Originally posted by h1a8assuming it's just magic that was the cause of the destruction, even if it was aunt may with a sewing needle that did it, wouldn't it still be a display of immense power like the thread asks for?
So it was the magic affecting reality and not the power of the blow. Good job!
Originally posted by quanchi112
It's been a while since I read infinite crisis. Were their punches warping reality or was it Luthor? Wrong about which part?
To your scans. Of course it was a lot of Hyperbole. If the power would be the greatest after the big bang the effect wouldn't just be felt in the reality (where did they fight anyway, on asgard or some cross realm?) it would DESTROY the reality, or an part of the universe.
Second, thus are two Hammers hitting the same spot, means each other, the mystical energies of both, or the fact that they are the same, caused this "feel". Else, each time Thor would hit the earth or an enemy with full force, it would alter reality. So the feat though nice comes down to two basic things.
The conditions of this feat. (Place, two Mjolnirs, two Thors, the doubled Mystical energies of the hammer put against each other).
and
The Hyperbole. As Galactus and others are surely powers as great as the big bang, and greater then the clash of two Mjolnirs.
To the Superman scan, ODG:
This is the start of the fight. It goes on in three comics, i'm not in the mood to scan all those pages 😉. Basically, while Luthor split reality and searches for the perfect earth, Kal-L's Lois dies, he goes after Superman on his earth and engages him in battle. While the Reality outside is warped by luthor, their fight, their punches kicks, are powerful enough to alter the reality around them to their wishes. The reality doesn't warps randomly like with the rest, they are aware of each other, live each others lifes and even change the outcomes, Kal-L as Superman kills Doomsday and survives. That all happens WHILE they exchange blows and they experience this all during their fight, the fight however never stops. The winner of this fight would be the only Superman left, with his reality built as he wishes it, Kal-L leader of the JLA for example. The reason behind this is reason itself, because in the end both are good guys, Kal-L stops his rage and both go after SBP, where finally Kal-L dies.
Of course, the reality warping happend because of the conditions of this feat. (Place, the chaos from luthor, two Supermans (one PC, which is impressive since Kal-el went toe to toe with him) and the fact that everything comes from Superman.
So it's similar to Thor's feat in some way, just more impressive imho.
There is another feat in this, i realise now. Superman punch was as strong as that of Kal-L (PC-Superman) 🙂
Originally posted by -Pr-
who said they did?punching through john stewart's construct that was designed to hold him. hurting darkseid, mongul, doomsday, wonder woman. punching captain marvel from california to hawaii with such force that it still left a sonic boom when he reached hawaii. punching earth 2 superman so hard that reality was damaged during IC. beating the last brainiac.
thats off the top of my head.
That punching captain marvel thingy sounds pretty darn impressive!!!
Originally posted by h1a8
Superman can and has punched while flying forward. He doesn't need to just extend his hands.If Superman can't get a running start (a flying start) then Thor can't get one either (no whirling the hammer before the strike).
Yes, he can get a running start, what I meant was the instances he merely hit something with his arms extended w/c is more a flight speed feat than a punching feat.
Originally posted by h1a8
We don't know how much force is needed to damage reality but we do know that it is more than any strike Thor has ever done. If not then Thor would have been altering reality with his strikes too.
Not really, reality barriers in Marvel and the reality barriers in DC differ and the amount and type of force needed to "break" these realities differ as well. Since we can't quantify the amount needed to make a balanced comparison, this type of evidence is just plain assumption (w/c you REALLY need to stop doing).
Originally posted by h1a8
Also this thread is about normal Thor, not king Thor or the likes. So him doing anything to Destroyer is false.
It wasn't king Thor but Thor while he still had the Odinforce. I'll concede, however, that it is no longer the CURRENT version of Thor and is not the powerlevel the current Thor operates in. However, unlike PC Superman, these feats are canon to 616 Thor and are then admissible since the OP did not specify at w/c point of Thor's canon existence we're deriving these "best feats".
Classic Thor still managed to crack Celestial armor and managed to hurt both Thanos, the Surfer, however.
Originally posted by h1a8
Also Thanos and Surfer are not as durable as DD, Darkseid, and father Mongul.
Geez, you really need to start proving these assumptions of yours one day. This is getting old. Prove that any of these base assumptions are even remotely close to true.
Originally posted by h1a8
Celestial armor is very weak in comparison to uru or adamantium. It has been damaged multiple times under plain physical force in comics.
Post these "plain" physical force moments please.
Originally posted by D_Dude1210
Not really, reality barriers in Marvel and the reality barriers in DC differ and the amount and type of force needed to "break" these realities differ as well. Since we can't quantify the amount needed to make a balanced comparison, this type of evidence is just plain assumption
If you put it this way then every vs -crossover-thread (DC/Marvel etc) is nothing more then an summary of assumptions and opinions...which is.. oh wait.. TRUE!
Something funny btw http://media.photobucket.com/image/juggernaut%20thor/Hulk3389/thorhammer.jpg 😄
I just wanted to share this with you.
Originally posted by h1a8It's about power overall so it fits inside the parameters of the thread.
Which means two mystical hammers hitting each other caused it. So Thor hitting a regular non mystical object an nothing will happen.
Originally posted by Batman-PrimeIt was felt throughout the entire cosmos. That isn't hyperbole. You can call the statement that it rivaled the big bang hyperbole but not the other statement.
To your scans. Of course it was a lot of Hyperbole. If the power would be the greatest after the big bang the effect wouldn't just be felt in the reality (where did they fight anyway, on asgard or some cross realm?) it would DESTROY the reality, or an part of the universe.
Second, thus are two Hammers hitting the same spot, means each other, the mystical energies of both, or the fact that they are the same, caused this "feel". Else, each time Thor would hit the earth or an enemy with full force, it would alter reality. So the feat though nice comes down to two basic things.The conditions of this feat. (Place, two Mjolnirs, two Thors, the doubled Mystical energies of the hammer put against each other).
and
The Hyperbole. As Galactus and others are surely powers as great as the big bang, and greater then the clash of two Mjolnirs.
To the Superman scan, ODG:
This is the start of the fight. It goes on in three comics, i'm not in the mood to scan all those pages 😉. Basically, while Luthor split reality and searches for the perfect earth, Kal-L's Lois dies, he goes after Superman on his earth and engages him in battle. While the Reality outside is warped by luthor, their fight, their punches kicks, are powerful enough to alter the reality around them to their wishes. The reality doesn't warps randomly like with the rest, they are aware of each other, live each others lifes and even change the outcomes, Kal-L as Superman kills Doomsday and survives. That all happens WHILE they exchange blows and they experience this all during their fight, the fight however never stops. The winner of this fight would be the only Superman left, with his reality built as he wishes it, Kal-L leader of the JLA for example. The reason behind this is reason itself, because in the end both are good guys, Kal-L stops his rage and both go after SBP, where finally Kal-L dies.Of course, the reality warping happend because of the conditions of this feat. (Place, the chaos from luthor, two Supermans (one PC, which is impressive since Kal-el went toe to toe with him) and the fact that everything comes from Superman.
So it's similar to Thor's feat in some way, just more impressive imho.
There is another feat in this, i realise now. Superman punch was as strong as that of Kal-L (PC-Superman) 🙂
Superman and Kal-l only did so because of the events going on which completely disqualifies said feat. Had they done it on their own then it would have been impressive, but since they didn't it depended on the events of ic to make this possible.
Kal-l was still weaker than Prime in direct confrontation. I don't see him being anywhere near Precrisis levels.
Originally posted by Batman-Prime
If you put it this way then every vs -crossover-thread (DC/Marvel etc) is nothing more then an summary of assumptions and opinions...which is.. oh wait.. TRUE!
Not really. Several physical laws differ between universes. DC, for example, allow people that travel at light speed to punch at Infinite Mass. This isn't true in the Marvel Universe (else the Surfer will win every fight via Cosmic Powered IMP).
Besides, from what I'm reading, the feat had a TON of context to it that further disqualifies that feat as viable evidence.
Originally posted by quanchi112
It's about power overall so it fits inside the parameters of the thread. It was felt throughout the entire cosmos. That isn't hyperbole. You can call the statement that it rivaled the big bang hyperbole but not the other statement.Superman and Kal-l only did so because of the events going on which completely disqualifies said feat. Had they done it on their own then it would have been impressive, but since they didn't it depended on the events of ic to make this possible.
Kal-l was still weaker than Prime in direct confrontation. I don't see him being anywhere near Precrisis levels.
Had thor hit something else, like the Face of the Surver it wouldn't be felt through the cosmos. Mjolnir vs Mjolnir, mystic energies x2, mystic energies released, mystic energies felt. Since Thor dind't do it alone, on his own, without the second Mjolnir, completly disqualifies said feat.
-- Here ya go, your logic.
Kal-L was killed by primed after both went through the red sun. What makes you think he was weaker? In general? His sane state of mind?
@D_Dude1210
From what you are reading. From what I'm reading it's damn impressive, though i do believe that one has to read the whole story to comprehend it right.
BTW at first Luthor created earth-2, then he did nothing, except talking about his plans. The state of Earth two and earth 1 were stable. Then the fight happend where they altered reality. Fighting on the newly recreated earth two. After the fight Luthor created the infinite number of earths.
So the onyl conditions that apply are in truth, the place, newly re-created earth-2, and the fact that everything came from kal-l.
Originally posted by Batman-PrimeNo, it isn't disqualified as nothing outside of these two hammers influenced the feat. It was the two hammers alone while in superman's case it was the events of ic that made this possible not their fists alone.
Had thor hit something else, like the Face of the Surver it wouldn't be felt through the cosmos. Mjolnir vs Mjolnir, mystic energies x2, mystic energies released, mystic energies felt. Since Thor dind't do it alone, on his own, without the second Mjolnir, completly disqualifies said feat.
-- Here ya go, your logic.Kal-L was killed by primed after both went through the red sun. What makes you think he was weaker? In general? His sane state of mind?
@D_Dude1210
From what you are reading. From what I'm reading it's damn impressive, though i do believe that one has to read the whole story to comprehend it right.
BTW at first Luthor created earth-2, then he did nothing, except talking about his plans. The state of Earth two and earth 1 were stable. Then the fight happend where they altered reality. Fighting on the newly recreated earth two. After the fight Luthor created the infinite number of earths.
So the onyl conditions that apply are in truth, the place, newly re-created earth-2, and the fact that everything came from kal-l.
My logic is sound as always.
Prime's feats, the way he's easily taken on Superman among others, the fact Kal-l needed aid and a red sun to beat the guy, oh wait he was beaten to a pulp by Prime.
Originally posted by quanchi112
No, it isn't disqualified as nothing outside of these two hammers influenced the feat. It was the two hammers alone while in superman's case it was the events of ic that made this possible not their fists alone.My logic is sound as always.
Prime's feats, the way he's easily taken on Superman among others, the fact Kal-l needed aid and a red sun to beat the guy, oh wait he was beaten to a pulp by Prime.
It's disuqlified as his hammer alone wouldn't have beend able to do this feat, this feat was done by TWO hamemrs not one.
I don't want to discuss your logic, I will stay polite.
Kal-L needed the red sun, but SBP didn't beat Kal-L without the Red Sun.
In the end, when the Sun depowered the three, it was an young man killing an old man, and an adult beating the young man. Or do you think Superman, who previously didn't fare so well against SBP, would have beaten SBP without the Red Sun effect?
The same applies for Kal-L, SBP vs Kal-L is not the same if both have all their powers.
Originally posted by Batman-PrimeYou put up a fight between two kals fighting and feats that were only accomplished due to outside forces during this arc.
It's disuqlified as his hammer alone wouldn't have beend able to do this feat, this feat was done by TWO hamemrs not one.I don't want to discuss your logic, I will stay polite.
Kal-L needed the red sun, but SBP didn't beat Kal-L without the Red Sun.
In the end, when the Sun depowered the three, it was an young man killing an old man, and an adult beating the young man. Or do you think Superman, who previously didn't fare so well against SBP, would have beaten SBP without the Red Sun effect?
The same applies for Kal-L, SBP vs Kal-L is not the same if both have all their powers.
This feat stands and was possible due to the hammers not by any outside forces.
Prime ha dto be depowered to be beaten. He was an uber threat while Kal-l was someone who struggled with Kal-el while Prime easily blew through his hand and has dismissed him before. He doesn't merit his undivided attention. Prime is superior based on feats, similar opponents, etc.
Originally posted by quanchi112
You put up a fight between two kals fighting and feats that were only accomplished due to outside forces during this arc.This feat stands and was possible due to the hammers not by any outside forces.
Prime ha dto be depowered to be beaten. He was an uber threat while Kal-l was someone who struggled with Kal-el while Prime easily blew through his hand and has dismissed him before. He doesn't merit his undivided attention. Prime is superior based on feats, similar opponents, etc.
Read IC and the "this is you life" story again.
Two Hammers > one, simple. Disqualified.
Kal-L, when you read what he says and does, is unlike SBP not in for the kill, he is the hero, truely a good guy. He is still the PC-Superman who is, all in all SBP equal. During the IC he was never hurt by anone except Prime and there he was depowered, just an old man.
Prime has feats (low and high), while Kal-L has very few feats (high-and average)
Originally posted by Batman-PrimeNo, not really. It stands and was felt throughout the entire cosmos. Two superman punching each other can't bring this kind of damage.
Read IC and the "this is you life" story again.Two Hammers > one, simple. Disqualified.
Kal-L, when you read what he says and does, is unlike SBP not in for the kill, he is the hero, truely a good guy. He is still the PC-Superman who is, all in all SBP equal. During the IC he was never hurt by anone except Prime and there he was depowered, just an old man.
Prime has feats (low and high), while Kal-L has very few feats (high-and average)
Thor can also destroy planets with his fists alone and the feats already posted are enough to win this solidly for Thor anyways.
Supes never felt such power as when he gripped his hammer. Remember that.
What low feats does Prime have that suggest Kal-l can beat him?
Originally posted by quanchi112
No, not really. It stands and was felt throughout the entire cosmos. Two superman punching each other can't bring this kind of damage.Thor can also destroy planets with his fists alone and the feats already posted are enough to win this solidly for Thor anyways.
Supes never felt such power as when he gripped his hammer. Remember that.
What low feats does Prime have that suggest Kal-l can beat him?
Yes, really.
I don't think so. Superman takes this.
He never felt such power in a weapon, maybe, and this only because it was magic, remember, magic is to superman like it is to other people, he is still superman but he feel the magic different.
He never stated that he never felt such a power cursing through him.
So we can't tell for sure.
Never felt so much mystic energy inside a weapon...
Never would have guessed that magic is that powerful...
The magic works differen't in both universes btw.
Though it's doubful he meant that he never felt such a power, though magical, in him. Considering his feats 😉. IMO he was astonished that Thor wielded such a powerful magical weapon and still performed so bad. He was quite weak during the time.
I knwo your interpretation of this even is differen't more in thor's favour, though I do think yours is wrong.
Originally posted by Batman-PrimeThor's hammer is magical. If it wasn't it would break off against Glads face or the Hulk's hide. Another clear example of a biased poster wanting to take away it's very properties.
Yes, really.I don't think so. Superman takes this.
He never felt such power in a weapon, maybe, and this only because it was magic, remember, magic is to superman like it is to other people, he is still superman but he feel the magic different.
He never stated that he never felt such a power cursing through him.
So we can't tell for sure.
Never felt so much mystic energy inside a weapon...
Never would have guessed that magic is that powerful...
The magic works differen't in both universes btw.
Though it's doubful he meant that he never felt such a power, though magical, in him. Considering his feats 😉. IMO he was astonished that Thor wielded such a powerful magical weapon and still performed so bad. He was quite weak during the time.I knwo your interpretation of this even is differen't more in thor's favour, though I do think yours is wrong.
The manner in which you haven't named a single feat to surpass the Thor feats in this very thread are further proof of your fanatical views. You also earlier claimed it's which ever character you prefer and it's a draw. Now it isn't because you're upset Thor has the more impressive showings. Supes even stated I have never felt such power before. This means if we take him literally it's more powerful than when he was sundipped as it happened before this.
Thor's hammer is more powerful than a sundipped Superman uness you think he's a liar.
Originally posted by quanchi112
Thor's hammer is magical. If it wasn't it would break off against Glads face or the Hulk's hide. Another clear example of a biased poster wanting to take away it's very properties.The manner in which you haven't named a single feat to surpass the Thor feats in this very thread are further proof of your fanatical views. You also earlier claimed it's which ever character you prefer and it's a draw. Now it isn't because you're upset Thor has the more impressive showings. Supes even stated I have never felt such power before. This means if we take him literally it's more powerful than when he was sundipped as it happened before this.
Thor's hammer is more powerful than a sundipped Superman uness you think he's a liar.
Calm down Quan 😂
I don't deny it's magical properties. And it isn't biased to point out that the feat couldn't and wasn't accomplished by one hammer alone.
I have named you feats that surprass them. You just keep to ignore them 🙂
As for fanatical views, well from you... forget it, though you make it really difficult to stay polite.
Thor's showings aren't more impressive, IMHO.
Superman stated. "That Power. Never felt so... never would have guessed."
Nothing implies that he never felt such a raw power inside of him BEFORE. Magical or otherwise. BTW, it was probably my interpretation as he beat thor without a sundip, which would be, with your interpretation completly impossible 😉. So he was astonished about the weapon's power as he wouldn't guess that it's stored inside it. He never felt so much power in a magical weapon. Point.
Originally posted by Batman-PrimeYou just tried ignoring it's mystical properties. I am calm.
Calm down Quan 😂I don't deny it's magical properties. And it isn't biased to point out that the feat couldn't and wasn't accomplished by one hammer alone.
I have named you feats that surprass them. You just keep to ignore them 🙂
As for fanatical views, well from you... forget it, though you make it really difficult to stay polite.
Thor's showings aren't more impressive, IMHO.
Superman stated. "That Power. Never felt so... never would have guessed."
Nothing implies that he never felt such a raw power inside of him BEFORE. Magical or otherwise. BTW, it was probably my interpretation as he beat thor without a sundip, which would be, with your interpretation completly impossible 😉. So he was astonished about the weapon's power as he wouldn't guess that it's stored inside it. He never felt so much power in a magical weapon. Point.
Which feat did you name that Superman has accomplished that Thor hasn't surpassed?
Thor also didn't use his more exotic/powerful abilities such as life/essence drain/Durok blast, godblast, anti matter blast.
Superman literally freaked out when he felt the raw power of just his hammer not what it's capable of in Thor's hands.
When did he say anything about it being magical in nature?
Name me some examples of Superman's feats that compare with Thor's. You keep dodging.
Originally posted by Batman-PrimeYour logic is ironic. Because you shouldn't hold out the Infinite Crisis feat as being relevant either. Because:
Read IC and the "this is you life" story again.Two Hammers > one, simple. Disqualified.
Two Supermans > one, simple. Disqualified.
Don't recall Superman ever punching anything else other than Superman-2 and causing such effects. And in all fairness, you should credit in some part, the Masterson Thor vs. Dargo Thor feat because (i) the entire Marvel Multiverse wasn't in flux, and (ii) they weren't fighting on an incomplete Marvel Earth.
