Star Wars vs Star Trek, Lord of the Rings and Battlestar Galactica

Started by Hewhoknowsall47 pages

Originally posted by jaden101
How does 1 hit completely obliterating the entire command bridge (the sticky up bit on a star destroyer) equate to it being able to take many hits?

Its shields were down.

Explain to me why in Star Trek ramming is an effective tactic.

Your wattage to megatons translation is completely off...So it's either 1 or the other. At least get your stats right before using them otherwise shifting the goalposts makes the entire debate unworkable.

These are canon stats. Like it or not, 2.4 million megatons is far more powerful than 1160 megatons.

Yet the tsar bombs gave out yottawatts of energy compared to your gigawatts of energy.

See in inconsistencies of your argument?

The LIGHT turbolasers were hundreds of millions of gigawatts (note that the magnitude difference between the different watt levels is by a factor of 1000, so hundreds of millions would exceed that). The heavy turbolasers would be far more.

You're still dodging the point. 2.4 million megatons vs 1160 megatons.

How would they not?

Stupid argument.

Again.

"How would they not" - I don't have to prove a negative. You made the claim that those bioships would destroy Star Wars starfighters. You have to prove it.

No...It was a real black hole...And no...It wasn't the small black hole that destroyed Vulcan that they escaped from...It was the massive black hole caused by the entire amount of red matter.

You're arguing with what was seen on screen...The 1st and extremely inferior enterprise withstood being within a few hundred feet of a black hole...fact.

Yet this has nothing to do with shields, since no amount of shielding can stop a black hole.

They drained them at a % so the initial starting point would be irrelevant.

That's an impossibility. They can't simply drain them at a %. They would have to drain them at a certain rate. Otherwise, why drain 50% of a 2 gigawatt shield when you're capable of draining 50% of a 200 gigawatt shield, which would be enough to easily drain a 2 gigawatt shield?

Good for them.

Yep.

The Borg alone have billions of worlds...They occupy 1/10th of the galaxy. They've created a massively larger fleet of far larger ships...This requires a larger infrastructure....Fact.

Huh? You changed it from "millions" to "billions"?

I've already shown that fleet numbers do not equate to industrial might.

Oh, and your "omg they occupy 1/10th of the galaxy!" claim is bogus. Star Wars civilization by the PT has not only occupied pretty much every inhabitable planet, but has also mapped out every star system in the galaxy. Obviously Star Trek hasn't done this since the Enterprise still has the objective of discovering new life.

The Borg's nanotechnolgy would easily deal with buzzdroids.

The Borg also don't have trouble adapting to projectile weaponry as they adapted to torpedos easily enough (which are projectiles until they impact but are stopped by shields)

Besides...The borg would easily assimilate a buzz droid and know how to counter them pretty much instantly.

LOL classic Trekkie arguments, using fancy terms such as "nanotechnology" without explaining how nanotechnology is supposed to deal with buzz droids.

Even Star Wars starfighters are actually far more powerful than regular Federation starships from Star Trek.

A borg cube trying to attack a Star Wars star destroyer would get attacked by starfighters from a very far distance.

Hahaha....No...If a reactor is said to produce a certain amount of energy without a time factor then that's its total energy output. Not at any instant....Nice try.

200 trillion gigawatts vs 15 billion gigawatts. The former is higher than the latter. Star Wars Star destroyers have FAR more powerful reactors than Star Trek starship.

Drafted and then what?...Packed like sardines in to the empires tiny number of ships?

Bit pointless drafting civillians when you've got nothing to put them to war in.

Besides...We're not dealing with the hypothetical here are we otherwise I could say that the Borg gradually assimilate all the outer rim worlds (along with all their inhabitants) and turn the empires people against them.

LOL.

Star Wars has billions of ships; star destroyers aren't the only kind of ship.

Besides, they don't even have to send them in fleets. They would arm them and watch as a bunch of troopers get repelled by huge mobs of civilians.

So star wars does have temporal shields and/or weapons?

Or ways to hit and destroy a ship that exists outside their own space and time?

This'll be interesting.

We'll discuss this later.

Hey...I'm only going by what is on screen in the highest canon films...If you want to toss that aside then good for you, son.

Faulty logic. Show me where the OT contradicts my source. I'm not "tossing it aside" because there isn't a source from the OT talking about the quality of security, good or bad, of the Death Star. Stop lying.

It's position is given away once it fires its weapons...It'd be relatively easy to hit by then...If empire troops can hit an x-wing with manually guided laser batteries then i'm sure the Borg's tracking systems would be easily capable of hitting it.

"It's position is given away once it fires its weapons" - false. That's what shadow bombs are for. Shadow bombs are activated by the Force and regular sensors cannot track them.

😆

Nice come back...If you can't genuinely see how an entire universe of planet destroying bio weapons would utterly rape a single galaxy of star wars armies then you really are just in denial.

"an entire universe of planet destroying bio weapons" - prove it. Prove that they have more than one.

You're still ignoring the HUGE firepower difference. Hundreds of 2.4 million megaton heavy turbolasers + almost a hundred starfighters vs 1160 megaton proton torpedos with relatively little ammo and range.

Who says it has to be on a ship...I'll mention it again seeing as you still haven't even addressed it...The Iconian Gateway.

I'll counter that with Centerpoint Station.

The part about '100 quadrillion civilians all being fit for duty and draft ready' is hysterical and shows the level of debate, Like there are no children, aged, sick or outright useless in that crowd.

Also love how the same argument just can't apply to Star Trek's favor too.

Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall

I'll counter that with Centerpoint Station.

You probably want to inform yourself on what the Iconian Gateway is before you counter with a tug-boat.

Robtard, actually respond to my points and stop nitpicking on the few parts of my argument that you can counter (or try to counter) or stop trolling.

Originally posted by Robtard
The part about '100 quadrillion civilians all being fit for duty and draft ready' is hysterical and shows the level of debate, Like there are no children, aged, sick or outright useless in that crowd.

Also love how the same argument just can't apply to Star Trek's favor too.

Outright lie. I said the 100 quadrillion civilians that were fit for duty. Even if that were only 1 in 100, that would still be a quadrillion soldiers.

I'd also be interested in knowing how you think that Star Trek could get access to 100 quadrillion civilians like Star Wars can. Explain.

Originally posted by Robtard
You probably want to inform yourself on what the Iconian Gateway is before you counter with a tug-boat.

You probably want to inform yourself on what Centerpoint station is before you counter with a single gateway, which you and Janus101 think can apparently transport more than a single ship, which would get annihilated by 2.4 million megaton heavy turbolasers.

Star Wars: 2400000 (2.4 million) megatons per shot
Star Trek: 1160 megatons

Star Wars: 70000000000000 (70 trillion) gigawatts
Star Trek: low enough to get damaged by 1160 megatons

Star Wars: 200000000000000 (200 trillion) gigawatts
Star Trek: 15000000000 (15 billion) gigawatts

All of the above numbers are canon sources.

Star Wars obviously have a HUGE advantage by several orders of magnitude. Why do Janus101 and Robtard think that Star Trek stands any chance at all?

Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall
Robtard, actually respond to my points and stop nitpicking on the few parts of my argument that you can counter (or try to counter) or stop trolling.

[b]Outright lie. I said the 100 quadrillion civilians that were fit for duty. Even if that were only 1 in 100, that would still be a quadrillion soldiers.

I'd also be interested in knowing how you think that Star Trek could get access to 100 quadrillion civilians like Star Wars can. Explain.

You probably want to inform yourself on what Centerpoint station is before you counter with a single gateway, which you and Janus101 think can apparently transport more than a single ship, which would get annihilated by 2.4 million megaton heavy turbolasers. [/B]

Ah the dodging troll, trolls by calling others trolls. Very good.

You're not making any sense, first you say I'm lying, then your second sentence affirms that you consider there are '100 quadrillion civilians fit for duty.' Make up your mind.

Not that a bunch of armed civilians on a planet would matter to even the original Enterprise. But Star Trek, just like Star Wars is a galaxy filled with billions of inhabited worlds. So there's your civilains. It should be noted, the Borg have no civilians, all drones are battle prepped and ready to assimilate. Jem'Hadar too, all soldiers.

I know what Centerpoint Station is, you apparently don't, as you're "countering" with it. What you fail to know, as you no nothing of Star Trek. Data showed that the Iconian Gateway could open an instant path to ANYWHERE. So a red-matter bomb could be dropped right into your precious Tug-Boat Station and it'd be sucked into a black-hole. Though conventional torpedoes would do too.

Originally posted by Robtard
Ah the dodging troll, trolls by calling others trolls. Very good.

You're not making any sense, first you say I'm lying, then your second sentence affirms that you consider there are '100 quadrillion civilians fit for duty.' Make up your mind.

Not that a bunch of armed civilians on a planet would matter to even the original Enterprise. But Star Trek, just like Star Wars is a galaxy filled with billions of inhabited worlds. So there's your civilains. It should be noted, the Borg have no civilians, all drones are battle prepped and ready to assimilate.

I know what Centerpoint Station is, you apparently don't, as you're "countering" with it. What you fail to know, as you no nothing of Star Trek. Data showed that the Iconian Gateway could open an instant path to ANYWHERE. So a red-matter bomb could be dropped right into your precious Tug-Boat Station and it'd be sucked into a black-hole. Though conventional torpedoes would do too.

Star Wars has 100 quadrillion civilians. Even if only 1 in 100 of them are fit for duty, that's still 1 quadrillion soldiers. You outright lied by claiming that Star Trek also has 100 quadrillion civilians, or even close to that number.

Oh, and why don't you explain how 1160 megaton weapons will do any noticeable damage to ships that fight week long battles against other ships with 2.4 million megaton weapons with a rate of fire of about 30 rpm?

Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall
Star Wars has 100 quadrillion civilians. Even if only 1 in 100 of them are fit for duty, that's still 1 quadrillion soldiers. You [b]outright lied by claiming that Star Trek also has 100 quadrillion civilians.

Oh, and why don't you explain how 1160 megaton weapons will do any noticeable damage to ships that fight week long battles against other ships with 2.4 million megaton weapons with a rate of fire of about 30 rpm? [/B]

How can I lie about something I never said? That's a Strawman too. I said Star Trek has billion of inhabited world too, ergo, that would translate to a lot if people. But as noted, armed civilians on a planet mean nothing to immensely poweful ships. Your point is moot.

I see you're now dodging the Iconian Gateway and hoping it just goes away. How typical of you, another dodge added to the list.

I don't have to explain, your math is off, so your premise is faulty. You even killed your own argument a few pages back by citing that your source for Star Trek wasn't canon. By continuing to bring up this fail point, you're effectively lying.

Originally posted by Robtard
How can I lie about something I never said? That's a Strawman too. I said Star Trek has billion of inhabited world too, ergo, that would translate to a lot if people. But as noted, armed civilians on a planet mean nothing to immensely poweful ships. Your point is moot.

Planetary shields ftw

I see you're now dodging the Iconian Gateway. How typical of you, another dodge added to the list.

The gateway would not be able to transport a large enough fleet to actually do damage.

I don't have to explain, your math is off, so your premise is faulty. You even killed your own argument a few pages back by citing that your source for Star Trek wasn't canon. By continuing to bring up this fail point, you're effectively lying.

Did you actually read my posts? My 2.4 million megaton figure was from canon STAR WARS figures, and my 1160 megaton figure was according to Jaden101.

Therefore, I will ask you again; how do 1160 megaton weapon noticeably damage ships that can fight week long battles against ships with 2.4 million megaton weapons?

Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall
Planetary shields ftw

The gateway would not be able to transport a large enough fleet to actually do damage.

Did you actually read my posts? My 2.4 million megaton figure was from canon STAR WARS figures, and my 1160 megaton figure was according to Jaden101.

Already shown to be useless.

Did my example state "a fleet"? No, it did not, but it did shown how it could do massive damage. If you knew anything of DS9, the Jem'Hader had intended to move a "force of any size" through one. So just go back to dodging.

Do you actually think repeating a lie is the way to debate?

Originally posted by Robtard
Already shown to be useless.

Did my example state "a fleet"? No, it did not. But if you knew anything of DS9, the Jem'Hader had intended to move a "force of any size" through one. So just go back to dodging.

Do you actually think repeating a lie is the way to debate?

How?

And how long would that take?

It's not a lie. Are you saying that you think that CANON Star Wars sources are a "lie", and that Jaden101 was lying? You're the one that's dodging the point. How do 1160 megaton weapon noticeably damage ships that can fight week long battles against ships with 2.4 million megaton weapons?

Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall
How?

And how long would that take?

It's not a lie. Are you saying that you think that CANON Star Wars sources are a "lie", and that Jaden101 was lying?

Destruction, assimilation, phasing through them, appearing behind them from sub-space, creating a black-hole and sucking the entire planet in etc. Ergo Planetary Shields FTL. All been told to you before, over and over. You just dodge, wait a couple pages and then bring up the same failed point.

Iconian Gateways are instant, as shown. Again, maybe educate yourself on Star Trek BEFORE debating here.

Your math was off and the sources you used to initially come up with the skewed number were shown to be non-canon and contradictory to what was stated on Star Trek:TNG, best part, you showed this non-canon yourself. So, why do you think lying is the proper way to debate?

Originally posted by Robtard
Destruction, assimilation, phasing through them, appearing behind them from sub-space, creating a black-hole and sucking the entire planet in etc. Ergo Planetary Shields FTL. All been told to you before, over and over. You just dodge, wait a couple pages and then bring up the same failed point.

You've only mentioned the second one, which is unproven.

Iconian Gateways are instant, as shown. Again, maybe educate yourself on Star Trek BEFORE debating here.

Good point that they're instant, so that's an advantage, but not a tide changer. Isn't the gateway only about the size of a door?


Your math was off and the sources you used to initially come up with the skewed number were shown to be non-canon and contradictory to what was stated on Star Trek:TNG, best part, you showed this non-canon yourself. So, why do you think lying is the proper way to debate?

BS. My 2.4 million megaton vs 1160 megaton was based off of two sources:

1. Official Star Wars sources
2. Jaden101's claims based off of canon sources

Explain to me how either of these are "non canon".

Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall
You've only mentioned the second one, which is unproven.

Good point that they're instant, so that's an advantage, but not a tide changer.

BS. My 2.4 million megaton vs 1160 megaton was based off of two sources:

1. Official Star Wars sources
2. Jaden101's claims based off of canon sources

Explain to me how either of these are "non canon".

That's a lie. The phasing technology, Krenim Time-Weapon, sub-space etc were brought up before on multiple occasions throughout this long thread. IIRC, Jaden mentioned most of them them 1st, you jsut dodge and then pretend nothing was countered and rehash the failed point.

LoL. Way to downplay it, considering you tried using Centerpoint Station as some counter.

You killed your own argument by insisting Star Trek written works are non-canon and then showing it. Jaden's math on the other-hand is solid, he's known for this. Debating something based on a lie is a time-waster, enough.

Originally posted by Robtard

LoL. You killed your own argument by insisting Star Trek written works are non-canon and then showing it. Jaden's math on the other-hand is solid, he's known for this.

LIES.

2.4 million megatons - got from STAR WARS canon source.

1160 megatons - got from Jaden101.

Explain how any of these have anything to do with our Star TREK written works debate. EXPLAIN.

LoL, more classic trolling. Accusing others of your own misdeeds in a thread.

Do also ignore the rest of my post that expose your nonsense and only focus on your inability to be honest. Not going to discuss what was mathematically shown by Jaden to be factual and focus on your BS.

Jaden took the time to do the math for you and made a long detailed post. Poor form you're showing.

Anyhow, as shown, your "planetary shields" rebuttal is useless, though I don't believe it will stop you from bringing it up again, should this thread go on for a few for pages. The Iconian Gateway is but one tide-turning weapon, Krenim Time-Weapon being another. Just two things you can't counter, only dodge.

Originally posted by Robtard
LoL, more classic trolling. Accusing others of your own misdeeds in a thread.

Do also ignore the rest of my post that expose your nonsense and only focus on your inability to be honest. Not going to discuss what was mathematically shown by Jaden to be factual and focus on your BS.

Jaden took the time to do the math for you and made a long detailed post. Poor form you're showing.

Anyhow, as shown, your "planetary shields" rebuttal is useless, though I don't believe it will stop you from bringing it up again, should this thread go on for a few for pages. The Iconian Gateway is but one tide-turning weapon, Krenim Time-Weapon being another. Just two things you can't counter, only dodge.

You don't get it.

2.4 million megatons - got from canon Star Wars source.

1160 megatons - got from Jaden 101 NOT from that Star Trek manual. As YOU have stated, Jaden101 "did the math for me", and the result was 1160 megatons.

Explain how either or these two have anything to do with Star TREK written works, as you claim.

LoL. Go read that long post Jaden made for you showing you the correct math, instead of dodging it.

Anyhow, Krenim Time-Weapon, Iconian Gateways (yes, plural, there would be many of them in this fight), got a counter? Because "planatery shields" isn't it.

Originally posted by Robtard
LoL.

Anyhow, Krenim Time-Weapon, Iconian Gateways (yes, plural, there would be many of them in this fight), got a counter? Because "planatery shields" isn't it.

Before that happens, please explain why you outright lied and stated that I was using "non canon sources".

2.4 million megatons - from a canon Star Wars source
1160 megatons - NOT from a Star Trek book (which lists the firepower as far lower than 1160 megatons), but from Jaden101's math, which you praise.

Which of these is non canon?

BTW, do you even read what you post? You accuse me of dodging, and then say LOL to my post and say "anyhow, ...".

Originally posted by Robtard
LoL. Go read that long post Jaden made for you showing you the correct math, instead of dodging it.

😆 😆 😆 😆

The CORRECT MATH that JADEN101 DID showed that Star Trek proton torpedoes were 1160 megatons, which is FAR LESS than 2.4 million megatons.

And yet you claim that it is incorrect while telling me to read it and citing it as a source? Did you yourself even read it?

🙄