Ah, once again you insist I answer you first (which I have) before you answer mine as a means to dodge; it's also a form of trolling.
For the record, let's just pretend your skewed non-canon sourced math in regards to "power output" is correct and Jaden's isn't. That won't be a factor to the Krenim Time-Weapon though.
Maybe two was too much for you. Let's try one: Krenim Time-Weapon, counter?
Originally posted by Robtard
Ah, once again you insist I answer you first (which I have) before you answer mine as a means to dodge; it's also a form of trolling.For the record, [b]let's just pretend
your skewed non-canon sourced math in regards to "power output" is correct and Jaden's isn't. That won't be a factor to the Krenim Time-Weapon though.Maybe two was too much for you. Let's try one: Krenim Time-Weapon, counter? [/B]
YOU'RE the one dodging the point. This is the point that you keep on dodging:
2.4 megatons - got from Star Wars canon source
1160 megatons - got from Jaden101
Explain how either of these have anything to do with Star TREK written sources as you falsely claim.
I'm really pressing this point because I'm really offended that you accused me of something that is an outright lie. You have this illusion that I was using non canon sources and say that Jaden101's math was better, but I was using the figures that Jaden101 provided.
Originally posted by Robtard
WTF? I just said [b]lets use YOUR numbers for this immediate debate and consider them fact here, yet still you dodge with your triple panic-post while dodging, hilarious.So, Krenim Time-Weapon, you got a counter? [/B]
I don't think you understand.
I was using the SAME numbers for Star Trek proton torpedoes as Jaden101 was. I was showing how they were weaker than Star Wars turbolasers.
Originally posted by Robtard
I'm actually starting to question if you're not really a troll using these trolling tactics for fun, but actually have some sort of mental problems.[b]REPEAT: FOR THIS IMMEDIATE DEBATE, LET US CONSIDER THAT [b]YOUR
NUMBERS ARE CORRECT.[/b]So, Krenim Time-Weapon, counter? [/B]
Why is it that you can't apologize when you quite clearly made a mistake (you call my source wrong and Jaden101's right in the same paragraph, even though we were both using the same source)? Anyway, I'll counter your trump card.
1. Who's to say that the time ship is completely immune to weapons? Since the time ship has to move in space using warp, it appears as though it is still affected by space. Who's to say that a black hole made by Centerpoint Station couldn't destroy it?
2. Who's to say that the time ship has unlimited fuel? Although it somehow being separated from time or something apparently keeps the crew from aging while in it, the ship uses warp, and logic dictates that it would need to use fuel (whatever fuel warp requires) to do so. Therefore, fuel would have to be used, and the ship couldn't carry unlimited fuel. The Enterprise has enough fuel reserves to travel about 2750 light-years using warp, and being an exploration ship it would logically have a lot of fuel. 2750 light-years isn't anywhere near the size of the Star Wars or the Star Trek galaxy, and therefore it would have to stop to refuel. However, Star Wars would have been able to defeat Star Trek, and when that happens (which wouldn't take all that long), how will the ship (which wouldn't have reached Coruscant yet due to a slow warp 6 speed) refuel?
3. What if Star Wars uses Centerpoint Station to keep on moving Coruscant out of the way in order to protect it from this time ship?
4. Who's to say that the time ship can penetrate a planetary shield? Although the time ship itself is supposedly outside of space and time (which doesn't make sense since it still has to travel through space), the weapon that it fires affects space and time, implying that it is part of space and time. Therefore, there is no definitive proof that it could simply phase through a shield.
5. Didn't the time ship erase itself from existense so that it never existed at all?
And, finally, there's the trump card to counter your trump card:
6. What about the Celestials? The Celestial race's planet of origin is not Coruscant (well, it hasn't been shown or implied to be Coruscant). In fact, their planet of origin is unknown, meaning that the time ship would not be able to wipe them out. It is implied that the Celestials have the knowledge of the past, present and future, and even if that isn't the case, they're still very, very powerful and advanced.
I've countered your argument. Counter mine and stop being a hypocrite:
Explain why you apparently think that 1160 megaton (figure that I got from Jaden101, who you say is right) weapons can noticeably damage ships that can fight week long battles with other ships using 2.4 million megaton (figure that I got from canon Star Wars sources) heavy turbolasers.
Also, explain why you outright lied and called the 1160 megaton figure a non canon source, and then stated that Janus101's source was correct when we were both using the same source.
Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall
4. Who's to say that the time ship can penetrate a planetary shield? Although the time ship itself is supposedly outside of space and time (which doesn't make sense since it still has to travel through space), the weapon that it fires affects space and time, implying that it is part of space and time. Therefore, there is no definitive proof that it could simply phase through a shield.
the weapon it fires is outside of space and time, and can penetrate shielding. it's stated more than once in the episodes.
you have to prove that star wars shields can stop it, since there is precedence for it penetrating any shielding it encounters that isn't temporal.
1)The episodes make it clear that since the Time-Weapon exist out of time, it's immune to weapons (and anything in normal space-time) as it's effectively not there for the purposes of being attacked.
2)It's been functioning for hundreds of years and the crew is effectively immortal. The ship runs on a temporal-core, ie, it runs of time.
3)What is your fascination with pitting Corusant at the center of everything here? But okay, there are severe flaws in that nonsense "keep moving the planet". 1) What happens to the people/things on the planet when it's being moved out of orbit? 2) The Time-weapon can move too 3) While the Tug-boat is moving Corusant, the rest of SW is being slowly erased from time, civilization after civilization and the corresponding effects they've had through-out the time-line as well.
4) It's weapon is time, are planatary shields immune to time? No. It'd just be erased from the time-line, along with everyone and everything on the planet.
5) Are you implying they're omnipotent? Because then 'Q' and the 'Dowd' are brought in. More flaws, just because their planet of origin is "unknown", doesn't mean it doesn't exist and as you've been told, the Krenim Time-weapon is effectively immortal and litterally has all the time in the universe to accomplish its task. There are also "very powerful" races in ST, just saying this by itself doesn't mean much.
You fail 5 for 5, sorry.
Repeat: Krenim Time-Weapon, got a counter?
1. Yet a black hole has a huge gravational pull. The time ship is visible (right?), implying that light still reflects off of it even though it's supposedly outside space and time.
2. Are you saying that the ship's fuel reserves are a temporal core?
3. 1) It's not shown to harm a person when moving him/her 2) yes, but only at warp 6 3) Centerpoint station keeps on moving planets that are threatened, or maybe even moves the time ship if possible.
4. Possibly.
5. The Celestials aren't shown to have a homeworld; they may not have one in the Star Wars Galaxy at all. If they do, they can use Centerpoint station to move it away far outside of the reach of the time ship, or maybe even destroy the home planet.
BTW, I added in another point in edits.
Also, can you please counter my argument while we're discussing this?
Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall
1. Yet a black hole has a huge gravational pull. The time ship is visible (right?), implying that light still reflects off of it even though it's supposedly outside space and time.2. Are you saying that the ship's fuel reserves are a temporal core?
3. 1) It's not shown to harm a person when moving him/her 2) yes, but only at warp 6 3) Centerpoint station keeps on moving planets that are threatened, or maybe even moves the time ship if possible.
4. Possibly.
5. The Celestials aren't shown to have a homeworld; they may not have one in the Star Wars Galaxy at all. If they do, they can use Centerpoint station to move it away far outside of the reach of the time ship, or maybe even destroy the home planet.
BTW, I added in another point in edits.
Also, can you please counter my argument while we're discussing this?
1)Time-Ship is visible, yes. it does exist out of space-time, as told to you over and over. Maybe you should watch the episodes or at least read-up of the ship BEFORE you try and counter.
2)Its Temporal-core is the engine/weapon. The crew is effectively immortal, as stated.
3)Tug-boat can only move one planet at a time. Really, this angle of your is even more ridiculous than some of the other ridiculousness you've said in here. The Station would eventually be erased from time too, possibly from one of the time reactions of erasing something/someone else.
4) No. Just accept that a planet-shield isn't a counter to time itself.
5)Back to square one, Tug-boat can only move one planet at a time and the Kremin Time-Weapon has all the time in the universe to do its task. Destroy which home-world, Krenim? That won't matter to the Krenim Time-Weapon, [repeat] as it exist outside of time.
Getting old repeating the same thing to you, which you ignore as a form of dodging.
If you don't have a proper counter to the Krenim Time-Weapon, just admit you don't. This dancing/dodging of yours is dumb.
In the very least, go read-up of the Krenim Time-Weapon and then respond. Can you at least do this?
Originally posted by Robtard
1)Time-Ship is visible, yes. it does exist out of space-time, as told to you over and over. Maybe you should watch the episodes or at least read-up of the ship BEFORE you try and counter.2)Its Temporal-core is the engine/weapon. The crew is effectively immortal, as stated.
3)Tug-boat can only move one planet at a time. Really, this angle of your is even more ridiculous than some of the other ridiculousness you've said in here. The Station would eventually be erased from time too, possibly from one of the time reactions of erasing something/someone else.
4) No. Just accept that a planet-shield isn't a counter to time itself.
5)Back to square one, Tug-boat can only move one planet at a time and the Kremin Time-Weapon has all the time in the universe to do its task. Destroy which home-world, Krenim? That won't matter to the Krenim Time-Weapon, [repeat] as it exist outside of time.
Getting old repeating the same thing to you, which you ignore as a form of dodging.
If you don't have a proper counter to the Krenim Time-Weapon, just admit you don't. This dancing/dodging of yours is dumb.
1. Yet how is that possible if its apparently outside of space?
2. Really? Source? Based on memory alpha the temporal core merely protects the ship.
3. Irrelevant. How does it only moving one planet at a time have to do with anything?
4. Except that the time weapon isn't "time itself".
5. The Celestials can use Centerpoint Station to move their home planet to a far away part of the universe, or they could destroy their home planet in order to prevent the time ship from firing on it.
BTW, I added another point in edits, which I stated and you ignored.
Also, can you please respond to my arguments while I respond to yours? Do you not realize that you are acting like a hypocrite?
Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall
1. Yet how is that possible if its apparently outside of space?2. Really? Source? Based on memory alpha the temporal core merely protects the ship.
3. Irrelevant. How does it only moving one planet at a time have to do with anything?
4. Except that the time weapon isn't "time itself".
5. The Celestials can use Centerpoint Station to move their home planet to a far away part of the universe, or they could destroy their home planet in order to prevent the time ship from firing on it.
BTW, I added another point in edits.
Also, can you please respond to my arguments while I respond to yours?
1) Because it's Science-Fiction, obviously. How is The Force possible? Krenim ship, immune to weapons, just accept it.
2) Then watch the episodes. What's your angle here anyway? That the ship will just run out of power? LoL.
3)You're the one that tried to use Center-point station's tub-boat abilities as some pathetic counter. So point that finger back at yourself.
4) No, it just has the ability to erase people, things or entire civilizations out of the time-line and a planatary shield would exist in normal space-time, ergo, it wouldn't factor to the Krenim Time-Weapon.
5) Good for them? What will that matter when they can't attack the Krenim Time-Ship and it's a matter of time before they're encountered and erased.
Which arguments? I've responded point for point, even to your meticulous "move a planet" ones.
Still waiting on a proper counter to the Krenim Time-Weapon.
Originally posted by Robtard
1) Because it's Science-Fiction, obviously. How is The Force possible? Krenim ship, immune to weapons, just accept it.2) Then watch the episodes. What's your angle here anyway? That the ship will just run out of power? LoL.
3)You're the one that tried to use Center-point station's tub-boat abilities as some pathetic counter. So point that finger back at yourself.
4) No, it just has the ability to erase people, things or entire civilizations out of the time-line and a planatary shield would exist in normal space-time, ergo, it wouldn't factor to the Krenim Time-Weapon.
5) Good for them? What will that matter when they can't attack the Krenim Time-Ship and it's a matter of time before they're encountered and erased.
Which arguments? I've responded point for point, even to your meticulous "move a planet" ones.
Still waiting on a proper counter to the Krenim Time-Weapon.
1. The Force a reasonable exception, being a type life force energy and intended to be mystical. The time ship is a scientifically based weapon made by a scientist, and yet the logic and science behind it is messed up. Since visible light can affect it, it can be argued that the sun crusher could make a star go nova and destroy it.
2. My point is that the ship will run out of fuel.
3. Centerpoint station can move planets. Even if it's only one at a time (which is unsupported), my point still stands.
4. Visible light also exists in normal space and time, yet the time ship was affected by it.
5. WHAT? This has nothing to do with what I'm saying. The Celestials can move their homeworld away from the Galaxy or destroy it.
6. Didn't the time ship erase itself from existence, making itself not having existed at all?
7. What about the Force?
New one, 8. When the time ship fires, does it alter the current timeline or create a new one?
Also, while we are discussing your argument, please:
Explain why you apparently think that 1160 megaton (figure that I got from Jaden101, who you say is right) weapons can noticeably damage ships that can fight week long battles with other ships using 2.4 million megaton (figure that I got from canon Star Wars sources) heavy turbolasers.
Also, explain why you outright lied and called the 1160 megaton figure a non canon source, and then stated that Janus101's source was correct when we were both using the same source.
Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall
[B]1. Yet how is that possible if its apparently outside of space?[/q]
It's core shifts it several seconds out of phase with the rest of the universe to prevent it from being affect by "temperal incursions" - when it uses it's temperal weapons to erase something from history.2. Really? Source? Based on memory alpha the temporal core merely protects the ship.
From events happening within normal space-time (not space and time)...
Temperal Core[quote]3. Irrelevant. How does it only moving one planet at a time have to do with anything?
4. Except that the time weapon isn't "time itself".
5. The Celestials can use Centerpoint Station to move their home planet to a far away part of the universe, or they could destroy their home planet in order to prevent the time ship from firing on it.
Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall
1. The Force a reasonable exception, being a type life force energy and intended to be mystical. The time ship is a scientifically based weapon made by a scientist, and yet the logic and science behind it is messed up. Since visible light can affect it, it can be argued that the sun crusher could make a star go nova and destroy it.2. My point is that the ship will run out of fuel.
3. Centerpoint station can move planets. Even if it's only one at a time (which is unsupported), my point still stands.
4. Visible light also exists in normal space and time, yet the time ship was affected by it.
5. WHAT? This has nothing to do with what I'm saying. The Celestials can move their homeworld away from the Galaxy or destroy it.
6. Didn't the time ship erase itself from existence, making itself not having existed at all?
7. What about the Force?
New one, 8. When the time ship fires, does it alter the current timeline or create a new one?
Also, while we are discussing your argument, please:
Explain why you apparently think that 1160 megaton (figure that I got from Jaden101, who you say is right) weapons can noticeably damage ships that can fight week long battles with other ships using 2.4 million megaton (figure that I got from canon Star Wars sources) heavy turbolasers.
Also, explain why you outright lied and called the 1160 megaton figure a non canon source, and then stated that Janus101's source was correct when we were both using the same source.
1) Ah, so you decide to dictate what facets of Science Fiction we allow and which ones we don't. Sorry, that doesn't fly and it amounts to trolling. Krenim Time-Weapon is and does what is said, as per the show.
2) You have no basis for this, though I can show how the ship existing out of space-time and the crew being immortal show that the ship has all the time in the universe. Also of note, when an officer questioned the Captain about them stopping their mission, his response was he wouldn't, not matter how long it takes, ie, he knows he has all the time in the universe.
3) Your point is pointless here. But okay, Centerpoint station can move a planet. Yay!
4) See "Science-Fiction". Your point won't take away from what was established in the show, ie is canon.
5)Repeat: Good for them, they can move their planet or destroy it. Irrelevant here.
6)Something like that. The crew sabotaged the ship, making it return to normal space-time, Janeway rammed Voyager into it, the ensuing temporal explosion set the universe straight and the whole business effectively was erased and never happened. Which proves what you've been told and re-told before, "only the Time-weapon stops the Time-weapon."
7) What about The Force?
8)Both effectively. eg I you were erased from the time-line, it would affect the past, present and future, as all your actions that affected people/places/things would also be affected throughout the time-line.
Are you sick in the head? Honest question. Not discussing your nonsense numbers anymore, as Jaden showed the numbers and I even went as far as to say "your stats are right for this immediate debate."
1. Stop dodging the point. The fact that it can be affected by sunlight shows that it is not completely immune to conventional forces.
2. This does not have anything to do with what I'm saying. I'm saying that they would run out of fuel. They could have refueled, but in this case Star Wars would have already won.
3. Go back a few a posts.
4. Again, the time ship was affected by sunlight.
5. Yes it is relevant, and it isn't that hard to figure out how. If the Celestials destroy the Celestial homeworld, the time ship will not be able to wipe it out with their time weapon.
6. You proved me right. "effectively was erased and never happened". The time weapon never existed at all. Therefore, it wouldn't be in this war.
7. The Force can be speculated to be beyond space and time, although I'll admit that this is probably speculation. Well, actually there is a lot of evidence supporting this.
8. If it does indeed create an alternate timeline, then that would mean that the timeline would not be affected; another one would be created, which would not affect the outcome of this thread.
Originally posted by RobtardAre you sick in the head?
Can you sink any lower?
Honest question.
STFU
Not discussing your nonsense numbers anymore, as Jaden showed the numbers and I even went as far as to say "your stats are right for this immediate debate."
Do you realize that in this case Janus101 and I were using the same sources?