What does Woverine have to do?

Originally posted by roughrider
Just like Hulk seems to job to Logan, Marvel makes Logan job to the Punisher.

it simply not comparable.

Originally posted by roughrider
They have to, because there's no reason why Logan, with thousands of death notches on his claws, should be unable to put Frank in the ground. But under Garth Ennis, Frank puts Logan down with a baseball strike in the nuts, blows his face off with a shotgun, and rolls over him with a steamroller.
Generally surviving an encounter with Logan is the same as winning, if you're non powered.

This is even worse, your using a single showing of punisher, compared with wolverine vast history with Hulk and brick characters, it not even closes to comparable.

Whats worse is your talking about ennis......guy who has straight up stated he hates super powered hero's and is bias against them. He also in that story had wolverine attack by a bunch of midgets trying to take off his legs.......issue was joke like most of ennis stuff.....hell ennis had punisher put spiderman in a headlock before if not mistaken......using ennis as some sort of evidence is absurd. Not to mention in the issue Punisher states he got lucky to even survive the encounter. Also Wolverine never was trying to kill him, and Punisher used plot devices and sucker attacks.......

Originally posted by -Pr-
if logan sets an example, it's the "don't give up no matter what" kind of thing, but even then there are other people who do it.

both?

Well on the boards it would hardly matter, Logan is consider an idiot and people think jublee a better leader then him.

Cyclopes is the better super hero leader for sure. He seems to thrive off it. If Logan held an advantage in any type of leadership it be special opts type, due to the fact he has decades of experiences leading such assaults and his character is cater made for thoses type of mission.

Scot is all all round better leader, and few by the super human community as such.

Originally posted by Battlehammer
So what type of example does cyclopes send? You seem from your statement to believe cyclopes example is that of one no one elese sets. you really think that wolverines entire role as a leader........

Well on the boards it would hardly matter, Logan is consider an idiot and people think jublee a better leader then him.

Cyclopes is the better super hero leader for sure. He seems to thrive off it. If Logan held an advantage in any type of leadership it be special opts type, due to the fact he has decades of experiences leading such assaults and his character is cater made for thoses type of mission.

Scot is all all round better leader, and few by the super human community as such.

his role as leader is to command. it's to gain the respect of those around him by being a good leader. he's not a guy that people like, but he used to be the guy that embodied the "don't kill to achieve our goals" and the like. he was xavier's right hand.

logan fills a different (though no less important) role on the team.

😂 well, jubilee aint bad.

i just think that leading any sort of unit, cyclops is superior. logan seems so much better at being allowed to run free and do his own thing. giving orders has just never struck me as being his strong suit. he's that star player that you don't tell what to do, cos you know that when he's really needed, he'll do what's required of him. he's just never going to be team captain, if that makes any sense.

Originally posted by Battlehammer
Hulk does not jobb to wolverine. It not even similar. Wolverine was originally designed as a Hulk villain. He designed to give Hulk like characters hell. He wont beat the Hulk, but he put up a fight and make Hulk work for it, which is what he designed to do. It far different then Punisher and Wolverine. Punisher not desgned to fight wolverine like characters, nor has punisher fought wolverine 14 plus times, like wolverine has fought the hulk. Nor did punisher first apearance a villain of wolverines.

it simply not comparable.

This is even worse, your using a single showing of punisher, compared with wolverine vast history with Hulk and brick characters, it not even closes to comparable.

Whats worse is your talking about ennis......guy who has straight up stated he hates super powered hero's and is bias against them. He also in that story had wolverine attack by a bunch of midgets trying to take off his legs.......issue was joke like most of ennis stuff.....hell ennis had punisher put spiderman in a headlock before if not mistaken......using ennis as some sort of evidence is absurd. Not to mention in the issue Punisher states he got lucky to even survive the encounter. Also Wolverine never was trying to kill him, and Punisher used plot devices and sucker attacks.......

You know when Hulk didn't job to Wolverine, was during World War Hulk. Even holding off a couple dozen X-Men, Hulk just mercilessly pounded Logan's brain into mush, and Logan was out of it for the rest of the issue. So much for being an anti-brick in that fight.

And the Punisher also held his own against Logan in their very first meeting in 1989, in Punisher War Journal (under Carl Potts & Jim Lee.)
Neither had even met the other before, and Logan was out to kill Frank - mistaking him for a brutal poacher in Africa - but he was unable to due to Frank's quick resourcefulness. The conflict went on into the next issue until they both realized they ere on the same side.

Originally posted by roughrider
You know when Hulk didn't job to Wolverine, was during World War Hulk. Even holding off a couple dozen X-Men, Hulk just mercilessly pounded Logan's brain into mush,

Wolverine fought Hulk separately actually, and Hulk stated they could go on all day. The difference there was Hulk was not only the most powerful he been, but also possesed a tactical mind, and new Logan would try the same move his clone did. To pretend like Hulk job in the other fights is simply wrong. The other Hulks did not posses his power nor his tactical prowesses, which is what emblem him to take Logan like such. Also find this funny since Logan did better and lasted longer then almost anyone including many bricks who fought WWH.

Originally posted by roughrider

and Logan was out of it for the rest of the issue.

He even attempts to fight Hulk in the next issue, but his brain had not completely healed yet.

Originally posted by roughrider
So much for being an anti-brick in that fight.

Actaully he showed just why he an anti-brick he was able to take more punishment then most anyone who had fought WWH to that point. Hulks not a simple brick, he posses a massive healing factor. Logan can't beat Hulk because of this, but he can give him a fight for a bit. If another brick tried that stunt they would have lost the uses of there arm, if it was not for hulk healing factor and bulk he could never had achieve such a tactic.

Originally posted by roughrider

And the Punisher also held his own against Logan in their very first meeting in 1989, in Punisher War Journal (under Carl Potts & Jim Lee.)
Neither had even met the other before, and Logan was out to kill Frank - mistaking him for a brutal poacher in Africa - but he was unable to due to Frank's quick resourcefulness. The conflict went on into the next issue until they both realized they ere on the same side.

As for the fight you are speaking off, Logan was shot prior to the engagement and the enagagement last for 3 pannels, but thanks for trying to play it off like punisher did some amazing thing.

I mean clearly Logan can't take it to bricks he only beaten herc once, stalemated Namor (who stated he bee unable to beat him if Logan was not mind controlled), then beat namor, then dropped namor twice in there next fight and took down his elite guard, he also made short work of tiger shark, beaten rough-house several times, damage Thing face so badly he wore mask for a long time and had him dead to rights, Then in another fight took Thing down in 5 pannels easily, He beaten Ba'al, Taken down wendigo and taken it to wendigo several times, taken down grey hulk, fought hulk 14 times or more, stalemated death head twice, stalemated ghost rider twice, stalemated vengeance, beat the crap out of abomination in a few pannels, one shotted Arkon, taken it to thor though not sure if thats cannon, beat the crap out of crusader, takes geneticall enahnced ape stronger then doc samson, takes down domina ect

Originally posted by Badabing
Most popular street level and low meta level characters do well against higher tiers. It's just the way it is. Bat's, who is one of my favorites, has put down Grundy, Captain Marvel and made DS bleed. I wouldn't consider those feats "right" given power sets but it's happened.

Wolverine has had several bad moments the past 2+ years. Namor, WWH and Skaar more recently. Rulk tossed him miles away last month. But he makes Marvel a lot of money. Of course he'll have high showings.

I just think people need to be more reasonable in the vs forum. Wolverine probably gets more hate than any other character.

Originally posted by Battlehammer
I mean clearly Logan can't take it to bricks he only beaten herc once, stalemated Namor (who stated he bee unable to beat him if Logan was not mind controlled), then beat namor, then dropped namor twice in there next fight and took down his elite guard, he also made short work of tiger shark, beaten rough-house several times, damage Thing face so badly he wore mask for a long time and had him dead to rights, Then in another fight took Thing down in 5 pannels easily, He beaten Ba'al, Taken down wendigo and taken it to wendigo several times, taken down grey hulk, fought hulk 14 times or more, stalemated death head twice, stalemated ghost rider twice, stalemated vengeance, beat the crap out of abomination in a few pannels, one shotted Arkon, taken it to thor though not sure if thats cannon, beat the crap out of crusader, takes geneticall enahnced ape stronger then doc samson, takes down domina ect

question. how many of those were outside of wolverine's own books?

Originally posted by -Pr-
question. how many of those were outside of wolverine's own books?

Originally posted by Battlehammer
quite a few actually. Not sure why it matters though, it not one time showing or two time showing there 14 plus examples of hulk alone let a lone many other characters. I left off quite a few as well. really dont get the problem people have with him taking bricks.

it's just the way it tends to be. in your own book you always do better than you do in other people's, unless you're someone like superman or thor (usually, anyways).

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
But there is a correlation between the fans and how a character is treated on the forum. Someone was arguing Wolverine stands a chance against Lobo in a couple of threads. 🙁

I disagree, it not always the cases. People were shitting on Wolverine before the idiot comments came out from people back in the day. He was generally dislike on the forum from day one. I mean I am astounded he come this far, back few years ago the majority of the board had every street leveler there was beating him. If you even thought about saying he could take a brick you be shitted on by countless people. I remeber people had a thread were he was not even ranked like top 15 in skill on the x-men team alone this was not one person it was majority of people. Deathstroke was praised on the board. Now though wolverine still disliked widely by many members at least they have grudgingly accepted that he lot higher then he was given credit back in the day on here. It funny to becuase Death stroke praises has dropped and he no longer "unbeatable" of his level. Most of the crap about him got straighten out, lot of it turned out to be non cannon feats people passed as normal reality and so on.

Lobo comments I am assuming are from a long time ago. Or a sock who purposely screwing with people.

Originally posted by -Pr-
it's just the way it tends to be. in your own book you always do better than you do in other people's, unless you're someone like superman or thor (usually, anyways).

Originally posted by Battlehammer
True, but to be honest wolverine done a lot better in other books lately, his own books he been beat on.

it's just say, for example: logan fights namor in namor's book, and gets soundly beaten, and yet you're saying namor doesn't think he could beat logan.

or how about when he does so well against rulk, yet in wwh, hulk beats him handily enough.

and then there's THAT thor comic.

it's a lack of consistency. i mean, people are painting him as some kind of kryptonite to bricks now, when i don't know where that's come from.

Originally posted by Battlehammer
I disagree, it not always the cases. People were shitting on Wolverine before the idiot comments came out from people back in the day. He was generally dislike on the forum from day one. I mean I am astounded he come this far, back few years ago the majority of the board had every street leveler there was beating him. If you even thought about saying he could take a brick you be shitted on by countless people. I remeber people had a thread were he was not even ranked like top 15 in skill on the x-men team alone this was not one person it was majority of people. Deathstroke was praised on the board. Now though wolverine still disliked widely by many members at least they have grudgingly accepted that he lot higher then he was given credit back in the day on here. It funny to becuase Death stroke praises has dropped and he no longer "unbeatable" of his level. Most of the crap about him got straighten out, lot of it turned out to be non cannon feats people passed as normal reality and so on.

Lobo comments I am assuming are from a long time ago. Or a sock who purposely screwing with people.

Yea DS was praised on the board against Flash though, Doom was overrated too. But back then people went by stats more and older feats and Wolverine was a enhanced/peak human who was fast and tough. Over time he's been said to be faster than Spiderman, high ton strength, more agile, etc etc etc. He has had some high end feats more recently though.

There are people who argued Wolverine in a Venom suit against Superman, that actually makes the character worse. I never saw a Cap vs Godzilla thread, and if there was it didn't last long. Batman was never assumed to beat any high end without "prep", those threads never lasted long. Any thread with Wolverine curbstomp or not has to go at least 10 pages. Then on top of that his name appears in thread where he has nothing to do with or is even related to any character, like Batman vs Lizard. Many of his supporters have also bashed many members and *unfortunately* have a reputation for lack of diction.

I'd say the supporters get the burn. Though I see what you mean. TMNT and SF were underrated. SF was underrated especially in Games vs back in 05 when I first showed up, now they are respected, but you do have haters because of it. Sure there were some SF fanboys but overall the characters had the feat to back them up and the vast majority of the fanboys (except 1) weren't obnoxious or fit into the category of "Wolverneiiine wns upac jp 1111" Which is where the reputation comes from.

Originally posted by -Pr-
it's just say, for example: logan fights namor in namor's book, and gets soundly beaten, and yet you're saying namor doesn't think he could beat logan.

or how about when he does so well against rulk, yet in wwh, hulk beats him handily enough.

and then there's THAT thor comic.

it's a lack of consistency. i mean, people are painting him as some kind of kryptonite to bricks now, when i don't know where that's come from.

WWH has a fast healing factor much faster then Red Hulk. Abilities make fights. WWH vast healing factor made it easier to take wolverine out who also by the way put up one of the best fights out of msot characters who face him. Red Hulk has a far slower healing factor which is why wolverien gave him trouble, however he posses greater base level strength and durability then WWH.

Yea.

It not a lack of consistency. Wolverine pretty dam consistent with the characters he beats. Namor getting an advantage one time out of 6 is far more consistent then many matches between two hero's which tend to go back and forth. Wolverine always been good against bricks. It not something new, you simply dont read him requirely. He extremely effective verse one demensional bricks. If they lack a extremely powerful healing factor and are melee orient it his bread and butter.

Originally posted by Battlehammer
But he hasent. In a neutral book they had Namor saying he was not able to take wolverine if he was not mind controlled. Then in invadar book which is namor book he got beat by Wolverine, then in wolverine book he got beat on dropped twice on land and wolverien got the better in toney suit in the water. two seperate issues. Then in Namor book they fought, namor had to run for water. He came through the ground and surprized wolverine. So you have like 5 fights to 1.

WWH has a fast healing factor much faster then Red Hulk. Abilities make fights. WWH vast healing factor made it easier to take wolverine out who also by the way put up one of the best fights out of msot characters who face him. Red Hulk has a far slower healing factor which is why wolverien gave him trouble, however he posses greater base level strength and durability then WWH.

Yea.

It not a lack of consistency. Wolverine pretty dam consistent with the characters he beats. Namor getting an advantage one time out of 6 is far more consistent then many matches between two hero's which tend to go back and forth. Wolverine always been good against bricks. It not something new, you simply dont read him requirely. He extremely effective verse one demensional bricks. If they lack a extremely powerful healing factor and are melee orient it his bread and butter.

neutral book? which one? invaders? as in, set in the 60s? yes, a wolverine book, which illustrates my point. in namor's book, he told logan he didn't want to fight, yet logan insisted, and got beaten.

in wwh, logan got smooshed, even when he was given ten times the respect and writing that almost everyone else got.

and i disagree. i read him plenty, just not his solo books where all these feats seem to happen. why aren't there more of them in x-books rather than his books?

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
Nope Lobo comments were recent. A lot of people like Wolverine. I love his team ups with Spiderman, (I love how in the New Avengers he says he has a kid and Spiderman is like, "You've had sex?" He's quite popular but so many people have supported him in so many ridiculous threads. Iceman, Godzilla, Metallo, etc. He doesn't have an auto win against a brick, he does well against them.

Thoses thread are mad old.

Depends on the brick to be honest, any brick with real invalnerability, high end healing factor, superior combat speed or powerful range powers either shit stomp him or he puts up a fight but has no chances of winning. However people like Thing, Ares ect. There costume made for more to beat espcially thing.

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
Yea DS was praised on the board against Flash though, Doom was overrated too. But back then people went by stats more and older feats and Wolverine was a enhanced/peak human who was fast and tough. Over time he's been said to be faster than Spiderman, high ton strength, more agile, etc etc etc. He has had some high end feats more recently though.

Wolverine was always said on the boards to be peak-human back then, which never made any senses, he never was onces even hinted as being so in the comics. Actaully it not recently, a lot of his best physical feats are from back in the day.

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
There are people who argued Wolverine in a Venom suit against Superman, that actually makes the character worse. I never saw a Cap vs Godzilla thread, and if there was it didn't last long. Batman was never assumed to beat any high end without "prep", those threads never lasted long. Any thread with Wolverine curbstomp or not has to go at least 10 pages. Then on top of that his name appears in thread where he has nothing to do with or is even related to any character, like Batman vs Lizard. Many of his supporters have also bashed many members and *unfortunately* have a reputation for lack of diction.

Batman vs Lizard thread another perfect example. Again wolverine fan never brought that up, though if you are one and you respond to correct them, you automatically get blamed for bringing him up yet you dident. 85% of the time wolverine threads is brought up by a non fan, and the rediculous thread being created arnt by fan either.

They bash becuase they been bash repeatedly over and over. Yet one there being bash it ok, but as soon as they say something there the bad guys. The shit been going on forever. People jump on there ban wagons, and pretend there the inncosent ones when infact they been trolling or bashing the fan. sure bashing others is not the way to go about it, but it gets tireing been trolled/bashed/even worse when you have to repeat the same shit to same person 50 times every thread. Be sides very recently I barely evenen went into threads only to say a comment or two. There a reason me/srank/jinzin are barley in threads anymore. asside from mainly the last two days for me becuase I bored as hell writing my paper.

Originally posted by Tha C-Master

I'd say the supporters get the burn. Though I see what you mean. TMNT and SF were underrated. SF was underrated especially in Games vs back in 05 when I first showed up, now they are respected, but you do have haters because of it. Sure there were some SF fanboys but overall the characters had the feat to back them up and the vast majority of the fanboys (except 1) weren't obnoxious or fit into the category of "Wolverneiiine wns upac jp 1111" Which is where the reputation comes from.

God I hate that "wolverine wns kduie" crap it annoying. It the best when your debating and bring forth prove, scans issues numbers and people respond to you like that......... it utterly annoying. what worse is when people complain about all the wolverine fans when there litterally 4 on the board that support him well now five.

People need to patention most of these threads and "wolverine fans" are sock ****ing with people, or people baiting others, or simply making stupid thread.

Shit I can't even remeber the last wolverine thread I saw a wolverine supporter asside from carver make

Originally posted by -Pr-
neutral book? which one? invaders? as in, set in the 60s? yes, a wolverine book, which illustrates my point. in namor's book, he told logan he didn't want to fight, yet logan insisted, and got beaten.

Actaully I dident illustrate your point. The first fight was neutral book. second one was invader book which was namor team meaning namor book. third and fourth were during civil war. Last was namor book. Actaully he originally sucker punched Logan. Then Logan sucker him, he ran into the water. Which is a plot device and attacked logan from underground. The fight was stopped after Namor through him to the ground.

so nuetral book had a draw but implied wolverine would win with out mind controll

Namor team book, invaders had wolverine win

then wolverine book had him winning

then namor book had very circumstancial fight inwhich namor had the advantage.

i

Originally posted by -Pr-
n wwh, logan got smooshed, even when he was given ten times the respect and writing that almost everyone else got.

i

Originally posted by -Pr-
and i disagree. i read him plenty, just not his solo books where all these feats seem to happen. why aren't there more of them in x-books rather than his books?

oh and wolverine took it the red hulk is Hulk own run.
He also recently beat the shit out of deathstrike and who ever has pylocke body in uncanny x-men.
In astonishing x-men he blocked lasers with his claws.
He did pretty dam good vs omega red in uncanny x-men, better then he does in his solo.
New avenger he took down thunderball in an awosome fashion, using him a s a shield, he also has ahve his torso blown away then this crazy ass magic happen and he was the first one up and the only one not to fall.

I think it funny you assume Logan so much better in his book and that it some sorta bias sinces it his own run and thats were all his feats come from. You might want to actaully read his runs......

Originally posted by Battlehammer
marvel comic presents, it was there first fight. Nope the invader book was set in the present.

Actaully I dident illustrate your point. The first fight was neutral book. second one was invader book which was namor team meaning namor book. third and fourth were during civil war. Last was namor book. Actaully he originally sucker punched Logan. Then Logan sucker him, he ran into the water. Which is a plot device and attacked logan from underground. The fight was stopped after Namor through him to the ground.

so nuetral book had a draw but implied wolverine would win with out mind controll

you did, but not for the same reasons you think i said you did.

implying isn't exactly proof, is it?

Namor team book, invaders had wolverine win

then wolverine book had him winning

then namor book had very circumstancial fight inwhich namor had the advantage.

ok, i didn't read invaders so i'll take your word for it.

i don't agree about the namor book. namor looked superior to me.

how about someone else, like, hercules. people are saying he should beat hercules. seriously? or ares?

i've even see people arguing for logan against THOR, and he's not even a brick.

i
He literally foughten hulk more then any other hero. He got beat sure, but he did a lot better then most everyone elese.

that's my point. in a PIS riddled mess of a book where they make pretty much every other x-man look bad, logan still gets to do well simply because of his status.

i
There are plenty in x-men books, not so much recently due to him not beeing a central figure anymore. Main reason is logan takena back seat in x-men for quite awhile he barly in it or says anything. Also how is wolverine suposes to have one on one fights in x-men books were he surrounded by a team. I know you want to some how discredit his consistent feats against brick character, but pretending like they dont matter becuase they happen in his book is just wrong.

i'm not trying to discredit anything. i just want to see it fair across the board, so don't take it as some sort of vendetta.

i simply want marvel to either put their money where their mouth is, or stop f*cking around.

oh and wolverine took it the red hulk is Hulk own run.

exactly. the same run in which rulk beat surfer, a watcher, hulk, and thor. and yet he has trouble with wolverine. does that not show some sort of silliness on marvel's part?

He also recently beat the shit out of deathstrike and who ever has pylocke body in uncanny x-men.
In astonishing x-men he blocked lasers with his claws.
He did pretty dam good vs omega red in uncanny x-men, better then he does in his solo.

i don't consider omega red a brick, but yeah, he did well.

Originally posted by -Pr-
you did, but not for the same reasons you think i said you did.

implying isn't exactly proof, is it?

Originally posted by -Pr-
ok, i didn't read invaders so i'll take your word for it.

i don't agree about the namor book. namor looked superior to me.

Namor looked better that book, hardly makes it inconsistent. 5 to 1 pretty dam consistent, not to mention he had to uses water to gain an advantage. water also increases his powers and heals his wounds.

Originally posted by -Pr-
how about someone else, like, hercules. people are saying he should beat hercules. seriously? or ares?

Oh god please dont tell me your one of thoses title guys, were becuase he a god that means he automatically wins or uber. Ares feats arnt good, he low end durbaility and strength for a ehavy hitter and he also not as skilled as the name would imply. Wolverine dam sure should and would beat him.

Originally posted by -Pr-
i've even see people arguing for logan against THOR, and he's not even a brick.

Originally posted by -Pr-
that's my point. in a PIS riddled mess of a book where they make pretty much every other x-man look bad, logan still gets to do well simply because of his status.

Logan still got beat. he also had one of the longest runnign rivaleries with Hulk, not no surprize he fights him one on one. Colossus did good as well. Wolverine claws give him the ability to damage Hulk while his healing factor lets him bang for awhile, not big surprize him and colossus were able to handle them selfs the longest since they both have the best damage soak of the team.

your mad about cyclopes lol

Originally posted by -Pr-
i'm not trying to discredit anything. i just want to see it fair across the board, so don't take it as some sort of vendetta.

I dont think your intentially doing it, it just sounds that way.

Originally posted by -Pr-
exactly. the same run in which rulk beat surfer, a watcher, hulk, and thor. and yet he has trouble with wolverine. does that not show some sort of silliness on marvel's part?

Originally posted by -Pr-

i don't consider omega red a brick, but yeah, he did well.

Your not going to find many wolverine vs brick fights in x-men comics, becuase the fact is be lame fight if entire x-men team attack one brick lol.

though wolverien has fought hulk 3 times in x-men stories, he also fought wendigo twice I believe in x-men stories. He also in alpha flight stories fought wendigo a few times, and also in a spiderman story.