Cyclops vs Namor

Originally posted by -Pr-
its been a while since i read it, but iirc nate and joseph cracked it, then cyclops made a hole that thor made larger.

* pr's right... here's the scan:

* re: hulk... cyke said he's going to max power:

* it's really incorrect based on more consistent showings of his maximum power... maybe the writer made wrong choice of words because cyke still has his visor on... maybe it was supposed to mean that he would adjust his visor to pour out a wide-angle blast just like what was shown...

* bah! it's was really not full power in my book... and by stating cyke was able to dish out unlimited amount of energy, it means that if he blasts namor continously, namor's not going to close their distance, thus cyke winning the match... just my two cents... 😉

lol, Hulk walked through a Black Bolt attack, lets ignore that event

Originally posted by redhotrash
lol, Hulk walked through a Black Bolt attack, lets ignore that event

* isn't that a skrull BB? 😕 anyway, just my two cents, Hulk might be able to endure the pain of the full-powered optic blast but i doubt he can withstand the force... he should be knocked back or even thrown back... just my opinion... and a carefully-placed optic blast in Hulk's temple or jaw might even KO him... i mean, hey, a pure concussive unlimited force with the strength to punch hole to a mountain and level a forest, i think it's possible... much moreso to Namor...

* just like what happened here:

* yeah, it's not comic but i hope you get my point... after that, Juggy got back, walked through the blast and clenched Cyke's face with his hand iirc... but he was thrown back at first, that's my point... 😄

Just my two cents in my familiar Cyclops advocate role:

- Someone asked a while back in this thread when Cyke got a power upgrade. There is one definite time in canon, and that is when Cyke comes back from Krakoa (so UXM #94 or so) and his powers return. His blasts are so powerful compared to before that he can't control his balance and the force of the beams send him flying backwards. His visor was re-modified to the fatter version he had throughout all of Claremont's run. Which, if we're being picky, seems to get retconned in Morrison's run, where Grant decides to give Cyke a thinner visor again.

- Cyke consistently shows much more power in his blasts at around the start of X-Factor (ie. in the 1980s). Kudos to pr for identifying this period. If anyone ever has the time to read all 70+ issues of the original team's run, you'll see how much the team rely on Cyke's blasts to keep them going. For one thing, he "kills" Apocalypse with them, which is a pretty high end feat IMO.

- Although it's never been explicitly stated, i really don't think Cyclops needs that much sunlight to maintain his blasts. It kind of got retconned in the official MU Handbooks, where they stated his blasts were extradimensional energy. To be honest, although Cyke has looked pooped when blasting WWH (or Green Scar), that's the only time in some 20 odd years he's looked fatigued using his blasts. My guess (and it's only a guess) is that Cyke has matured a bit and physically become stronger - hence he can maintain his output a lot more easily. It's akin to Colossus growing up in the comics and increasing his strength over the years.

- Without the visor, Cyke's blasts defintiely have a massive radius increase, and i'd agree with previous posters that his most powerful blasts have all been with his visor off. So IMO, visorless blast > visored blast (in terms of concussive force). This is just my opinion though.

- Someone asked about what he did in Unlimited X-Men #1. Where he appeared to be fixing the hull of the Blackbird. I always thought the focussed force through his shard of rubyquartz hammered the metal back into place - he controlled the intensity to make his blasts "malleable", as opposed to simply blowing a new hole in the hull.

- I also feel that his blasts ARE psionically controlled - as stated, there are many instances where he fires without touching his hands to his head, and also with his hands on show and not clenched. Hell, there are even issues where he seems to be able to fire through his glasses without removing them! Take the most recent UXM as an example of this. Or check out the Cyclops respect thread to see him fire without using his hands at all.

- Just how powerful are Cyke's blasts? I'd say in terms of pure punching force, when he goes all out, they are comparable to the big-hitters in the MU. For example, is Colossus' hardest punch more powerful than Cyke's most powerful blast (ooohhh....that's an idea for a thread)? Difficult to say. At best, Cyke's blasts have been quoted as being able to pulverise adamantium (see UXM X-Cutioner's Song). At worst, they hardly dent a Sentinel.

- Just how fast are they? At best, they've been quoted as speed of light. I wholeheartedly agree though that he's missed plenty of shots in his time too.

^^^ What do these two examples show? IMO, it shows how wildly inconsistent comic book writing can be.

- Can they KO Namor? To be honest, i don't know enough about the guy to make a comment. I'm not even going to debate this particular fight. All i can do is tell you all about how powerful Cyke is, and then the decision comes to you! For whatever reason, he's my fave MU character and as such, i do know *a bit* about him! 🙂

* you know a lot well, my humble friend... 🙂

Namor wins.

Here's the problem with the max power argument...
Cyclops say it was max power and you guys are saying it's not because he didn't take off his visor...

In that case... Even though darkseid says he used the omega effect on superman... It can't have been the omega effect because if it was... Superman would be gone.

You can't have it both ways... If cyclops says it was max power... I accept it as it is.

* the problem with that, is that in more consistent showings, Cyke removes his visor to unleash his full power... but in the WWH arc, eventhough he said it, he did not remove his visor... i speculate that what he means was, he was going to maximize or adjust his visor to it's fullest potential, that might be acceptable for me... 😉

Originally posted by rotiart
Here's the problem with the max power argument...
Cyclops say it was max power and you guys are saying it's not because he didn't take off his visor...

In that case... Even though darkseid says he used the omega effect on superman... It can't have been the omega effect because if it was... Superman would be gone.

You can't have it both ways... If cyclops says it was max power... I accept it as it is.

that's not actually the same thing.

darkseid doesn't have any part of his costume that stops him from firing a full power blast. Cyclops does, and it's FACTUALLY shown to block a considerable portion of his blast.

common sense comes in to play.

well then.......scott loses, because he is obviously a filthy liar.lol

BTW, doesn't matter............namor either way IMO

* i don't think Namor can withstand the blast Cyke gave to WWH even with his visor on... just my two cents... 🙂

namor

Originally posted by peejayd
* i don't think Namor can withstand the blast Cyke gave to WWH even with his visor on... just my two cents... 🙂

1. WWH didn't seem to be too much detered by it.......it "burned" his flesh i guess but you notice that he didn't go backwards or express any vocal signs of pain......like most comics would showcase if they were meaning to emphasize that an attack is really affecting a character. if i would've saw a "AAAAHHH" OR ARRRGGHH" or something, I may have felt differently.

btw, according to my understanding.....isn't hulk's skin more regenrative than durable?

2. namor has withstood cyke beams before.......even shrugged them off

* visorless? 😕

Or rather than saying the writer is wrong.. You can just as easily say the artist rendered the picture wrong... Which is more common sense since cyclops tells us he is going max power and manages to damage the hulk somewhat.

Originally posted by peejayd
* visorless? 😕

Originally posted by -Pr-
that's not actually the same thing.

darkseid doesn't have any part of his costume that stops him from firing a full power blast. Cyclops does, and it's FACTUALLY shown to block a considerable portion of his blast.

common sense comes in to play.

I suppose that's kind of makes sense, although in Christos Gages defence Cyclops has been stated to have gone to max power a few times with his visor on under Stan Lee and Roy Thomas's pen.

In this case it should be noted that it's revealed 4 issues later that Cyclops subconciously weakened his beam so he wouldn't kill Angel. But the point is he still thought he went max with his visor on.

This next case is self explanatory.

Originally posted by ExodusCloak
In this case it should be noted that it's revealed 4 issues later that Cyclops subconciously weakened his beam so he wouldn't kill Angel. But the point is he still thought he went max with his visor on.

This next case is self explanatory.