Originally posted by leonidasOnly cuz he has hair: long, flowing, envy-of-every-California-girl hair.
...winged helmet and sweet looking ancient norse hammer > silver skivies. i knew if i thought long enough i'd come up with an argument you couldn't counter that clearly proves thor > ss!! nwoot
Originally posted by -Pr-Oddly, SS seems to do more speedskater or skiier posing than surfer posing.
surfer is one of the best vanilla posers in comics, though so is superman imo.
Originally posted by -Pr-
i stated why i disagreed in my earlier post.i don't believe that being more versatile means you're superior.
i might have 99 ways to put someone down, but if it only takes 1, then 98 of them are not much use to me.
simplicity is not a bad thing by any means.
But if i have the 1 way, as well as 99 other ways, i am superior.
You're right, 99% of the time in comics, a punch will do.
But should you come up against a guy who doesn't blink at physical force, having the 99 other options means i have a higher chance to succeed where 1 trick guy fails.
And that means i am superior.
Its why the Surfer vs Stardust debate is back and forth, whereas with Superman its pretty much written in stone.
There is nothing that Superman has done that Surfer couldn't likely replicate, but the reverse can't be said for Superman.
Originally posted by Juntai
It's obviously more in character against top level opponents to end up in close quarters. I could post scans of him running into punches left and right and right clear down an entire page like I did in the Surfer vs Superman thread a year or so ago that drew a lot of criticism if I had to.Disabling ships isn't quite the same as using combat tactics efficiently against very powerful opponent[s].
But like PR is suggesting, we'll get nowhere trying to convince you of anything in this particular debate involving Surfer, or any debate involving Surfer for that matter. I even recall just recently you debating the Surfer vs Thor for a dozen pages with clear scans of Thor rocking Surfer left and right with little difficulty, while Surfer had help. lol.
Was the multiple opponents in your example particularly powerful or something?
So you're going to imply bias on my part when you're only willing to ignore PIS in regards to Superman 😂 .
Originally posted by darthgooberI already acknowledged both Superman's application of accepting blows because he can and dodging blows because he can. Both are fully written into his character on panel with specific regards to them.
And I could do the same for Superman or the Flash, but you'd still likely say that guys like Hulk and Juggernaut couldn't touch them. Why? Because regardless of the frequency of it happening Supes and Flash not using their powers as effectively as they should constitutes PIS.Was the multiple opponents in your example particularly powerful or something?
So you're going to imply bias on my part when you're only willing to ignore PIS in regards to Superman 😂 .
I like how you say I 'probably would' say something, then follow it up with something about ignoring PIS, as if I'd ignored anything, except in your fabricated scenario there. Especially a couple of posts after I've already dealt with this exact issue head on.
Keep trying to attack me personally though, instead of talking about the characters, because it's obviously your best approach. I'm totally on my heels now.
You're just getting personal because you as well realise that 9 times out of 10, this is going to end in close quarters, and more often than not, Superman is going to pummell him when that happens.
Originally posted by Juntai
I already acknowledged both Superman's application of accepting blows because he can and dodging blows because he can. Both are fully written into his character on panel with specific regards to them.I like how you say I 'probably would' say something, then follow it up with something about ignoring PIS, as if I'd ignored anything, except in your fabricated scenario there. Especially a couple of posts after I've already dealt with this exact issue head on.
Keep trying to attack me personally though, instead of talking about the characters, because it's obviously your best approach. I'm totally on my heels now.
You're just getting personal because you as well realise that 9 times out of 10, this is going to end in close quarters, and more often than not, Superman is going to pummell him when that happens.
Now if you're honestly of the opinion that someone like Hulk or Juggernaut would tag Supes as much in a forum fight as much as Supes would tag them then my bad, but I'm willing to bet that I could do a search and find posts where you say the opposite.
You're the one who started getting personal here, don't get huffy just because I reciprocated. And if you're honestly of the opinion that Supes beats Surfer 9 /10 in a no weakness exploitation scenario then I'd love to see you step up and put your money where your mouth is...
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f105/t519660.html
But I'm willing to bet that you won't... just like none of Supes's other fans will. Why? Because once I prove that Surfer beats Supes without exploiting his weaknesses it means that he absolutely stomps in a fight that features them.
Originally posted by darthgooberI didn't suggest Superman wins 9 out 10, I said 9 out ten times they will end up in close quarters, and 'more often than not' out of those times, will end in Surfer getting physically overpowered.
And both are fully written into Surfer's character. What's more, my example didn't JUST mention Supes, it also mentioned Flash. You know, the guy who's specifically mentioned in the forum rules? Regardless of how many times Flash fights like a moron at sub sonic speeds and gets tagged, it's considered PIS... so consistency is not an issue.Now if you're honestly of the opinion that someone like Hulk or Juggernaut would tag Supes as much in a forum fight as much as Supes would tag them then my bad, but I'm willing to bet that I could do a search and find posts where you say the opposite.
You're the one who started getting personal here, don't get huffy just because I reciprocated. And if you're honestly of the opinion that Supes beats Surfer 9 /10 in a no weakness exploitation scenario then I'd love to see you step up and put your money where your mouth is...
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f105/t519660.html
But I'm willing to bet that you won't... just like none of Supes's other fans will. Why? Because once I prove that Surfer beats Supes without exploiting his weaknesses it means that he absolutely stomps in a fight that features them.
Surfer ends up in close quarters with Lunatik, pummeled.
http://img244.imageshack.us/img244/3108/mcp17308rv2.jpg
http://img162.imageshack.us/i/mcp17309et4.jpg/
Surfer gets close quarters with Thanos, pummeled.
http://img227.imageshack.us/img227/4231/surfer11tn.jpg
Close quarters with Thanos again, pummeled.
http://img224.imageshack.us/i/surfer34as.jpg/
Ends up close quarters with Thor, one of a few times in this arc alone, pummeled.
http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e156/marvelkris/Thor%20comics/WarlockInfinity-23-17.jpg
And that's just ones from the last few minutes of searching. I know there's similar situations with Drax and others I could find with little difficulty most likely.
So again, against top tier characters, Surfer tends to manage to get close, Superman will also be actively trying to close this gap as well, and he's right up in speed with Surfer, and is much more likely to use it in direct combat as history shows.
And again, Superman gets to amp in this fight.
He's exponentially faster, stronger, more durable, etc etc etc.
But, if you feel Surfer is going to run away and evade an amped Superman the whole time and wear him down with blasts, we just have to disagree, which is what I was saying before, I won't be able to convince you of much regarding Surfer.
Originally posted by UniOmni
Nonsense.
Lets look at your original spill:
Originally posted by UniOmni
DC = Superman is top dom. Nothing wrong with that belief, since the comics support that notion. Superman is on a team that has included beings that can create quasars, "heavens ladder", fast forward time for entire celestial bodies, contain big bangs, hold planets, etc and yet, he's still considered the most powerful being on earth.With hv, icebreath, superspeed and punches in bunches. I don't get the logic(hint-there is none to be found:<😉 but thats DC editorials line and they maintain it.
So basically you can't understand why Superman is top dog when others have more powers.
Now if you actually read some comics instead of searching forums for scans of powaz and training for you battle board mentality, you might actually find that:
* Superman is a classic character
* Superman is a popular character
* Superman is a hero
* You can be a hero with 1 power or 100 powers
* You can be a hero a be more/less powerful than others
* Heroes in times of adversity can/will do things they otherwise would/could not - classic comic book tradition
* Comics were not created with the intent of pleasing battle board whiners
* No one gives a sh!t about powaz
Cry more.
Originally posted by Juntai
I didn't suggest Superman wins 9 out 10, I said 9 out ten times they will end up in close quarters, and 'more often than not' out of those times, will end in Surfer getting physically overpowered.Surfer ends up in close quarters with Lunatik, pummeled.
http://img244.imageshack.us/img244/3108/mcp17308rv2.jpg
http://img162.imageshack.us/i/mcp17309et4.jpg/Surfer gets close quarters with Thanos, pummeled.
http://img227.imageshack.us/img227/4231/surfer11tn.jpgClose quarters with Thanos again, pummeled.
http://img224.imageshack.us/i/surfer34as.jpg/Ends up close quarters with Thor, one of a few times in this arc alone, pummeled.
http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e156/marvelkris/Thor%20comics/WarlockInfinity-23-17.jpgAnd that's just ones from the last few minutes of searching. I know there's similar situations with Drax and others I could find with little difficulty most likely.
So again, against top tier characters, Surfer tends to manage to get close, Superman will also be actively trying to close this gap as well, and he's right up in speed with Surfer, and is much more likely to use it in direct combat as history shows.
And again, Superman gets to amp in this fight.
He's exponentially faster, stronger, more durable, etc etc etc.
But, if you feel Surfer is going to run away and evade an amped Superman the whole time and wear him down with blasts, we just have to disagree, which is what I was saying before, I won't be able to convince you of much regarding Surfer.
Well you don't have to argue for him to win 9/10 in the BZ, just argue for him to take the majority. So, you up for it?
And if I looked through 10 Flash comics at random, he'd probably fight at sub light(and maybe even sonic) speeds in 7 of them. But the rules still say that his fights lasting longer than 3 panels constitutes PIS. So regardless of it's frequency, if a character refrains from using tactics that would guarantee the win for no apparent reason it's PIS. And in regards to your first example, it's not a good one. See Surfer only "ended up in close quarters" because he was distracted by Skreet. He did voluntarily go into strait h2h with Lunatik later on, but the instance you posted doesn't support your stance.... not to mention that when Surfer DID voluntarily go h2h with Lunatik, Lunatik couldn't land a shot while Surfer was pummeling him for a minute. And when Surfer realized that they were too evenly matched in the same fight, he won by stranding Lunatik on the planet via transmutation and leaving. So yeah, bad example all around.
See there are two kinds of CIS, being genuinely stupid like the Rhino or Absorbing Man and CIP(character inhibited power) which applies in scenario's where there are things like civilians present. What you're talking about(characters not using their powers effectively even though they've shown the ability and inclination to do so in the past) falls under the category of PIS. You're trying to alter the definition of CIS to suit your argument but debates don't work that way.
I know he can amp in this fight just like I know Surfer can exploit his weaknesses in this fight, our discussion isn't actually about this particular thread because you jumped in on a discussion I was having with pr that involved circumstances outside the thread.
You'd be hard pressed to prove that he's faster or more durable.
There's a difference between keeping your distance to use your ranged advantage and running away.
Originally posted by Kris Blaze
Surfer also dropped Durok in the future, when he and Thor failed to beat him.
since amping is an option for supes, IF this battle resorted to a close quarters brawl, and IF supes had a sun-amp, i believe he would dominate surfer.
i think many people are forgetting that a pissed off supes damn near tore darkseid in half, when he was merely within close vicinity of the sun:
http://img22.imageshack.us/img22/5468/12176682.jpg
http://img21.imageshack.us/img21/7929/90013468.jpg
http://img130.imageshack.us/img130/3678/92905745.jpg
http://img690.imageshack.us/img690/7660/40098164.jpg
[and that wasn't even a 'true'/OWAW sundip.]
i can't fathom surfer fairing well against THAT kind of onslaught. *shrugs*
Originally posted by Galan007
since amping is an option for supes, IF this battle resorted to a close quarters brawl, and IF supes had a sun-amp, i believe he would dominate surfer.i think many people are forgetting that a pissed off supes damn near tore darkseid in half, when he was merely within close vicinity of the sun:
http://img22.imageshack.us/img22/5468/12176682.jpg
http://img21.imageshack.us/img21/7929/90013468.jpg
http://img130.imageshack.us/img130/3678/92905745.jpg
http://img690.imageshack.us/img690/7660/40098164.jpg...and that wasn't even a 'true'/OWAW sundip.
i can't fathom surfer fairing well against THAT kind of onslaught. *shrugs*
