Star Wars vs Star Trek, Lord of the Rings and Battlestar Galactica

Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall
The Star Forge could help create an army of Sun Crushers, which could destroy the Borg planets.

And what about the Force? I doubt that the Borg could even understand that.

So if you're allowed to mix technologies then I presume that ST species and time frames are also allowed?

And how long would it take the sun crushers to be deployed across the galaxy?

Besides their effect is only equatable to that of the trilithium torpedo which 1 man was able to make and launch from a home made launcher.

So the sun crusher, which is supposedly one of Star Wars most powerful weapons of mass destruction is only as powerful as a single man's home made weapon in Star Trek.

Not to mention that the sun crusher can only destroy being on planets around stars and is completely useless against ships which can fly away from the path of destruction anyway...Given that the Borg central nexus exists outwith a planet and on it's own contains billions of vessels and trillions of drones, not including those of the rest of the Borg fleet then I guess the sun crusher wouldn't really kill all that many Borg.

Besides, the star forge was destroyed by ancient shitty old turbolasers. Unless the turbolasers were nearly as powerful as later ships were in which case we then know that SW advanced very little in 4000 years...Making them look even more useless and shitty and unable to adapt.

Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall
Then how was the Federation able to fight off the Borg?

It's been told to you over and over. Plot-driven stupidity is the main reason. But when they've been successful, it's mostly been through out-thinking.

Though the Federation has never been in a situation when the entire Borg collective was attacking them, as it would be here on Star Wars, this is also going on the notion that it's just the Borg vs Star Wars, when it isn't.

Originally posted by jaden101
`The force would appear to exist only in the main SW galaxy seeing as the main species from outwith the SW galaxy existed outwith the force. The Yuuzhan Vong.

Speculation. The YV may have been an exception.

So if you're allowed to mix technologies then I presume that ST species and time frames are also allowed?

I suppose

And how long would it take the sun crushers to be deployed across the galaxy?

I'm not sure. That Empire research facility in the Maw developed one in at most 30 years, and most of that time was probably spent figuring out how to build one. After knowing how to build one, it shouldn't be that hard when using the Star Forge.

Besides their effect is only equatable to that of the trilithium torpedo which 1 man was able to make and launch from a home made launcher.

So the sun crusher, which is supposedly one of Star Wars most powerful weapons of mass destruction is only as powerful as a single man's home made weapon in Star Trek.

I predict that this single man is not some average person.

Not to mention that the sun crusher can only destroy being on planets around stars and is completely useless against ships which can fly away from the path of destruction anyway...Given that the Borg central nexus exists outwith a planet and on it's own contains billions of vessels and trillions of drones, not including those of the rest of the Borg fleet then I guess the sun crusher wouldn't really kill all that many Borg.

[quote]

Without planets the Borg fleets would be left in space unsupported and with only the fuel they had at the moment.

[quote]

Besides, the star forge was destroyed by ancient shitty old turbolasers. Unless the turbolasers were nearly as powerful as later ships were in which case we then know that SW advanced very little in 4000 years...Making them look even more useless and shitty and unable to adapt. ]

"shitty old turbolasers" still > Star Trek phaser weapons.

Speculation. The YV may have been an exception.

Isn't speculation the entire point about these things?

You base it on what you know. The Vong were from outwith the galaxy and had no connection to or were almost invulnerable to the force.

ST species would also be from outwith the SW galaxy. There is nothing equivalent to the force in the ST galaxy and thus it is reasonable to assume they also have no connection to the force in a similar way to the Vong.

I suppose

So that means I can outfit a Borg cube with Species 8472 energy weapons and a Krenim temporal core making it exist outwith space time and thus be invulnerable to energy or direct weapons. I can outfit it with the Reman thaeleron radiation superweapon and perfect cloaking technology making it undetectable. Give it chroniton and transphasic weapons. We'll also give it the ability that the delta flyer had in Voyager when it hit infinite velocity and so could travel anywhere in the universe instantly. Stick a few multi kinetic neutronic mines on there for a laugh as well too.

We'll call that a severe rape then.

I'm not sure. That Empire research facility in the Maw developed one in at most 30 years, and most of that time was probably spent figuring out how to build one. After knowing how to build one, it shouldn't be that hard when using the Star Forge.

I'm not asking how long it would take to make or build one. I'm asking how long it would take one to travel across the galaxy?

I predict that this single man is not some average person

He was a scientist but not noted for being particularly brilliant.

"shitty old turbolasers" still > Star Trek phaser weapons.

Your continual repetition of it doesn't make it true, regardless of how much you want it to be.

Let me repeat myself in dummy terms so you can understand.

Here's your figures from the start of the thread.

Aclamator reactor power = 200 trillion GW
Enterprise D reactor power = 4 billion GW

Now I can only presume you got the SW figure right so we'll work with that but i'll correct you on the enterprise D figure.

The Acclamator (presumably II)class has a total output from its reactor of 200 trillion gigawatts of power.

The enterprise D doesn't have a total power output of 4 billion gigawatts...It actually puts out 12.75 billion gigawatts PER SECOND.

So the enterprise would actually put out more power in 4 and a half hours than an Acclamator class could put out in total in it's entire life.

If we move only a few years further on in the ST time line then Voyager actually used an order of magnitude above gigawatts in power output and even diverted terrawatts of energy to its sensor array (indicating that level of power is generally not considered a lot)

Lets also not forget the fact that an acclamator class is an assault ship...The enterprise D is a science and exploration ship not designed for war.

Lets also not forget that the Acclamator class was the peak ship in terms of power when it was introduced...The enterprise, on the other hand, paled in insignificance compared to the power of other species ships across the galaxy.

In investigating this further I also found something else out. I've already shown by canon figures and by comparison to real world weapons that a standard photon torpedo was over 20 times more powerful than the tsar bomba...The most powerful nuclear weapon ever detonated on earth.

Well...Did you know that the tsar bomba put out energy on the scale of Yottawatts. 5.3 yottawatts to be precise.

A yottawatt is 10^24 watts...A gigawatt (which is the order of magnitude of SW turbo lasers) is 10^9 watts. That is 5 orders of magnitude below a standard photon torpedo.

At 20 times the power of the tsar bomba, a photon torpedo would give out 40.6x10^24 watts

To give you an idea of how relatively weak an Acclamator is with it's 200 trillion gigawatts power output. There is a machine in existance on earth today called the Z-machine, which is an x-ray generator, that can produce 290,000 gigawatts in a billionth of a second.

So that means in a millionth of a second it could produce 290 million gigawatts and in a thousandth of a second could produce 290 billion gigawatts and so in a second could produce 290 trillion gigawatts.

So it can produce more energy in a second than an Acclamator produces in total.

Originally posted by jaden101
[B]Isn't speculation the entire point about these things?

You base it on what you know. The Vong were from outwith the galaxy and had no connection to or were almost invulnerable to the force.

Yet, say, the Federation is made up of humans.

ST species would also be from outwith the SW galaxy. There is nothing equivalent to the force in the ST galaxy and thus it is reasonable to assume they also have no connection to the force in a similar way to the Vong.

Not necessarily. I don't see how the Force would somehow be contained within a single galaxy.

So that means I can outfit a Borg cube with Species 8472 energy weapons and a Krenim temporal core making it exist outwith space time and thus be invulnerable to energy or direct weapons. I can outfit it with the Reman thaeleron radiation superweapon and perfect cloaking technology making it undetectable. Give it chroniton and transphasic weapons. We'll also give it the ability that the delta flyer had in Voyager when it hit infinite velocity and so could travel anywhere in the universe instantly. Stick a few multi kinetic neutronic mines on there for a laugh as well too.

We'll call that a severe rape then.

Except that to figure out a way to put all that stuff together would take quite a while.

By that logic, Sun Crusher + knowledge of Sun Crusher = army of Sun Crushers that obliterates the Borg planets.

I'm not asking how long it would take to make or build one. I'm asking how long it would take one to travel across the galaxy?

It isn't specified, but by that era hyperdrive was advanced enough so that it probably wouldn't take any more than a few hours.

He was a scientist but not noted for being particularly brilliant.

And what supplies did he have?

Your continual repetition of it doesn't make it true, regardless of how much you want it to be.

Let me repeat myself in dummy terms so you can understand.

Here's your figures from the start of the thread.

Now I can only presume you got the SW figure right so we'll work with that but i'll correct you on the enterprise D figure.

The Acclamator (presumably II)class has a total output from its reactor of 200 trillion gigawatts of power.

The enterprise D doesn't have a total power output of 4 billion gigawatts...It actually puts out 12.75 billion gigawatts PER SECOND.

So the enterprise would actually put out more power in 4 and a half hours than an Acclamator class could put out in total in it's entire life.

If we move only a few years further on in the ST time line then Voyager actually used an order of magnitude above gigawatts in power output and even diverted terrawatts of energy to its sensor array (indicating that level of power is generally not considered a lot)

Lets also not forget the fact that an acclamator class is an assault ship...The enterprise D is a science and exploration ship not designed for war.

Lets also not forget that the Acclamator class was the peak ship in terms of power when it was introduced...The enterprise, on the other hand, paled in insignificance compared to the power of other species ships across the galaxy.

In investigating this further I also found something else out. I've already shown by canon figures and by comparison to real world weapons that a standard photon torpedo was over 20 times more powerful than the tsar bomba...The most powerful nuclear weapon ever detonated on earth.

Well...Did you know that the tsar bomba put out energy on the scale of Yottawatts. 5.3 yottawatts to be precise.

A yottawatt is 10^24 watts...A gigawatt (which is the order of magnitude of SW turbo lasers) is 10^9 watts. That is 5 orders of magnitude below a standard photon torpedo.

At 20 times the power of the tsar bomba, a photon torpedo would give out 40.6x10^24 watts

To give you an idea of how relatively weak an Acclamator is with it's 200 trillion gigawatts power output. There is a machine in existance on earth today called the Z-machine, which is an x-ray generator, that can produce 290,000 gigawatts in a billionth of a second.

So that means in a millionth of a second it could produce 290 million gigawatts and in a thousandth of a second could produce 290 billion gigawatts and so in a second could produce 290 trillion gigawatts.

So it can produce more energy in a second than an Acclamator produces in total.

You do realize that those Enterprise figures were from canon sources, right?

I have a question, The Empire has Stardestroyers in the 10's of thousands, correct?

Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall

You do realize that those Enterprise figures were from canon sources, right?

Post it?

Star Trek Next Generation Technical Manual (TNG TM)

Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall
Star Trek Next Generation Technical Manual (TNG TM)

Can you post a link, because Memory-Alpha.org supports Jaden's 12.5 output claim, even notes the ST:TNG episode it was mentioned in.

Oh, how many Stardestroyers, they number in the 10-thousands range, no?

Yet, say, the Federation is made up of humans.

No it's not. You saying this shows your complete ignorance of ST and so nothing else you say has any validity in this debate anymore.

Not necessarily. I don't see how the Force would somehow be contained within a single galaxy.

Yet from Star Wars canon it seems to be just that.

Except that to figure out a way to put all that stuff together would take quite a while. By that logic, Sun Crusher + knowledge of Sun Crusher = army of Sun Crushers that obliterates the Borg planets.

Why would it take a while? You just instantly combined 2 technologies not just from 2 different species within star wars but from 2 completely different eras. Why don't I get to do the same with Trek technology? Why does my combination have to take a while to put together but yours gets done instantly?

It isn't specified, but by that era hyperdrive was advanced enough so that it probably wouldn't take any more than a few hours.

You're even showing ignorance of Star Wars now. The fastest ships in starwars could take days to traverse the galaxy.

Now...Once again...Is this as fast as transwarp?...No

And what supplies did he have?

Some trilithium which was stolen for him by Romulans.

You do realize that those Enterprise figures were from canon sources, right?

What's considered higher canon?...A book about star trek (next gen tech manual) or the episodes themselves with figures actually spoken on screen by characters?

Also you need to consider that the figures were from a book published in 1991. The next generation series lasted until 1994 and so anything in the series after the publication of the book instantly becomes higher level canon as they are newer figures and they are on screen (which is the highest form of canon).

Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall
Star Trek Next Generation Technical Manual (TNG TM)

Like I said. A book published in 1991...Next gen went on til 1994 (scary to think it finished 16 years ago)

So no...Your figures are not valid. They are outdated and superseded by figures in the same show after publication as well as everything mentioned in DS9 and Voyager.

Originally posted by jaden101
No it's not. You saying this shows your complete ignorance of ST and so nothing else you say has any validity in this debate anymore.

1. Ok, largely human.
2. This version of premise to conclusion logic is so hilarious, no offense, that it reminds me of immature fanboys. "and so nothing else you say has any validity in this debate anymore"? ROTL

Yet from Star Wars canon it seems to be just that.

No it does not.

Why would it take a while? You just instantly combined 2 technologies not just from 2 different species within star wars but from 2 completely different eras. Why don't I get to do the same with Trek technology? Why does my combination have to take a while to put together but yours gets done instantly?

Did I say that mine gets done instantly?

You're even showing ignorance of Star Wars now. The fastest ships in starwars could take days to traverse the galaxy.

Now...Once again...Is this as fast as transwarp?...No

Wrong, Star Wars hyperdrive is fast enough to cross the Star Wars galaxy in a few hours.

Some trilithium which was stolen for him by Romulans.

Good for him then.

What's considered higher canon?...A book about star trek (next gen tech manual) or the episodes themselves with figures actually spoken on screen by characters?

Also you need to consider that the figures were from a book published in 1991. The next generation series lasted until 1994 and so anything in the series after the publication of the book instantly becomes higher level canon as they are newer figures and they are on screen (which is the highest form of canon).

Actually, the book since the characters are fallible.

Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall
Actually, the book since the characters are fallible.

Scraping the barrel.

Please answer honestly, how much Star Trek have you watched and read-up on?

Shows:

Movies:

Books:

Various internet pages:

No it does not.

So prove me wrong.

Did I say that mine gets done instantly?

Yes, you did.

Wrong, Star Wars hyperdrive is fast enough to cross the Star Wars galaxy in a few hours.

Only the absolute fastest ships in starwars come close to doing it in a few hours...Is the sun crusher the fastest ship in star wars?...In many cases it took days or longer.

Still...Even if it was hours...Is this faster than transwarp?...No.

Actually, the book since the characters are fallible.

😆 😆 😆 😆 😆

So you regard books as a higher level canon than the shows themselves.

Robtard said you were scraping the barrel to try and win this debate before but now you really are getting utterly desperate.

I think it's about time you gave this one up before you embarrass yourself (even though you've done that already).

Originally posted by jaden101
So prove me wrong.

You made the claim. You haven't proven it.

Yes, you did.

Where?

Only the absolute fastest ships in starwars come close to doing it in a few hours...Is the sun crusher the fastest ship in star wars?...In many cases it took days or longer.

Still...Even if it was hours...Is this faster than transwarp?...No.

Show me an example of a Star Wars ship taking days.

😆 😆 😆 😆 😆

So you regard books as a higher level canon than the shows themselves.

Robtard said you were scraping the barrel to try and win this debate before but now you really are getting utterly desperate.

I think it's about time you gave this one up before you embarrass yourself (even though you've done that already).

You don't get it, do you?

The characters in the show are not all knowing. The Borg say "resistance is futile", but they're obviously wrong in many occasions.

You made the claim. You haven't proven it.

I've shown that a species from outside the SW galaxy aren't part of or affected by the force. Your job is to show that species from outside of the star wars galaxy are part of and affected by the force. This is how these things work.

Where?

In your 1st post mentioning combining the technologies.

Show me an example of a Star Wars ship taking days.

In the Thrawn trilogy, Luke regularly went into a force induced sleep so as to pass the time it took for his ship to hyperspace travel across the galaxy.

You don't get it, do you? The characters in the show are not all knowing. The Borg say "resistance is futile", but they're obviously wrong in many occasions.

Let me give you a lesson in how time works.

A book is printed on the basis of what the episode writers have given them. If they pass on this info at the beginning of a series (1989) and a book is published later on (1991) and then the writers of new episodes made later than 1991 put in different and newer figures for more powerful ships then these episodes are higher canon than the old book.

Your argument now seems to be based on the premise that noone in Star Trek is ever right with regards to the power of their ships and weapons ever.

Nice argument you've got there.

Originally posted by jaden101
I've shown that a species from outside the SW galaxy aren't part of or affected by the force. Your job is to show that species from outside of the star wars galaxy are part of and affected by the force. This is how these things work.

"species from outside the SW galaxy"

Star Trek has humans, whom are based on our knowledge the same humans from Star Wars; they both have the same biological characteristics.

In your 1st post mentioning combining the technologies.

I did not say it would be instant.

In the Thrawn trilogy, Luke regularly went into a force induced sleep so as to pass the time it took for his ship to hyperspace travel across the galaxy.

What ship was he in?

Let me give you a lesson in how time works.

A book is printed on the basis of what the episode writers have given them. If they pass on this info at the beginning of a series (1989) and a book is published later on (1991) and then the writers of new episodes made later than 1991 put in different and newer figures for more powerful ships then these episodes are higher canon than the old book.

Your argument now seems to be based on the premise that noone in Star Trek is ever right with regards to the power of their ships and weapons ever.

Nice argument you've got there.

Give me an example of a definitive contradiction of the Star Trek Next Generation Technical Manual (TNG TM).

"species from outside the SW galaxy" Star Trek has humans, whom are based on our knowledge the same humans from Star Wars; they both have the same biological characteristics.

Nobody in Star Trek has ever been affected by or utilised the force for anything.

Way to prove my point.

I was actually trying to get you to talk about species within Star Wars that are from outwith the main galaxy that use or are connected to the force.

What ship was he in?

His own. Cant remember what class it was though but it was just him and R2.

Give me an example of a definitive contradiction of the Star Trek Next Generation Technical Manual (TNG TM).

I already have. Many of them.

1 being your insistence that the enterprise D can on generate a total output of 4 billion gigawatts when a later episode of next generation shows that the enterprise D can generate 12.75 billion gigawatts per second.

Originally posted by jaden101
Nobody in Star Trek has ever been affected by or utilised the force for anything.

Way to prove my point.

That doesn't mean that they wouldn't be affected by Jedi.

I was actually trying to get you to talk about species within Star Wars that are from outwith the main galaxy that use or are connected to the force.

Yet humans are in Star Trek.

His own. Cant remember what class it was though but it was just him and R2.

How does him going into a Force healing trance or something show anything about the speed of his ship?

I already have. Many of them.

1 being your insistence that the enterprise D can on generate a total output of 4 billion gigawatts when a later episode of next generation shows that the enterprise D can generate 12.75 billion gigawatts per second.

Who stated this?

That doesn't mean that they wouldn't be affected by Jedi.

If you're going to state that they are then you have to prove it. I've based my argument on things that have actually happened in Star Wars.

Yet humans are in Star Trek.

Clearly written as such so to identify the viewer certain characters.

You have to prove that the humans from star trek would be affected by the force with evidence.

And we both know you can't.

How does him going into a Force healing trance or something show anything about the speed of his ship?

His ship was travelling in hyperspace for days yet was still in the same galaxy and had in fact not travelled that far.

He went into the trance to pass the time.

Who stated this?

Georgi La Forge in the episode "True Q"

Originally posted by Robtard

Oh, how many Stardestroyers, they number in the 10-thousands range, no?

???????????