Superman vs Thanos

Started by Naija boy34 pages

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
To Quan, Kurupt, and Galactus is here. Moondragon and Adam Warlock stated that it was not Warrior Madness, and Thanos confirmed it with his instruments.

Odin once again confirmed it in the last issue of the arc.

He knocked Mangog down and Mangog was gone for 3 entire pages, and while Mangog was down Thor put down the retconed Thanos clone down for a page or so. And Thor once hit Mangog so hard we saw physical damage (The time he shoved Mjolnir up his throat.).

Knocking down the Destroyer to the point it's lying there for a page shows that the blow at least rocked it. Thor on average can't even stagger these beings.

Their equals? I've never considered Norrin to be Thor's equal. In fact their first fight, made it pretty clear that Thor is above Classic Silver Surfer in my own personal opinion. And as we saw, Beta Ray Bill is not Thor's equal either, as Thor has gone above and beyond him on occasions other than Blood and Thunder. Such as Desak knocking around Bill and Hercules at the same time, while Classic Thor was doing pretty decent even when significantly weakened. Or the recent Super Skrull incident that made it pretty clear whose superior to who.

Eh? I just said that Thor doesn't tap into some alternate power source which is the case unless you have proof to say otherwise. The Warrior Madness from what we have seen is Thor simply going berserk, entering a different state of mind. Nothing more than that information has been giving. Thinking about it, I'm wondering if it is infact him tapping into his reserves. Thanks for the idea Naija. I'm going to check up on this.

Cool. Thor wouldn't fight that way in a forum either.

Norrin flying around and blasting Thor from a distance. Such as here....

Never said you did claim that. Simply said that the same can be said for Thor. If you go back and read my post you'll see that, that is the case.

Pls post those scans also. MAngog being gone for three pages could have been for the simply fact that they switched sceners and nothing more. I dont remeber any form of damage coming to him. Also Thor put down the thanos clone? Is this when he was amped with Odins armor? THat is the only time i remeber seeing such a thing happen in that comic so please post the scans of him putting "down" the thanos clone as well.

HE knocked down the destroyer and the mans spirit left its body and thats why it was lying there for a page. He didnt damage it at all.

Even if u dont think their equals, they r definitely peers. And in the recent superskrull incident im pretty sure thor had the Odinforce, and i seem to remember him using the Odinforce against Desak the first time as well.

U said he doesnt tap into some alternatge powersource but its just his state of mind that changes and hence he becomes stronger and it shows how much he holds. This implies that it his own natural strength or unrealised potential he is releasing. However all we know is that warrior madness magically makes him ten times stronger as well as other asgardians so to attempt to portray it as something that thors own strength reserves being released due to the state of mind change is just totally faulty.

There is no sign whatsoever of him using his speed and manoevrabilty "zigzagging" while simultaneously attacking thor. All he does is fly toward thor and blast him from a distance in which thor is close enough to hit him.

And u asked question implying that i did make such a claim

And Thor hammer tossing clearly would be what he would do amirite?

even though i had already emphasized that i didnt previously.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Posted them in the last post. Adam Warlock came to it first, but Thanos used his intellect and machines to apparently confirm that it was Odin's fault for the psychic imbalance. Odin confirms it after as well.

Well that's nice. Too bad, it was never stated he amped, except a throw away statement by Warlock how he was faster than he remembered.

Except we've never actually seen Thor in that state of mind before fight against those level beings. Pissed off and pushed Thor's been more effective against Celestials than the Full Powered Destroyer. Thor's been shown to go above and beyond the apparent Herald level branch we place him in before. It didn't surprise me he did what he did in Blood and Thunder.

In a sense that state of mind amped his stats? What the hell?

Yes, but he never states it isn't warrior madness. I see it as more or less that Odin was the catalyst not that he definitively answered whether is was true warrior madness or not.

Wouldn't Thanos also just tell him it's not warrior madness. Why did he let Odin find out for himself if he already knew. Odin acted as if he was going to kill Thor if that were the case.

Just because it wasn't true Warrior Madness doesn't mean that Thor wasn't more powerful due to his insanity. Was it stated that Lightray was in "Warrior Madness" or otherwise specifically noted that he was more powerful... no. And yet we still recognize him as such.

Insanity can increase power in comics, it's just the way it is. I don't know when the precedent was first set in this particular medium, but G's statement in the last panel shows that it's existed for a while(since the scan is from back in the day)...

http://i498.photobucket.com/albums/rr347/darthgoober/Thor_227-02.jpg

Comparing Ego and Lightray to Thor?

Really?

Originally posted by quanchi112
Yes, but he never states it isn't warrior madness. I see it as more or less that Odin was the catalyst not that he definitively answered whether is was true warrior madness or not.

Wouldn't Thanos also just tell him it's not warrior madness. Why did he let Odin find out for himself if he already knew. Odin acted as if he was going to kill Thor if that were the case.

Adam Warlock and Moondragon are the first ones to theorize that it isn't Warrior Madness, but another source, a psychic imbalance Odin caused that made him go crazy. Thanos confirmed that it is the psychic imbalance that causes him to go crazy and it takes the form of the Valkyrie and if it gets mended it will cure Thor's mental state. Hence it's not actual Warrior Madness like Adam Warlock theorized and Thanos confirmed but the psychic imbalance caused by Odin.

Warrior Madness =/= Crazy by psychic imbalance

It's quite clear dude.

That is why when Surfer and the others explain to Odin that Thor's insanity is caused by a psychic imbalance caused by Odin, Odin immediately comes to the conclusion that it isn't Warrior Madness.

It was rather clear based on the Thanos incident that it wasn't Warrior Madness.

Whatever. It really doesn't matter. It was confirmed that it was not Warrior Madness and that's all that matters.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Comparing Ego and Lightray to Thor?

Really?


Weren't all three portrayed in a better light when they were insane? I mean Thor talked about how evenly matched he and Firelord were when they fought before, does it really seem consistent for him to walk over Surfer like that?

But we're pretty far off topic now, so if you want to continue the discussion we should probably bump a more appropriate thread...

Eh? Thor defeated Ego's manifestation overpowering him and driving him away to the point they reach his brain and Thor takes care of him? That's what happened as I recall. Before that, Ego Prime was giving Thor more trouble.

Things change. Even so....Thor has definitely looked better than FireLord has on at least one or two occasions and they have stalemated on another as I recall.

And if we go down the comparison route it's a slippery slope. Different characters have been portrayed different ways.

Iron Man for example has a pretty solid record against Silver Surfer does he not? You're the expert on Norrin here.

Thor's been temporarily knocked by Air Walker, more than any herald has ever accomplished against Thor, but when pissed off, and realizing he wasn't living Thor easily took him out. Mentality changes a lot of things.

Is it so hard to believe that Thor was simply letting loose, unlike other instances?

And yea, didn't we do this shit once before?

Originally posted by Naija boy
Pls post those scans also. MAngog being gone for three pages could have been for the simply fact that they switched sceners and nothing more. I dont remeber any form of damage coming to him. Also Thor put down the thanos clone? Is this when he was amped with Odins armor? THat is the only time i remeber seeing such a thing happen in that comic so please post the scans of him putting "down" the thanos clone as well.

If you say so. Thor attacks Mangog and downs him. Mangog doesn't come back to attack Thor until 3 pages later.

Here he damages Mangog. Heck he even knocked off one of his horns.

Nah. I'm talking about this instance. We don't see Thanos for like another two pages.

Originally posted by Naija boy
HE knocked down the destroyer and the mans spirit left its body and thats why it was lying there for a page. He didnt damage it at all.

Talking about the Jake Olsen incident where a pissed off Thor comes back, and hits the Destroyer so hard it lies there at his feet. And during the instance you were talking about, Thor at the very least downed the Destroyer.

Originally posted by Naija boy
Even if u dont think their equals, they r definitely peers. And in the recent superskrull incident im pretty sure thor had the Odinforce, and i seem to remember him using the Odinforce against Desak the first time as well.

Thor only had a portion of the Odin Force since his rebirth and only used against Bor. And even on top of that, Fraction stated that during the time line he wrote, Thor was weakened and drained of his strength and whatever Odin Force he had as I recall.

Nah. First time they fought it was nothing but a brief scuffle for a panel or so where they traded blows after Bill and Hercules were each knocked on their ass with a single hit. Then Jake Olsen with only a portion of Classic Thor's strength took him on. Then the real Thor, killed him after coming back. Their final fight was during the Reigning when Thor had the Odin Force.

Even besides that instance, you have the showing where Loki one shots Bill and beats the shit out of the entire Thor Corps rather easily. His never done anything close to that against Thor.

It's been made pretty clear, that although Bill, Masterson etc. are powerful and strong, they are no Thor (Even more so for Masterson where it's been straight up said he isn't even on Thor's level in strength, and he was doing better against Loki than Bill.)

Originally posted by Naija boy
U said he doesnt tap into some alternatge powersource but its just his state of mind that changes and hence he becomes stronger and it shows how much he holds. This implies that it his own natural strength or unrealised potential he is releasing. However all we know is that warrior madness magically makes him ten times stronger as well as other asgardians so to attempt to portray it as something that thors own strength reserves being released due to the state of mind change is just totally faulty.

Which is all true. He doesn't tap into some alternate power source, and from what we have been told, the Warrior Madness is Thor entering a different state of mind. Thor himself stated that it as a mindless battle passion he enters. He literally refers that he isn't angry enough to enter it. It's a different state of mind where he doesn't care if he kills, and through that state he becomes 10 times stronger. Now you won't hear be spouting nonsense such as Thor's strength is dynamic as some Superman fans do for Superman, but it does give us something to think about.

The holding back thing I placed it in the wrong spot (Just re-read my post.). I believe I was referring to the entire Destroyer, Kurse dropping examples.

Originally posted by Naija boy
There is no sign whatsoever of him using his speed and manoevrabilty "zigzagging" while simultaneously attacking thor. All he does is fly toward thor and blast him from a distance in which thor is close enough to hit him.

I see him flying around, blasting from a distance, and trying to keep his distance. He seemed far away enough. Thor just knocked him off his board with a shockwave, and grabbed him by his neck. Thor was portrayed really fast in that issue.

Originally posted by Naija boy
And u asked question implying that i did make such a claim

even though i had already emphasized that i didnt previously.

I said:

"And Thor hammer tossing clearly would be what he would do amirite?"

That's all I said. I never stated anything like you're trying to make out I did.

I basically repeated the same question I stated in a previous post.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Eh? Thor defeated Ego's manifestation overpowering him and driving him away to the point they reach his brain and Thor takes care of him? That's what happened as I recall. Before that, Ego Prime was giving Thor more trouble.

Things change. Even so....Thor has definitely looked better than FireLord has on at least one or two occasions and they have stalemated on another as I recall.

And if we go down the comparison route it's a slippery slope. Different characters have been portrayed different ways.

Iron Man for example has a pretty solid record against Silver Surfer does he not? You're the expert on Norrin here.

Thor's been temporarily knocked by Air Walker, more than any herald has ever accomplished against Thor, but when pissed off, and realizing he wasn't living Thor easily took him out. Mentality changes a lot of things.

Is it so hard to believe that Thor was simply letting loose, unlike other instances?

And yea, didn't we do this shit once before?


I'll respond to this in the Thor vs Surfer thread, just give me a minute...

Take your time. I'm gonna go eat first and take a shower.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Comparing Ego and Lightray to Thor?

Really?

Adam Warlock and Moondragon are the first ones to theorize that it isn't Warrior Madness, but another source, a psychic imbalance Odin caused that made him go crazy. Thanos confirmed that it is the psychic imbalance that causes him to go crazy and it takes the form of the Valkyrie and if it gets mended it will cure Thor's mental state. Hence it's not actual Warrior Madness like Adam Warlock theorized and Thanos confirmed but the psychic imbalance caused by Odin.

Warrior Madness =/= Crazy by psychic imbalance

It's quite clear dude.

That is why when Surfer and the others explain to Odin that Thor's insanity is caused by a psychic imbalance caused by Odin, Odin immediately comes to the conclusion that it isn't Warrior Madness.

It was rather clear based on the Thanos incident that it wasn't Warrior Madness.

Whatever. It really doesn't matter. It was confirmed that it was not Warrior Madness and that's all that matters.

Ah. I just looked through part 12 of the series and you are correct to a point. It seemed warlock and company were already aware it wasn't true warrior's madness already while discussing their current situation with Thanos. When they explained their reasoning to Odin he immediately knew it wasn't true warrior's madness.

In any event the entire party knew it was Odin's actions and not true warrior madness when discussing this with Odin.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Ah. I just looked through part 12 of the series and you are correct to a point. It seemed warlock and company were already aware it wasn't true warrior's madness already while discussing their current situation with Thanos. When they explained their reasoning to Odin he immediately knew it wasn't true warrior's madness.

In any event the entire party knew it was Odin's actions and not true warrior madness when discussing this with Odin.

Of course I'm correct. It's me, we're talking about here. 😆

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Of course I'm correct. It's me, we're talking about here. 😆
I've proven you wrong before 😉

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Of course I'm correct. It's me, we're talking about here. 😆
To a point........the fine print my fellow asgardian.

Warlock and company knew the reasons for his madness prior to Thanos.

Anyways, are you going to admit Thor had his full powers back when he fought the Hulk in ih 440? 😛

Originally posted by quanchi112
To a point........the fine print my fellow asgardian.

Warlock and company knew the reasons for his madness prior to Thanos.

Anyways, are you going to admit Thor had his full powers back when he fought the Hulk in ih 440? 😛

Lol.

Holy shit. That's weird. I just remembered my debate with you about that, and how I was too lazy about finishing it. I was considering replying as I flipped through the issue, and it was stated Thor was nearly powerless, "while" fighting this Hulk.

And even the entire Warrior Madness thing? He didn't enter it until the last panel.

I haven't read that arc in a while, but if Samson is right, it's even more impressive.

Or am I wrong again, oh all knowing Quan? 🙁

Originally posted by Starscream M
I've proven you wrong before 😉

😂

Oh really brucy? When did this happen?

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
😂

Oh really brucy? When did this happen?

when I showed your ignorance regarding juggy's durability vs galactus's durability. but its ok, we all have things to learn. 😄

Originally posted by Starscream M
when I showed your ignorance regarding juggy's durability vs galactus's durability. but its ok, we all have things to learn. 😄

LMAO.

You mean your claim that Juggernaut has better than Galactus? Lol.

And you base that off the God Blast? Despite the fact that Thor was clearly weakened severely when he fought Juggernaut, and the God Blast he used against Galactus was obviously a fair bit more powerful.

Great debating their champ. 👆

Shouldn't you be somewhere proving that, Mirror Master is Flash? Or fighting crime maybe?

Originally posted by Starscream M
when I showed your ignorance regarding juggy's durability vs galactus's durability. but its ok, we all have things to learn. 😄

😐

Just like Carver taught Paul a couple of things about Superman.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
LMAO.

You mean your claim that Juggernaut has better than Galactus? Lol.

And you base that off the God Blast? Despite the fact that Thor was clearly weakened severely when he fought Juggernaut, and the God Blast he used against Galactus was obviously a fair bit more powerful.

not to derail this thread, but: thanos has damaged galactus with a blast, Beta Ray Bill has damaged Galactus with an attack...both of which would do nothing to hurt Juggernaut.

ok, back on topic.

Originally posted by Starscream M
not to derail this thread, but: thanos has damaged galactus with a blast, Beta Ray Bill has damaged Galactus with an attack...both of which would do nothing to hurt Juggernaut.

ok, back on topic.

😐

Damage? Thanos himself stated that Galactus was nothing more than angered. He didn't harm Galactus at all. Beta Ray Bill showed an impressive amount of strength when he cracked Galactus' armor. Props to Bill. His uber.

Thor's attack though? Thor was about to kill him if he hadn't ran away. Kill.

How can you even compare those two to the God Blast is beyond me, but then again, this is you....so.....

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus

How can you even compare those two to the God Blast is beyond me, but then again, this is you....so.....
the whole point is they don't...yet they still damaged galactus. which is my whole friggin point. jeez you're dense.