a bigger playing field than either of these two. These guys can compete but when Thanos pus his mind to something he steamrolls the competition and already has devices that can spy on Doom anytime he wants.

I dont know about this one.

The thing is, Thanos has no clue that Doom and Reed are out to stop him. Thanos on the other hand probably has some plans to stop higher beings along the way during his task, but Reed and Doom play on a pretty high field too knowing what the consequences are here in this scenerio.

I just dont know. If Reed and Dooms plan doesnt work quickly, I think Thanos can recover for the win as he usually does. Thanos on the other hand might even be prepared for Reed and Doom because again, thats what he does.

Give Thanos any kind of prep time and we all know how it plays out.

I still give Thanos the majority, but its unclear as to how many he'll take.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Thanos just fell into a momentary despair as he had been tricked. He was the only one who could do so as he earlier pointed it and Warlock later agreed with. Thanos also figured out a way to benefit from the experience. He turned it around like usual.

Originally posted by quanchi112
You are ignoring that one was trimuphant in both scenarios while one failed in both scenarios. You can ignore it all you want.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Thanos wins this as he is on a bigger playing field than either of these two. These guys can compete but when Thanos pus his mind to something he steamrolls the competition and already has devices that can spy on Doom anytime he wants.