Actually Kang had hundred thousands of soldiers equipped with futuristic weapons and veichles and a space fortress that could obliterate cities in an instant and technology that could also nullify powers of some heroes, not to mention he was using the Earth citizens as meat shield, cause he would have killed them if the heroes didn't surrender.And Kang is a strategist and warrior hundred times better than Osborn.Damn I remember when the Damocle Sword crashed on Earth he came out of the wreckage and challeged the Avengers team to take him down, he could barely walk at all but still was there ready to fight.Now that's attitude.
Originally posted by Alpha CentauriThanks for stating the obvious yet again. I already told you I didn't read what bendis said. How many more times do I have to say I am going by what I read not an insight by the writer?
Characters have nothing if the writers don't give it to them.Bendis explicitly stated opposite to what you're saying.
-AC
Originally posted by DeadlineWell I think you missed the point of what I was trying to say. Yeah Spider-man got bitten and that was lucky and yeah there is always luck.
I don't think these are good arguments because everybody has luck. Spiderman wouldn't be Spiderman if he hadn't been biten by a radioactive spider doesn't mean he doesn't deserve the credit for whats happened afterwards.Hes taking on the whole of marvel earth don't think any supervillain could hold onto it.
What I'm trying to say is that ability wise he has gotten into role based solely on luck and being in the right place at the right time. Yeah some of it was his doing like shooting the queen and getting the Thunderbolts and stuff like that. At the end of the day though he is and has been portrayed, imo, in a position past his ability to do.
Just like Spider-man will admit when he's in fights way past his ability. I mean based on the characters history and as portrayed he isn't even as good a tech maker as Tony stark. He's no where near the threat level as Doom unless he has high powered backing like Doom, Loki, Sentry.
I mean this is how I feel he's been mostly portrayed throughout this whole thing. He seems to be playing solely to his strength of manipulating what is already been set up for him. The registration act, SHIELD, even Ares and Sentry fell into his lap because of the Avengers and what was set up by Tony Stark.
I've enjoyed seeing this train wreck in the making with Osborn at the lead but I just think as shown this is his peak, and I wouldn't mind seeing the character go away for awhile after this, hence retire 😛.
Originally posted by Newjak
Well I think you missed the point of what I was trying to say. Yeah Spider-man got bitten and that was lucky and yeah there is always luck.What I'm trying to say is that ability wise he has gotten into role based solely on luck and being in the right place at the right time. Yeah some of it was his doing like shooting the queen and getting the Thunderbolts and stuff like that. At the end of the day though he is and has been portrayed, imo, in a position past his ability to do.
I honestly don't think I missed the point. Yes but he didn't get into that position solely by luck your own post contradicts what you're saying. From my undertstanding Norman was in the Thunderbolts because he was trying to scheme his way into power. Its not just that you seem to be implying hes not a very good strategist either and thats why things aren't working.
Originally posted by Newjak
Just like Spider-man will admit when he's in fights way past his ability. I mean based on the characters history and as portrayed he isn't even as good a tech maker as Tony stark. He's no where near the threat level as Doom unless he has high powered backing like Doom, Loki, Sentry.I mean this is how I feel he's been mostly portrayed throughout this whole thing. He seems to be playing solely to his strength of manipulating what is already been set up for him. The registration act, SHIELD, even Ares and Sentry fell into his lap because of the Avengers and what was set up by Tony Stark.
I don't think thats really an accurate analysis. Doom needed Norman's help to beat Morgan and Norman in the end helped Doom without Sentry.
Sure he got help from certain people because of luck but its not just about that he has to keep people under control hes also found a serum thats bring out the Void in Sentry and hes done this in secret.
Im not saying no luck was involved but that applies to everything Doom once beat Beyonder but he was only able to do this because he had access to Tau II. Does this mean we take away Dooms credit? No becuase he had to be smart enough to understand Tau II. What about when Doom conquered the earth wasn't he able to only do this with Purple mans help. What about Red Skull killing Cap he needed help from Doom and Faustus.
Another point to make is no supervillain holds onto power both Doom and Kang conquered earth but only temporary. At the end of the day luck was involved but he did very well to keep onto and keep it together for that long.
I think the whole thing has displayed Norman's ability to pull pieces together and manipulate what's set up to his advantage. I don't think he could have done it from the ground up, but I also don't think that there will be any point in comic history where there aren't a hundred loose strings floating around that could be manipulated by somebody like him. Maybe not on this level, but that's all up to the writer.
Originally posted by Deadline
I honestly don't think I missed the point. Yes but he didn't get into that position solely by luck your own post contradicts what you're saying. From my undertstanding Norman was in the Thunderbolts because he was trying to scheme his way into power. Its not just that you seem to be implying hes not a very good strategist either and thats why things aren't working.I don't think thats really an accurate analysis. Doom needed Norman's help to beat Morgan and Norman in the end helped Doom without Sentry.
Sure he got help from certain people because of luck but its not just about that he has to keep people under control hes also found a serum thats bring out the Void in Sentry and hes done this in secret.
Im not saying no luck was involved but that applies to everything Doom once beat Beyonder but he was only able to do this because he had access to Tau II. Does this mean we take away Dooms credit? No becuase he had to be smart enough to understand Tau II. What about when Doom conquered the earth wasn't he able to only do this with Purple mans help. What about Red Skull killing Cap he needed help from Doom and Faustus.
Another point to make is no supervillain holds onto power both Doom and Kang conquered earth but only temporary. At the end of the day luck was involved but he did very well to keep onto and keep it together for that long.
Doom is consistently at the heart of things like that, though. It's not luck, he's an extremely powerful man considering that he has no powers to truly speak of.
Norman Osborn didn't get "lucky" at all, he planned this to perfection, but he's no Doom. Proof if it were ever needed is the fact that Loki is manipulating Osborn, not Doom. Doom is way less likely to be puppeted because he's a way grander villain.
I do agree with the idea that Osborn, post-Siege, should be a very high opposite to what he is now. Directing A.I.M. or Hydra, something like that.
-AC
Originally posted by Alpha CentauriOsborn is completely insane though. I think Loki is taking advantage of that fact, but we already have seen his green goblin persona discuss Loki and how he's an altogether liar. It's in Loki's nature but we have been seeing Osborn deterioration as time has progressed as he can't stop listening to his own inner voices and it has culminated in to this.
Doom is consistently at the heart of things like that, though. It's not luck, he's an extremely powerful man considering that he has no powers to truly speak of.Norman Osborn didn't get "lucky" at all, he planned this to perfection, but he's no Doom. Proof if it were ever needed is the fact that Loki is manipulating Osborn, not Doom. Doom is way less likely to be puppeted because he's a way grander villain.
I do agree with the idea that Osborn, post-Siege, should be a very high opposite to what he is now. Directing A.I.M. or Hydra, something like that.
-AC
Originally posted by Warlord
I doubt it will end like this
all this development just to kill him
Redeeming him would be a waste of time. They've already redeemed Marvel Boy/Captain Marvel due to his time with the Dark Avengers. Ares redeemed himself in death. And I think Daken is attempting to do something similar (I don't really follow Wolverine or the X-Titles). I think the whole point for unleashing Void/Sentry is for Bendis to cement the fact that's beyond the point of redemption. Of course, you could argue that it's not Bob's fault and he's just an addict who couldn't help himself, but having Bob heroically turn things around and die a hero ala Vader in ROTJ would be cliche and tired as hell.
I suspect he'll either die, be BFRed to some place he can't cause much damage, or be depowered. I doubt Sentry is going to hang around after Seige and be all "Sup, guys? Can I Avenge stuff too, now?" with the rest of the heroes.
Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Redeeming him would be a waste of time. They've already redeemed Marvel Boy/Captain Marvel due to his time with the Dark Avengers. Ares redeemed himself in death. And I think Daken is attempting to do something similar (I don't really follow Wolverine or the X-Titles). I think the whole point for unleashing Void/Sentry is for Bendis to cement the fact that's beyond the point of redemption. Of course, you could argue that it's not Bob's fault and he's just an addict who couldn't help himself, but having Bob heroically turn things around and die a hero ala Vader in ROTJ would be cliche and tired as hell.I suspect he'll either die, be BFRed to some place he can't cause much damage, or be depowered. I doubt Sentry is going to hang around after Seige and be all "Sup, guys? Can I Avenge stuff too, now?" with the rest of the heroes.
I wouldn't mind him splitting in two