Reed Richards & Dr Doom Vs Thanos

Originally posted by tkitna
I dont know about this one.

The thing is, Thanos has no clue that Doom and Reed are out to stop him. Thanos on the other hand probably has some plans to stop higher beings along the way during his task, but Reed and Doom play on a pretty high field too knowing what the consequences are here in this scenerio.

I just dont know. If Reed and Dooms plan doesnt work quickly, I think Thanos can recover for the win as he usually does. Thanos on the other hand might even be prepared for Reed and Doom because again, thats what he does.

Give Thanos any kind of prep time and we all know how it plays out.

I still give Thanos the majority, but its unclear as to how many he'll take.

Reed is the master at pulling shit out from his ass. If he goes into this with prep then as stipulated, he and Doom see this as yet another Universe-ending scenario as mentioned by the OP. Doom will cooperate fully because he doesn't want the universe to fall into someone else's hands.

We all know how Reed approaches universe-threatening situations when he's the main man.

That being said, there's nothing stopping Reed from conferring with the Council and retrieving some artifacts there in order to stop a universal threat, which in this particular situation, Thanos is.

Here Reed admits he (and the Council) are willing to commit murder for the greater good. They literally have multiple Ultimate Nullifiers and freely share it with other members of the group:

One of the Reeds has a functioning Infinity Gauntlet

and 616-Reed pulled out a weapons cache literally from his closet in the baxter building. Among one of the weapons: a "universal entropy gun"

616-Reed has a gun literally lying in his closet that can KILL a celestial (from earth-4280)

I don't see why Reed wouldn't pull out all the stops knowing all the suffering he went through when Thanos acquired the IG. And these scans show that Reed has access, and the will, to use very powerful weapons and objects.

Reed has tech lying around that can destroy an alternate universe celestial. Thanos' own personal tech has never demonstrated anything as close to that in capability or sophistication.

^ Um... wow.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Not just tricked, but suckered into a trap set up for the perfect victim. Thanos' "benefits" from the experience ended up being quite ephemeral in the end, as stated before. Ignore that as you wish, because although you purport to care about end results, you won't go so far as to see what ends up resulting from Thanos' new lease on life.
You're repeating yourself again and ignoring the simple rebuttal offered to you: you're using incongruent scenarios to make a forced comparison.
For your information, Thanos has no knowledge of Reed's and Doom's plans as per thread stipulations. Non-factor.

No, in both situations Thanos came out on top while in neither situation Doom failed. When Thanos in under the radar he succeeds in what he wants to do while Doom was just shy.

He doesn't really need to spy on Doom to pull this off imo anyways. It gives Doom and Reed at least some sort of chance.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Yes, he was tricked by the supreme being as he was the perfect man for the job. Warlock agreed so why won't you?

No, in both situations Thanos came out on top while in neither situation Doom failed. When Thanos in under the radar he succeeds in what he wants to do while Doom was just shy.

He doesn't really need to spy on Doom to pull this off imo anyways. It gives Doom and Reed at least some sort of chance.

Incongruent situations. Forced comparison. Desperate repetition. Ad ignorantium.

Reed+Doom >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanos.

This is retarded together Reed and Doom would put Thanos to shame.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
I already explained the reasons for why he was "perfect" several times. You think it only has to do with some kind of superiority issue based on reading one self-aggrandizing statement in isolation and ignoring context. It wasn't because he was inherently better. It was because (i) Thanos wouldn't be able to discern the trap due to his predilection for obtaining ultimate power, and (ii) his nihilistic obsessions that would inevitably lead him in his anger to destroy the universe. And that was necessary to undo the systemic flaw.

Reminds me of your argument that Beyonder>Kosmos which you have absolutely refused to substantiate beyond calling people who disagree stupid.

Originally posted by King Kandy
We have both posted multiple statements saying thanos was the only one with the necesarry willpower (one of them specifically stating that was why he was chosen), while all you have is a line saying he was tricked. Well, no argument there but the fact he was tricked in no way negates the reason why he and he alone could control THOTU. Neither Akhenaten nor the Celestial Order had the willpower to control THOTU in it's totality. Thanos clearly had something nobody else had, and this is outright stated to be willpower and training.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
^ Self-aggrandizing statement that came in toward the beginning of Thanos' narrative. Well before he finally revealed that TOAA had planned it all along, which robs this prior narration of it's inherent truthfulness when Thanos later has the epiphany that he was "perfect" for the job based on Thanos' career in nihilism, since the solution involved total destruction before recreation without the systemic flaw:

Originally posted by King Kandy
Reminds me of your argument that Beyonder>Kosmos which you have absolutely refused to substantiate beyond calling people who disagree stupid.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Because your interpretation of what Beyonder was, pre-merger to Kosmos is wrong. Beyonder and Molecule Man were not originally two halves of a CC being that existed before them. Their merger did, however, create a fledgling CC being. This is where you cross yourself. Beyonder =/= Kosmos =/= the energies that Doom stole.

Go argue with Mr Master about this.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
What don't you understand about this being a self-aggrandizing statement that is essentially stripped of its reliability by subsequent reveals? I've got more than just a line that states he was tricked. I've got Thanos himself refuting himself later on and him rejecting Adam Warlock's statements. All of which is obvious because of the reveal of the story, TOAA wanted Thanos to gain THOTU and he was "perfect" for this reason:

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
I don't recall calling anyone stupid in this thread. And I don't remember refusing to explain to you a storyline that you yourself should read again before getting into an argument with me over it. As I stated before:

Originally posted by King Kandy
If you think the willpower line is moot and false, then WHY, pray tell, was nobody but Thanos able to handle the full power of THOTU?

Originally posted by Galan007
in all fairness, no other character(s) ever tried to absorb THOTI in it's entirety.

Originally posted by King Kandy
If you think the willpower line is moot and false, then WHY, pray tell, was nobody but Thanos able to handle the full power of THOTU?

Uh huh. And HOW, is Beyonder stronger than a being composed of not only his energies but also another powerful beings? And furthermore, how is beyonder not the same as the energy Doom stole? Doom stole Beyonder's energy stated endlessly in secret wars 1 and 2.

If you recently read the story at all, you'd realize how patently absurd your own incredulity with my own interpretation is. Molecule Man was far more powerful than Kosmos ever was both before and after he merged. That fact should have just informed you off the bat that you're conflating characters and concepts. In this instance, the sum was not greater than the whole of the parts. In fact, it was the exact opposite. Which is why I'm not really bothering to argue with you about this. As for your second question, when power from the Beyond Realm starts manifesting itself in our reality, achieving sentience and maturing into Cube Beings (which started happening in Secret Wars II all the way through to the emergence of Kosmos), that power starts limiting itself.

Reed + Dr.Doom would take it. 😉

Since my name's being posted by ...

I may as well weigh in my stance.

Fact: The canon truth is that Beyonder was a partial Cube,
and Owen, was even a smaller portion of the same thing.

Fact: Beyonder and Owen merge and become a full Cube being.

Fact:

Kubik and/or Kosmos > Beyonder before merging with Owen.

Kubik and/or Kosmos > Owen before merging with Beyonder.

Fact: Owen separates from Kosmos,
but Kosmos has become a standalone Cube being and has no need of Owen to stay as is.

Kubik = Kosmos = Beyonder after separating from Owen.

Fact: Owen's potential exceeds that of Cube beings making him far more powerful,
and the reason is, because he was a human being first,
unlike Kubik, Kosmos and Beyonder who were all composed of power/energy originally and always.

Fact: Owen stomped Beyonder, could've stomped Kubik who paid homage to Owen,
and even clarified how Owen is far greater than himself or Beyonder/Kosmos,
due to the fact that he was/is a human being first.

FACT:

The future alternate of Doom 616
who was plucked from a time that he himself did NOT exist in during SSI
stole the power of a partial Cube being, and nothing more according to Canon Marvel truth.

Partial Cube being < Cube being <<< IG and/or THOTI.

One last note,

Thanos prepped to find THOTI since the Infinity Abyss,
TOAA only allowed Thanos to acquire it,
but Thanos himself had to find it,
tap it,
absorb it,
and finally harness it to become GOD of the Omniverse.

^ Well, those are your opinions. And I respect them, but flatly disagree with almost all of them.

And on that note, I'm totally willing to re-engage in a controlled debate over whether it was 616 Dr. Doom or not in Secret Wars in a battlezone-style deal. Simple to rehash our past arguments and, IMHO, the single easiest one to resolve once and for all as I believe it's ironclad how the comics present that. You let me know.

Still Reed + Doom >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanos in this thread.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
I already explained the reasons for why he was "perfect" several times. You think it only has to do with some kind of superiority issue based on reading one self-aggrandizing statement in isolation and ignoring context. It wasn't because he was inherently better. It was because (i) Thanos wouldn't be able to discern the trap due to his predilection for obtaining ultimate power, and (ii) his nihilistic obsessions that would inevitably lead him in his anger to destroy the universe. And that was necessary to undo the systemic flaw.

Incongruent situations. Forced comparison. Desperate repetition. Ad ignorantium.

Reed+Doom >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanos.

He was simply angry at them for challenging him when he didn't demand worship or anything from them it had nothing to do with his nihilistic nature. They attacked, he got angry, and simply kept on destroying.

Thanos was chosen because he was the only one who could master the energies and fix the flaw even the supreme being couldn't. Thanos also figured out a way to survive and benefit from doing so.

No, that has yet to be proven. Thanos has always been a bigger player than both and hasn't met his match yet when he puts his mind to something. Thanos is simply above them and would steamroll them if he put his mind to it.

Originally posted by iceman24567
This is retarded together Reed and Doom would put Thanos to shame.

Originally posted by Galan007
in all fairness, no other character(s) ever tried to absorb THOTI in it's entirety.

Originally posted by Mr Master
Since my name's being posted by ...

I may as well weigh in my stance.

Fact: The [b]canon truth is that Beyonder was a partial Cube,
and Owen, was even a smaller portion of the same thing.

Fact: Beyonder and Owen merge and become a full Cube being.

Fact:

Kubik and/or Kosmos > Beyonder before merging with Owen.

Kubik and/or Kosmos > Owen before merging with Beyonder.

Fact: Owen separates from Kosmos,
but Kosmos has become a standalone Cube being and has no need of Owen to stay as is.

Kubik = Kosmos = Beyonder after separating from Owen.

Fact: Owen's potential exceeds that of Cube beings making him far more powerful,
and the reason is, because he was a human being first,
unlike Kubik, Kosmos and Beyonder who were all composed of power/energy originally and always.

Fact: Owen stomped Beyonder, could've stomped Kubik who paid homage to Owen,
and even clarified how Owen is far greater than himself or Beyonder/Kosmos,
due to the fact that he was/is a human being first.

FACT:

The future alternate of Doom 616
who was plucked from a time that he himself did NOT exist in during SSI
stole the power of a partial Cube being, and nothing more according to Canon Marvel truth.

Partial Cube being < Cube being <<< IG and/or THOTI.

One last note,

Thanos prepped to find THOTI since the Infinity Abyss,
TOAA only allowed Thanos to acquire it,
but Thanos himself had to find it,
tap it,
absorb it,
and finally harness it to become GOD of the Omniverse. [/B]

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
^ Well, those are your opinions. And I respect them, but flatly disagree with almost all of them.

And on that note, I'm totally willing to re-engage in a controlled debate over whether it was 616 Dr. Doom or not in Secret Wars in a battlezone-style deal. Simple to rehash our past arguments and, IMHO, the single easiest one to resolve once and for all as I believe it's ironclad how the comics present that. You let me know.

Still Reed + Doom >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanos in this thread.

Originally posted by quanchi112
No, that has yet to be proven. Thanos has always been a bigger player than both and hasn't met his match yet when he puts his mind to something. Thanos is simply above them and would steamroll them if he put his mind to it.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Did you miss Akh taking a whole lot of time to absorb much less power in the story?

Originally posted by quanchi112
You completely destroyed odg's distortions of what actually happened.

You haven't proven anything of the sort. A motivated Thanos has warranted universal attention how many times when he wants something? These two are simply in over their head.

Frankly, I've never found attention-gaining to be absolutely indicative of any substance. A child crying wolf gets a lot of attention too. That result doesn't necessarily imbue his actions with any inherent meaningfulness though.

OneDumb = awesome

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
^ Well, those are your opinions. And I respect them, but flatly disagree with almost all of them.

And on that note, I'm totally willing to re-engage in a controlled debate over whether it was 616 Dr. Doom or not in Secret Wars in a battlezone-style deal. Simple to rehash our past arguments and, IMHO, the single easiest one to resolve once and for all as I believe it's ironclad how the comics present that. You let me know.

Still Reed + Doom >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanos in this thread.

OneDumbGo, I like how you debate and I think your pretty versed in comics. However, on this one, I have to disagree with you. Not entirely but with some key points. First, it was Thanos who was self angradizing it was Warlock who SPECIFICALLY SAID "You were choosen because of your WILL Titan" That statement makes its clear that NOT EVERYBODY was up to the job. Period. That is undebatable. Whether or not anybody else could have is speculation. What we do know is not all and most couldn't or else there would be no need for such a statement. It further goes on to say he was the man for the job because of his experience with an Ultimate Power. Again, this isn't boasting, this is just Thanos speaking the truth. He's had a ultimate power before correct? Therefore, there isn't anything false or exaggerating going on here. Now, while he was choose and I believe it was meant for him to find it. He was still IMO, the only one, or one of the only ones, able to do the job. Saying he was just boasting and trying to throw out CANON NARRATION for your own purposes and interrupation is unsound and invalid. As you should very well know, there are multiple fallacies occuring when you do that. Point being, some of what your saying is true and facts, however as I pointed out there are parts that are flat wrong.

What sup with all this surveillance crap? The TS states “Thanos is not aware of their plans”.

KuRuPt Thanosi: Well, I appreciate your position. However, let me present a couple of considerations:

1) The "canon narration" is by Thanos, and it does come early on in the storyline. Just by virtue of it being self-narration, that should immediately force you to consider whether or not it is self-aggrandization.
2) At the same time, Thanos attaches the adjective, "seemingly," to "impossible feat," and you can read that to be an absolute qualifier to the entire statement.
3) Later on, he ultimately reveals he was completely set up by TOAA. Taken together, I think it's very reasonable to argue that these circumstances could cast doubt on the earlier self-narration's reliability.

Now, taking all that into consideration, the main reason I think that TOAA's set-up should be doubted for its reliability is because of how 4) Thanos, himself, characterizes the entire ordeal. I've posted his words several times before. He himself does not consider the whole affair to be worthy of any acclaim.

Now, in response to your point about Warlock's statement, the same exact reasoning applies. I do characterize Adam Warlock as someone whose statements should be reliable, all things considered equal. However, here, Thanos outright rejects Adam Warlock's characterization.

Taken altogether, while it's possible Thanos was the only one capable because of his prodigious will, there are too many circumstances that cast that premise into doubt for my tastes. Furthermore, while I have been defending my positions vigorously, I am not discounting Thanos' will completely. He's got plenty of willpower feats absent such circumstances. And neither do I characterize his statement as complete bs'ing. Indeed, I interpreted his use of the phrase "seemingly impossible" as a very deliberate qualifier, i.e., "there's a catch though."