Kazuya vS Akuma

Originally posted by FistOfThe North
of course. the devil is a type god. and no mortal can defeat a god.

This is fundamentally flawed logic, since ortals have defeated gods all over fiction before.

Feng has never actualy done the feats in any of his endings, so thats moot.

And I'm getting tired of repeating this... Jin and Kazuya didn't shater that glass by the force of their punches.... For crists sake, it was the stompdown that leads into that that caused it, Akuma does this regularly and with far less effort.

Originally posted by SamZED
^Yep. And they didn't even connect. That pretty much was the force of them throwing punches... Training under water is great and all but that's nothing more than an ok durability showing.. Seriously im starting to think that Feng Wei could've sunk that island. Not saying that Kazuya wins, but saying that Akuma is out of his league is wrong. Also if it were Devil Kazuya I'd definitely give him the win.

*Waits for island is >>>>>>>> greater than Tekken volcanic rock in size* 😆

I may regret speaking to a suspected Sock...

The feat is NOT official, it never happened, and Feng has no supporting evidence to back him up, whereas Akuma has at least 3 official endings reguarding his feats, and they are those he actually DID do according to the story.

socks? sigh

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
This is fundamentally flawed logic, since ortals have defeated gods all over fiction before.

Feng has never actualy done the feats in any of his endings, so thats moot.

And I'm getting tired of repeating this... Jin and Kazuya didn't shater that glass by the force of their punches.... For crists sake, it was the stompdown that leads into that that caused it, Akuma does this regularly and with far less effort.

Originally posted by SamZED
Actually it wasn't the stomp, after they throw the second punch it caused the same kind of destruction if you listen to the sound effect and they didn't stomp the ground the second time. Also if it was the stomp they would've crushed through the roof. But I agree about God being more of a title. Still Devil Jin or Devil Kazuya would definitely beat Akuma. Feng has a decent punching feat in his ending, dont see any reason why it wouldn't be non-canon, and even it for some reason it isn't it's still a display of his strength level, kinda like Bryan destroying that tank. Akuma would obviously stomp Feng but he's NOT out of Kazuya's league. Who takes it can be argued.

The 2nd punch led to the title screen Sam.... Please don't try that again... The stompdown caused the tiles to break and the cracks spread from there, not from the punch itself.

Fengs ending is non-canon as it is dependant on him finding the Godfist scrolls, this was later confirmed not to happen anyways, since he never even fought Jinpachi, nor was he even remotely involved with any of the events involving Azazel, so the molten rock thing is also out... The fact is, he never did anything besides kicking Asuka's dad around.

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
The 2nd punch led to the title screen Sam.... Please don't try that again... The stompdown caused the tiles to break and the cracks spread from there, not from the punch itself.

Fengs ending is non-canon as it is dependant on him finding the Godfist scrolls, this was later confirmed not to happen anyways, since he never even fought Jinpachi, nor was he even remotely involved with any of the events involving Azazel, so the molten rock thing is also out... The fact is, he never did anything besides kicking Asuka's dad around.

What does his tekken 6 ending have to do with tekken 5 scrolls? You made a wrong connection here. In tekken 5 he tried to find the scrolls but failed thus the mounting thing was not canon because he used the dragon power (or whatever was that) and that was made clear in the ending. His tekken 6 is a whole different story, there wasn't even hinted that he used the power of the scroll, it was just a random clip of him training and had nothing to do with his failed tekken 5 quest, so this feat is no less canon than Bryan taking that tank apart.

Also saying that Akuma is out of Kaz or Jin's league would be wrong.

Your refferencing Feng's endings, well the moundain was due to the scrolls, and the Tekken 6 ending is non-canon, so it's irrelevant waht it shows.

As for your sound effect argument, your trying desperately to sever the connection bitween the step in and the punch itself, there is no way a missed punch can do that, there is nothing exerting the force into the glass EXEPT the stompdown.

Bryan rippin apart the tank however was confirmed official, thats the difference.

And I never said Akuma was above and beyond Kazuya and Jin, but the difference is EXEEDINGLY obvious... AKuma more often than not would flatten either one of them, even as devils, simply because he has all the attributes needed to do so.

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
Fengs ending is non-canon as it is dependant on him finding the Godfist scrolls, this was later confirmed not to happen anyways, since he never even fought Jinpachi, nor was he even remotely involved with any of the events involving Azazel, so the molten rock thing is also out... The fact is, he never did anything besides kicking Asuka's dad around.

Check Feng's prologue (yes prologues are canon) which confirm he did find the scrolls, which give no power upgrade whatsoever. All they (or, it) were was a sentence telling to dominate every fighting style and make it his or her own. Feng's Tekken 6 ending does not depend on any non-canonically achieved power, just as Bryan's T6 ending displays are from no upgrade and only serves as a showing of what said character can do.

That is why by the way I don't debate forumers like toi, never bothering to check if what he posts originates from his ass or real evidence. 😆

Also, there is no clear evidence if the blows or the stomp did what was shown. Don't see why it matters. It definitely seems like it was the punches, but, no that can't be it, right? 😛

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
Your refferencing Feng's endings, well the moundain was due to the scrolls, and the Tekken 6 ending is non-canon, so it's irrelevant waht it shows.

As for your sound effect argument, your trying desperately to sever the connection bitween the step in and the punch itself, there is no way a missed punch can do that, there is nothing exerting the force into the glass EXEPT the stompdown.

Bryan rippin apart the tank however was confirmed official, thats the difference.

And I never said Akuma was above and beyond Kazuya and Jin, but the difference is EXEEDINGLY obvious... AKuma more often than not would flatten either one of them, even as devils, simply because he has all the attributes needed to do so.

Actually it is you who are desperately trying to downplay the feat because it's a good display of power for Kazuya and Jin and you don't want that so you're arguing the obvious here. Jin and Kazuya throw the punches, it cause the shockwave, then they throw another and there's another shockwave and that is clear from the video, go check it out again. Im not even arguing, simply stating the obvious. Turn on the sound when Kazuya and Jin throw the second punch and see for youself.

What atributes? You said you dont think he's beyong regular Jin or Kazuya but think he'd take them even as Devils? 🤨 Looks like a controdiction to me. He does have a longrange attacks advantage over regular Jin and Kaz, but if it were a Devil Jin I dont see how he stands even a slightest chance. D Jin just puts up a forcefield around himself like he did when he oneshotted Azazel and tk ftw.

Akuma is TK-proof, haven't you heard? Akuma would also shatter that forcefield. We don't know how strong that forcefield is, but it doesn't matter. The fact a certain person is punching it means it's going down.

This post is edited from what it was originally. Now taking an even more non-bias approach:YouTube video

First, click on HD to see clearly, if the HD option is there. Not that it's needed.

Somewhere in the middle of 1:27, a shockwave is clearly emitted and then goes to screw up the windows of the building. The stomp undeniably was before said shockwave was released, although whether or not the shockwave was a result of the stomps or punches (or both) from what I can see is speculation since there's probably a fourth of a second in between the stomps and the punches. Nonetheless, the fact there is a huge gap in the video between the stomps and the punches (as a result of slow motion) seems the producers want us to believe the missed blows caused it. In other words, it could just be their way of saying it was the punches and not the stomps.

It's clear to me the shockwave came from the punches, but it I admit it's a little hard to see from that video, that was the point of my second argument. In the video above the scene goes to a black screen and the result of a second punch isn't known, but the thing is - there's ANOTHER version of the video that was released before this one. The scene also goes to a black screen but the sound of the battle is still ON even though we don't get to see what happens. Here's that part of the video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L6RdMYUI9Fk
From the sound it's 100 % clear that the second punches caused the exact same effect even though they didn't stomp the ground, so it's safe to say it were the punches not the stomps, and imo it's clear from the video.
Case closed, gentlemen. 😎

Yes you have a point there, but the question is now what glass did they break? The glass on the building was already broken due to either the stomp or missed punches or both, so was it the glass already broken that got shattered again? (and the fact people are acting it makes much of a difference is amazing since I can't even say the glass breaking due to missed punches is that much more impressive than it breaking because of stomps Jin and Kazuya made to approach one another 😬) and the fact this is (or may be later on) compared to arguably a full-powered attack by Akuma doing God knows what to an island of fan-speculated size is even more amazing, but I'll not go there this time.

By the way, my post is finalized now. Gotta get going so I can't wait for your reply. Peace.

Oh by the way, I'm asking since I think you're saying the glass-shattering sound is given again after the second punch, so this would imply glass was shattered, AGAIN. So I'm wondering which glass broke this time. It seems to be all the glass was broken already.

By the way, I don't think it's safe using the second punch argument. IIRC those actually CONNECTED, so even if they produced the same effect they are different than the first in that they connected.

The other interesting thing to note is one cannot judge things from appearance alone. For example, Jin jumped in the air and punched the ground. That only managed to crack it. One cannot say well then, his stomp would have the same effect. False. Jin and Kazuya stomping/missing each other's faces screwed a building's exterior. Logical conclusion is that Jin's ground punch was not his best one.

Originally posted by Shutter Control
Yes you have a point there, but the question is now what glass did they break? The glass on the building was already broken due to either the stomp or missed punches or both, so was it the glass already broken that got shattered again? (and the fact people are acting it makes much of a difference is amazing since I can't even say the glass breaking due to missed punches is that much more impressive than it breaking because of stomps Jin and Kazuya made to [b]approach one another 😬) and the fact this is (or may be later on) compared to arguably a full-powered attack by Akuma doing God knows what to an island of fan-speculated size is even more amazing, but I'll not go there this time. [/B]

Originally posted by SamZED
Man, I just don't see how you put one thing to another. How does his tekken 5 ending prove that tekken 6 is not canon? 😕 Asuka's ending in tekken 5 isn't canon, but it doesn't prove that she never fought Lili during tekken 6. Feng's Tekken 5 ending wasn't canon. What was canon is - he found the scroll but it didn't give him any power. His life didn't stop then, he kept fighting training and entered the KOIFT 6. And a clip of him training in tekken 6 is canon, nothing says otherwise. If it showed him beating Azazel or using the power of the scroll you would've been right, but he didn't he was just training and destroyed that boulder under his own power.

He never actually appeared in Tekken 6, just as canonically, Heihachi never appeared in 5. Your trying to chain an event that is not proven to exist. If he where capable of these things, he'd be completely unstoppable because nobody in the entire series has strength anywhere near that high, even Bryan, the one with the highest canon strength feat, would be utterly pulverised by bountain shattering, burning boulder splitting attacks.

Originally posted by SamZED
Actually it is you who are desperately trying to downplay the feat because it's a good display of power for Kazuya and Jin and you don't want that so you're arguing the obvious here. Jin and Kazuya throw the punches, it cause the shockwave, then they throw another and there's another shockwave and that is clear from the video, go check it out again. Im not even arguing, simply stating the obvious. Turn on the sound when Kazuya and Jin throw the second punch and see for youself.

Sam, your sounding bias very badly... I'm not downplaying it, I'm just not going to overzealously say that "Holy shite! their punches missed but look at all that damage!" when it is clear that even landed blows didn't even do that. You guys are too easily impressed. The fat remains, the punches themselves did not cause that damage.

Originally posted by SamZED
What atributes? You said you dont think he's beyong regular Jin or Kazuya but think he'd take them even as Devils? 🤨 Looks like a controdiction to me. He does have a longrange attacks advantage over regular Jin and Kaz, but if it were a Devil Jin I dont see how he stands even a slightest chance. D Jin just puts up a forcefield around himself like he did when he oneshotted Azazel and tk ftw.

There is a few things wrong with this. First, Kazuyas COMLETED Devil in T2 was defeated by Heihachi, this was before the split and one half went to Jin. To say that these Devils are leagues and leagues beyond their human forms is utter luncacy. Examples are everywhere.

For me, Akuma in strict hand to hand against Jin and Kaz id indeed very close, the Devils too. Al 3 fighters are well accomplished, experienced, and very poweful. Akuma does have the overall speed edge, as well as strength and actual precision (Again, fighting against Gen who is a master of pinpoint nerve strikes several times proves this) does give him a sizable edge, and this is before anything to doo with specials/super arts/ultras.

Once we start factoring in Ki control and specials and stuff like that, the gap does tend to increase phenominally, Jin & Kaz in their regular states are well beyond regular humans in that they have abnormal physical endurance and the Mishima Lightning enhancing their physical attacks, but Akuma is an energy breathing monster. Earth shaking with powerups, and stomps, purple flame inducing hits, thrown ki energy attacks, and specials that wipe out anything the Mishima's could do. Dragon Godfist vs Gou Shoryuken, the two comparable moves from the characters involved in the match, the Godfist is powerful, relatively safe, and is Kazuya's trademark. The Gou Shoryuken though, goes higher, does relatively good damage, hits multiple times, is in every way faster, and in some cases immolates with purple flames, AND is shitloads safer to use.

Shal I continue to other areas?

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
I may regret speaking to a suspected Sock...

The feat is NOT official, it never happened, and Feng has no supporting evidence to back him up, whereas Akuma has at least 3 official endings reguarding his feats, and they are those he actually DID do according to the story.

Originally posted by No End N Site
Hmmm...I remember that. Plus this weird hatred for DS out of no where...gets me to thinkin'.

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
He never actually appeared in Tekken 6, just as canonically, Heihachi never appeared in 5. Your trying to chain an event that is not proven to exist. If he where capable of these things, he'd be completely unstoppable because nobody in the entire series has strength anywhere near that high, even Bryan, the one with the highest canon strength feat, would be utterly pulverised by bountain shattering, burning boulder splitting attacks.

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero

Sam, your sounding bias very badly... I'm not downplaying it, I'm just not going to overzealously say that "Holy shite! their punches missed but look at all that damage!" when it is clear that even landed blows didn't even do that. You guys are too easily impressed. The fat remains, the punches themselves did not cause that damage.

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero

There is a few things wrong with this. First, Kazuyas COMLETED Devil in T2 was defeated by Heihachi, this was before the split and one half went to Jin. To say that these Devils are leagues and leagues beyond their human forms is utter luncacy. Examples are everywhere.

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero

For me, Akuma in strict hand to hand against Jin and Kaz id indeed very close, the Devils too. Al 3 fighters are well accomplished, experienced, and very poweful. Akuma does have the overall speed edge, as well as strength and actual precision (Again, fighting against Gen who is a master of pinpoint nerve strikes several times proves this) does give him a sizable edge, and this is before anything to doo with specials/super arts/ultras.

Once we start factoring in Ki control and specials and stuff like that, the gap does tend to increase phenominally, Jin & Kaz in their regular states are well beyond regular humans in that they have abnormal physical endurance and the Mishima Lightning enhancing their physical attacks, but Akuma is an energy breathing monster. Earth shaking with powerups, and stomps, purple flame inducing hits, thrown ki energy attacks, and specials that wipe out anything the Mishima's could do. Dragon Godfist vs Gou Shoryuken, the two comparable moves from the characters involved in the match, the Godfist is powerful, relatively safe, and is Kazuya's trademark. The Gou Shoryuken though, goes higher, does relatively good damage, hits multiple times, is in every way faster, and in some cases immolates with purple flames, AND is shitloads safer to use.

Shal I continue to other areas?

For now, I'm only posting this tidbit because it's nearly midnight and I'm tired...

Akuma has dealt with TK before, From someone far more ept with it too, in the for of Oro, who moves all kinds of stuff with his mind. And Bison who has all kinds of mental powers... Akuma wasted Bison, and was only really sparring with Oro. He also defeated Gill, who posesses a hugely vast array of wonky powers.